If you look at the tape closely, Artest didn't throw the first punch. He went into the stands and pushed down the guy he thought threw the cup at him. He was restrained by Rick Mahorn on the right, and the ACTUAL guy who threw the cup on the left. A fan throws another beverage at Artest while he's being restrained, and then Jackson comes in and punches that guy right in the face. At that point, the guy who started it all started punching Artest in the back of the head, and THEN Artest turns around delivers a punch. But that punch was clearly provoked and certainly THAT constitutes self-defense. Then Artest quickly got himself out of the stands, but he was approached by another Pistons fan who made it onto the court. Artest swung at him and knocked him to the ground, but it wasn't a clean punch so the guy probably was really hurt. Artest's major mistake was rushing into the stands to begin with and pushing the person he thought threw the beer at him. And he shouldn't have hit the guy on the court, but you could argue that was self-defense.
^ true, he could argue it was self-defense when he punched the guy. but he shouldnt have rushed into the crowd. i feel bad for artest, he was clearly trying to restrain himself from fighting back agains ben but thanks to that stupid piston fan he eventually lost it and went crazy
Well, this is definetely a dark day for basketball, however I am very interested to see how this all plays out at the NBA level. After yesterday, I have sort of a whole new respect for the Pacers. What they showed as a team last night was admirable and any coach you ask would love to see the entire team bond around each other when one of their teammates gets in trouble. Onto the situation, what Wallace did was wrong and I though Artest handled THAT situation pretty well. They calmed him down and he was laying down on the bench controlling himself. Right there the situation should have stopped. Once the fans get involved in a situation, its only bound to escalade. I am a firm beliver that the main cause of last nights fiasco was the lack of action by Pistons security forces. As soon as the Wallace/Artest incident happened, they should have completely surrounded the floor. The fan that threw that beer at Artest should have been immeditetly arrested for assault. Was Artest justified in going into the stands? Yes and No. No in the sense that he is a professional athlete and he should never release his actions towards the fans. However that being said and I didnt pick up on this until Stephen Smith said this, but all the NBA players play with sort of an anger level inside of them from all the BS they get from fans and that they control themselves to make sure it doesnt explode. Its always ready to tip and the beer being thrown at Artest tipped it for him. If someone threw a beer at me, I think I have the right to defend myself. Its obvious that he acted in the heat of the moment(he just got clocked by Wallce). I mean anyone of us would have done what Artest did. However if security had done their job, that should have never happened. When Artest started getting hit by fans again with punches, it was sort of good from a team perspective for the other Pacers to fight back and stick up for their teammates. I dont know about you, but LOYALTY in my opinion is the greatest quality of a team. Loyalty to your teammates is far greater than winning a game. You are like a family and you stick up for each other. It will be very interesting to see what happens with this situation. I think charges should be pressed against the fans who threw the objects and got actually on the court. What Artest did was wrong in a sense however I think it was sort of justified. As I said earlier, if security had done their job, we would be sitting today on JBB talking about the game, not a brawl.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Hunter:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, this is definetely a dark day for basketball, however I am very interested to see how this all plays out at the NBA level. After yesterday, I have sort of a whole new respect for the Pacers. What they showed as a team last night was admirable and any coach you ask would love to see the entire team bond around each other when one of their teammates gets in trouble. </div> Bonding is one thing. Risking the security of themselves and innocent fans(there were innocent fans in the middle of this) is unbelievable. Children were put at risk. [sarcasm] Yes, I respect the Pacers much more now. [/sarcasm] <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Onto the situation, what Wallace did was wrong and I though Artest handled THAT situation pretty well. They calmed him down and he was laying down on the bench controlling himself. Right there the situation should have stopped. </div> Agreed. Wallace overreacted. Artest did the right thing by getting out of the way. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Once the fans get involved in a situation, its only bound to escalade. I am a firm beliver that the main cause of last nights fiasco was the lack of action by Pistons security forces. As soon as the Wallace/Artest incident happened, they should have completely surrounded the floor. The fan that threw that beer at Artest should have been immeditetly arrested for assault. </div> Agreed. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Was Artest justified in going into the stands? Yes and No. No in the sense that he is a professional athlete and he should never release his actions towards the fans. However that being said and I didnt pick up on this until Stephen Smith said this, but all the NBA players play with sort of an anger level inside of them from all the BS they get from fans and that they control themselves to make sure it doesnt explode. Its always ready to tip and the beer being thrown at Artest tipped it for him. </div> No. He hit the wrong guy. He attacked an innocent person. How was that justified? "Built up anger?" That's not an excuse for allowing and tolerating that from Artest. I don't care what Artest had to put up with from the media. His attack on an innocent fan was unwarranted and he deserves a long suspension. Should criminal charges and lawsuits stem from this, Artest opened that can of worms himself, and anything he gets from this is deserved. He is at fault for taking action upon himself. A beer was thrown at him. How was he in danger? Someone threw a plastic cup of beer. He should have waited for security, which was starting to come out. Instead, he took actions into his own hands. Beer was thrown at him. His life was not endangered. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If someone threw a beer at me, I think I have the right to defend myself. Its obvious that he acted in the heat of the moment(he just got clocked by Wallce). I mean anyone of us would have done what Artest did. However if security had done their job, that should have never happened. </div> Maybe so(in regards to security). But I wouldn't have acted the same way. If beer was thrown at me, it wouldn't give me a legitimate reason to beat the shit out of someone. If it did, where does it stop? Someone called me "stupid", so I beat the shit out of him.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> It will be very interesting to see what happens with this situation. I think charges should be pressed against the fans who threw the objects and got actually on the court. What Artest did was wrong in a sense however I think it was sort of justified. </div> Tell that to the fan that was attacked. For laughing. Artest went after the wrong guy, but bec. beer was thrown at him, its justified.
