Of course it's assumed that Carter is considered a SG. Jefferson is playing small forward so Carter is a shooting guard. It doesn't take a lot to figure that out.
misconception <div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^of course he can work on everything else, but his biggest weakness is his shooting....</div> Really? His shot is a problem? Yes, in his rookie season it was, but now? Last year he was 13th in the league is FG% for non PF/Cs. On the surface that doesnt look that impressive but only 3 were good enough players to be all-stars. The others were just pure-shooters such as Wally Szczerbiak or Mike Miller. His 3-point percentage (35%) though not extraordinary is much better than such highly regarded shooters as Mr. McGrady (32.6%) and Kobe Bryant (33.9%). I dont know where this "craft of his offensive game" crap is coming from. LBJ scored more than McGrady last year (27.2 to 25.7) on less shots per game (21.0 to 21.3). LBJ is also a better passer (7.2 apg to 5.7 apg) and a better rebounder (7.4 to 6.2). <div class="quote_poster">Quoting orlando:</div><div class="quote_post">I respect your opinion schaddy, but even at this point TMac has the edge because he is a BEAST in the playoffs...we have yet to see lebron on the playoff stage so I think the #1 spot rightly belongs to TMac until we see what Lebron can do in May...</div> In last year's 7 game playoff series that TMac was in he average 30.7 / 7.4 / 6.7. Over the last 27 games of the regular season LBJ averaged 30.9 / 7.9 / 6.4. So if he is a "BEAST" for putting up those stats over a 7 game span what does that make LBJ for putting those up over 27 games? Also when looking at McGrady's stats from that series remember that he was playing the Mavericks, a weak defensive team. I think that you can't call anyone a "BEAST" in the playoffs if they can't get their team out of the first round. I would also like to point out that the panel of people that vote for the prestigious all-NBA teams agree with me, LeBron got 3 times as many votes first team as TMac with 45 to Tracy's 15. Overall LBJ had 160 more points than TMac in the voting so according to the 124 knowledgeable writers and broadcasters LBJ is a superior player.
you guys are just riding the bandwagon lebron james is a very talented player he cant take over a game at the level tmac can and does not nearly have the leadership tmac has. of course lebron had better stats in the last couple of games but did they win. NO! tmac can take over the game and lead the team to victory. ex 13 in 35 game 2 of mavs vs rockets tmacs goes for last 8 pts and game winner lebron is certainly going in the right direction with his increasing involvement in getting good players for the cavs and become the leader they need but not at the level tracy mcgrady is. im gonna say this again like i did in my previous post. IF LEBRON JAMES is better than tmac then y cant he lead his team to the playoffs in a conference where a team 2 GAMES OVER .500 makes it when tmac can lead his team to the playoffs with less talented players, older players, and undersized gaurds IN A LEAGUE WITH THE 8TH SEED THAT IS 8 GAMES ABOVE .500 rockets to compliment tmac yao ming sura wesley james howard cavs have z (whos stats are very very very similar and even better in most catorgories than yao) gooden newble mcinnis varajeo i know mcinnis and newble didnt have a big impact but mcinnis' stats are almost the same as suras and gooden(9.2) practically outrebounds wesley(3.0) james (1.9) howard (5.7) conbined dont get me wrong lebron is one of my favorite players but not better than tmac at this point
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post"> im gonna say this again like i did in my previous post. IF LEBRON JAMES is better than tmac then y cant he lead his team to the playoffs in a conference where a team 2 GAMES OVER .500 makes it when tmac can lead his team to the playoffs with less talented players, older players, and undersized gaurds IN A LEAGUE WITH THE 8TH SEED THAT IS 8 GAMES ABOVE .500 rockets to compliment tmac yao ming sura wesley james howard cavs have z (whos stats are very very very similar and even better in most catorgories than yao) gooden newble mcinnis varajeo i know mcinnis and newble didnt have a big impact but mcinnis' stats are almost the same as suras and gooden(9.2) practically outrebounds wesley(3.0) james (1.9) howard (5.7) conbined dont get me wrong lebron is one of my favorite players but not better than tmac at this point</div> First of all, McGrady has Yao. Zydrunas isn't near the inside threat that Yao is and nor does he have the defensive presence Yao does. I don't understand how you can say Rockets are less talented than Cavaliers. It doesn't matter if you have older players, they put up nice stats. Who cares if we have undersized guards. They can keep up with the faster guards of the west. Out of those Cavaliers players, only McInnis, Gooden, and Zydrunas are really offensive threats. The others are jokes. We have a lot more depth than them at really every position. Sure, you can say McInnis equals Sura, but then you have the other five players on the Rockets (James, Howard, Barry, Wesley, Mutumbo) while Cavaliers have the three. And why are you giving irrevelant stats about Gooden? Great, he outrebounds two undersized guards and an offensive minded powerforward that had less minutes than him. A lot of you seem to be reading too much into this. McGrady has more veteran skills on him such as leadership compared to Lebron. Other wise, they're pretty much equal when added together. Oh, and 13 in 35 isn't clutch. Its luck. If he something similar to it again, I'll call its clutch.