I think that Ben Wallace is the guy that you need to make an example out of in all of this. He started the altercation by overreacting to something that is part of the game. The foul wasn't flagrant, it wasn't malicious, and I suggest that if Big Ben has a problem with inadvertant fouls in the course of a basketball game that he take up a non-contact sport like baseball. Honestly, no reason for him to push Artest the way that he did, it just shows that he's a very sore loser.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AA13:</div><div class="quote_post">Wallace overreacted, getting fouled is part of the game. If he can't handle it he should quit. I even saw Jermaine O'Neal slide on the floor toward a fan and hit him in the face which knocked him out. I have a problem with what you said johnny33. You said a beer isn't going to kill you. This statement is true but if you were a PRO would you just sit threre and let fans chuck beer at you from the stands? This is the highest level of disrespect from anyone. It's almost like saying youre a piedce of dirt. Artest should be fined $10,000 to $25,000 for beating the fans head on the chair. Stephen Jackson should be fined just as much. But Ben Wallace is the one who should be suspended for 30+. He was the one that started the whole thing and was provoking Artest. As for the beer throwing fan he should be arrested along with the chair throwing fan.</div> I see that you are a Shaq-kobe-lebron and t-mac fan. Maybe next time when lebron or kobe are up in the air going for a dunk he(ron) can push them and break their necks. maybe you will see it Ben way. That dumb to say that Ben should be suspended for 30+ Players will alway get into fights but just because you started a fight and something happen doesn't mean it's bens fault because Ron was stupid to go into the stands. Artest should be ban from the NBA before he kills someone.
Does anyone have a pic of that guy's face who firstly threw beer at Artest while he was laying down? I mean that funny pic of him as Artest rushed at him. I'm sorry but there are like 10 threads regarding this brawl and this thread alone has like 16 pages to view lol Thanks in advance
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post"> No. He hit the wrong guy. He attacked an innocent person. How was that justified? "Built up anger?" That's not an excuse for allowing and tolerating that from Artest. I don't care what Artest had to put up with from the media. His attack on an innocent fan was unwarranted and he deserves a long suspension. Should criminal charges and lawsuits stem from this, Artest opened that can of worms himself, and anything he gets from this is deserved. He is at fault for taking action upon himself. A beer was thrown at him. How was he in danger? Someone threw a plastic cup of beer. He should have waited for security, which was starting to come out. Instead, he took actions into his own hands.</div> Yes, he attacked the wrong person, I didnt make it clear in my initial post and while I was eating lunch, and thinking about it, I noticed that. You are correct that the fan he attacked was innocent and that fan who he punched initially will get several million of dollars from this in a lawsuit.(I think they will settle out of court). Do I think Artest should have gone in the stands, absolutely not, however considering what had just happened with Wallace and other fans starting to react I can understand where his motives came from. I remember in the post game interview that Rick Carlistle repeadedly saying how uncomfortable he felt during the entire game from the actions of Pistons crowd. The thing is, security should have already come out. As soon as the Wallace?Artest action happened, they should have surrounded the court. I seriously think it was Security's fault for letting that situation escalate. Regardless, this issue will raise some serious eyebrows amongst the executives at the NBA and the Players Association with regard to how situations regarding this are handled in the future. I was talking to shapecity this morning on AIM, and we pretty much came to the same concensus that the NBA will take their time before handing out the final punishments for these players. Right now they are indefinetly suspended bending further investigation, but considering how political this issue is with the NBA, Players Association and Pacers, this issue will only become more complicated in the next several days or weeks. One game that just got bumped up to probably the most anticipated game of the year now will be 12/25 game where the Pistons play Indiana at Indiana.
I see worse fouls daily in the NBA. That was not even a flagrant or a technichal just a hard foul Im sure a big boy like Wallace can handle getting pushed from the back from time to time
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pistons 4 Sho:</div><div class="quote_post">I see worse fouls daily in the NBA. That was not even a flagrant or a technichal just a hard foul Im sure a big boy like Wallace can handle getting pushed from the back from time to time</div> It wasn't that hard of a foul like Iv'e said before. Wallace just got out of cantrol and blew up. Anyway the punishments only involve Artest, O'Neal, Jackson and Big Benny. They are going to be suspended but they have to wait and finish the investigations before they decide how long.
hey i was wondering if any of u got really good still pics from the brawl..they could be cool for graphics and stuff and by themselves... i looked on yahoo images and theyre alright, gettyimages doesnt have much.. anyone?
I have a few tapes and pics but it will be probably until tomorrow befroe I could post them. Hopefuly this incident will calm down and we can stop ranting on it.
AllNet, could you be anymore pro-Pistons? You are an intelligent poster, but don't let your affiliation with the Pistons get in the way of your common sense. Thank you.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Big Zee:</div><div class="quote_post">AllNet, could you be anymore pro-Pistons? You are an intelligent poster, but don't let your affiliation with the Pistons get in the way of your common sense. Thank you.</div> Show me what I have stated that has been so pro-Pistons? I stated what Ben Wallace did was wrong but he wasn't the one jumping into the crowd and attacking fans. Ben Wallace didn't assult anyone, he lost his cool and let his emotions get the best of him. He's been through a tough week, so obviously he was under alot of stress.
fighting never gets you anywhere but in this case i respect the fact that JO and Sjax helped out their Teammate if it wasn't for Jackson Artest would have been beaten up by the crowd and when a fan goes on the court and starts threating you, punching him seems like a very reasonable thing to do The real disgrace is the behavior of the fans they should be the ones getting the suspensions
I'm so sick and tired of hearing about this brawl.The media has overcovered it,granted it's a big story and all,but the punishments have been given out,and now somethings gonna happen as far as how the NBA Deals with fans & Players because of this.