^ It does matter that they are older; they don't put up nice stats; most of them are undersized; and dude, duuuude, keep up with the gaurds in the west? come on you gotta know better than that. Our gaurds can't keep up with Dallas, can't keep up with Phoenix, can't keep up with Sacramento, definately can't keep up with San An, I don't think they can even keep up with the Clippers. Oh, and irrelevant stats? Since when did rebounding (especially for a power forward) become irrelevant? Oh, and by the way, 13 in 35 is the definition of clutch... just so you know
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">Really? His shot is a problem? Yes, in his rookie season it was, but now? Last year he was 13th in the league is FG% for non PF/Cs. On the surface that doesnt look that impressive but only 3 were good enough players to be all-stars. The others were just pure-shooters such as Wally Szczerbiak or Mike Miller. His 3-point percentage (35%) though not extraordinary is much better than such highly regarded shooters as Mr. McGrady (32.6%) and Kobe Bryant (33.9%). I dont know where this "craft of his offensive game" crap is coming from. LBJ scored more than McGrady last year (27.2 to 25.7) on less shots per game (21.0 to 21.3). LBJ is also a better passer (7.2 apg to 5.7 apg) and a better rebounder (7.4 to 6.2). In last year's 7 game playoff series that TMac was in he average 30.7 / 7.4 / 6.7. Over the last 27 games of the regular season LBJ averaged 30.9 / 7.9 / 6.4. So if he is a "BEAST" for putting up those stats over a 7 game span what does that make LBJ for putting those up over 27 games? Also when looking at McGrady's stats from that series remember that he was playing the Mavericks, a weak defensive team. I think that you can't call anyone a "BEAST" in the playoffs if they can't get their team out of the first round. I would also like to point out that the panel of people that vote for the prestigious all-NBA teams agree with me, LeBron got 3 times as many votes first team as TMac with 45 to Tracy's 15. Overall LBJ had 160 more points than TMac in the voting so according to the 124 knowledgeable writers and broadcasters LBJ is a superior player.</div> well Lebron plays in the EAST. Meaning he plays SUCKY/CRAPPY/HORRIBLE EAST TEAMS for the most part. He Plays baaad teams, such as Atlanta and Charlotte 4 times a year. (Last year, only Detroit/Miami kicked ass in the EAST). The rest of them are meh. I don't care what you say, if you put cleveland in the West, and Houston in the East, then T-Macs numbers would we A LOT HIGHER, and Lebron's would be A LOT LOWER. Seriously, only haveing to play teams such as the Spurs, and Sacramento twice a year is a convenience for Lebron. Plus Cleveland is built around ONE all star (lebron). While Houston has 2, and Yao being the bigger one. TMac has proven his shot enuff to show he can basically make it when either necessary or if he feels like it. You saw him in Orlando and in the Katrina Relief game. JVG just doesn't want his game to revolve around 3 point shooting when he is capable of so much more. If T-Mac played as just a 3 point shooter (like Padgeott imo) then I KNOW his 3pt% wud at least be 41% Credit T-Mac for his scoring capabilities/style and variety. <font color="red">Personal attacks will not be tolerated.~Trip</font>
Guys, let's not kid ourselves here. There is no way the Cavaliers of a year ago were a better team than the Rockets. Drew Gooden is an inconsistent and inexperienced player, McInnis did more bad for the team than good, and the team didn't have any outside threats. Lebron James carried the team night in night out and I have to say that he did a very good job, although the team fell short of the playoffs. And all this without even mentioning Cleveland's change of ownership and coach halfway through the season. That being said, there is no way James is better than TMac. McGrady has an all-around game, something that Lebron does as well, but James cannot hit the outside jumper as consistently as McGrady. JWohl, you bring out James's three-point percentage, but he attempted just 308 from behind the arc. McGrady put up 435 in less games. Last season, James scored mostly from penetration and midrange, and the three was somewhat of a last resort for him. You won't see him spotting up unless he was open or on a roll. TMac had to do most of his damage from midrange or beyond the arc; when you have a 7-6 center inside, you don't usually get enough space to drive...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting side45wayz:</div><div class="quote_post">^ It does matter that they are older; they don't put up nice stats; most of them are undersized; and dude, duuuude, keep up with the gaurds in the west? come on you gotta know better than that. Our gaurds can't keep up with Dallas, can't keep up with Phoenix, can't keep up with Sacramento, definately can't keep up with San An, I don't think they can even keep up with the Clippers. Oh, and irrelevant stats? Since when did rebounding (especially for a power forward) become irrelevant? Oh, and by the way, 13 in 35 is the definition of clutch... just so you know</div> At least they put up better stats than most of the Cleveland starters. Wesley puts up 10.9 points, Sura's got 10.3 points to go a long with his nice assists and rebounds, while Howards just under 10 with 9.6 points. Yao averages 18.3 points a game. They aren't star calibur points, but yes, I consider those pretty nice for supposedly old veterans. Compare those two the starters that play along side Lebron. Wesley and James are the only ones that are undersized on this team, and yes they did keep up with the faster guards. It was Sura who was beat off the dribble by Terry. James did a good job of keeping up with him. They were irrevelant stats, because he was comparing a powerforward's rebounding numbers to two undersized guards and an offensive minded powerforwards. Besides, its very possible Howard could have averaged those numbers if he played the same amount of minutes. I think its just me, but I don't get why people think McGrady's so clutch just because of that performance. So he got hot at the end, big deal. Anyone can get hot at the end of a game and light you up. But that was one game. Its not like there were several occasions he made buzzer beaters (I only remember two this year) and his end of game defense has been subpar up till this year.
ASNXBALLER, We were a much better team than the Cavs, but our stats don't prove it. In fact they are remarkably similar to the Cavs. Lebron's points alittle higher than McGrady's, Yao's alittle better than Zydrunas's (not even 2 points), and McInnis's alittle better than Sura's, and despite what Trip says, Gooden and Juwan are about even. There were two differences in why we were better than them; great coaching (especially defensive wise) and McGrady leading and setting the tone for the team. McGrady's ability to carry our team down the stretch of a game accounts for many of our team's victories. He might not of hit the buzzer beater, but how many times did Tracy hit a shot with say 45 or 50 seconds left in the game and then our defense get a stop and we wind up winning by 5 or 6 points due to last second free throws... many, many times, and that my friend is why Tracy McGrady is clutch. And Wesley/Sura is no match for Parker/Ginobli, or Terry/Stackhouse, or Nash/anyone, or even Cassell/Mobley or Staudamire/Jackson, or Luke Rid/Allen
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">At least they put up better stats than most of the Cleveland starters. Wesley puts up 10.9 points, Sura's got 10.3 points to go a long with his nice assists and rebounds, while Howards just under 10 with 9.6 points. Yao averages 18.3 points a game. They aren't star calibur points, but yes, I consider those pretty nice for supposedly old veterans. Compare those two the starters that play along side Lebron. Wesley and James are the only ones that are undersized on this team, and yes they did keep up with the faster guards. It was Sura who was beat off the dribble by Terry. James did a good job of keeping up with him. They were irrevelant stats, because he was comparing a powerforward's rebounding numbers to two undersized guards and an offensive minded powerforwards. Besides, its very possible Howard could have averaged those numbers if he played the same amount of minutes. I think its just me, but I don't get why people think McGrady's so clutch just because of that performance. So he got hot at the end, big deal. Anyone can get hot at the end of a game and light you up. But that was one game. Its not like there were several occasions he made buzzer beaters (I only remember two this year) and his end of game defense has been subpar up till this year.</div> T-Mac is clutch as hell...I recall hime hitting 2 clutch free throws to go into overtime (with 2 sec left) the first time we met with New York. The 13-35, and the 3 we won off of against Dallas. There were probably some more, but marijuana effects the memory. That does't sound like much to you, but the Rockets never really needed him to be that clutch in the final minutes of a game. I do know that when ever he had the game in his hands he always came through (EXCEPT ONCE DURING GAME 5 IN DALLAS WHEN WE GOT ROBBED, AND HE JACKED UP A 2.5). I say 2.5 becuz the refs might have called it a 3 even though his foot was on the line. Hey, eye for an eye right? NAME A TRUE CLUTCH PLAYER/Who YOU consider a great clutch player. Compare him to T-Mac's clutch performance. I bet any one you think up doesn't have that much more cluth performance than T-Mac. 2 things though, it has to be during the 04-05 season and cant be robert horry.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting side45wayz:</div><div class="quote_post">ASNXBALLER, We were a much better team than the Cavs, but our stats don't prove it. In fact they are remarkably similar to the Cavs. Lebron's points alittle higher than McGrady's, Yao's alittle better than Zydrunas's (not even 2 points), and McInnis's alittle better than Sura's, and despite what Trip says, Gooden and Juwan are about even. There were two differences in why we were better than them; great coaching (especially defensive wise) and McGrady leading and setting the tone for the team. McGrady's ability to carry our team down the stretch of a game accounts for many of our team's victories. He might not of hit the buzzer beater, but how many times did Tracy hit a shot with say 45 or 50 seconds left in the game and then our defense get a stop and we wind up winning by 5 or 6 points due to last second free throws... many, many times, and that my friend is why Tracy McGrady is clutch. And Wesley/Sura is no match for Parker/Ginobli, or Terry/Stackhouse, or Nash/anyone, or even Cassell/Mobley or Staudamire/Jackson, or Luke Rid/Allen</div> Thats my name, don't wear it out . Wait, I'm confused here, you think Rockets had a better team last year too? Yet you're basically arguing that we're even. So whats your point? We were a better team, but we're remarkably similar to the Cavaliers? But of course, like you said, stats don't show everything. Yao's better than Zydrunas not only but statistics, but also because he gives a big defensive presence. When you've got him camped in there, teams think twice before driving in there. He alters other players shots. You really can't say the same thing about Ilgauskas, at least not on that level. McInnis was actually a big team cancer for them last year and didn't do much but score some points. Meanwhile, Sura has a better all around game with his rebounding and also served as a quasi leader for us. From a statistical point of view, Gooden and Howard look even, but you also need to count in that Gooden is one of the most inconsistent players ever. You really can't count on him to show up every game unlike Howard who when unable scoring, will chip in on the rebounding end. The point I was trying to make was that our team aside from McGrady is substantially better than Lebron's minus the King. Okay, you keep listing all these things but where the hell's the bench? Last season we had Barry, James, Padgett, and Mutumbo doing a great job for us. Meanwhile, Cavaliers have um, who? Oh right, Snow, Traylor, Varejao, and a a couple other nameless players. Don't get me wrong, Snow's used to be one of my favorite players, but he's just not as effective as he used to be and his defense has gotten considerably worse. Alrighty, I'll admit McGrady is clutch then I'll give you that much, but he definitely won't be my go to guy if I had to pick any player. In fact, I'll name a few for everybody- Mike Bibby, Sam Cassell, Ray Allen, and Chauncey Billups. (One rule though, you can't use 13 in 35) Its just that I feel people are constantly overrating this supposed "clutchness" and "buzzer beat shooting" just because of that San Antonio escapade. But one little point I'd like to make about those last five or six second free throws. Really, any good free throw shooter came make those. I judge clutchness by defensive effort at closing seconds, efficiency down the stretch, and the buzzer beater. Side45Wayz, why are you giving me those Sura and Wesley comparisons. Its irrelevant. Weren't we strictly comparing the supposed "undersized" guards we have a while ago? Wesley and James.
aznxballer i guess this all started with my post so ill clarify. i was trying to put stats as a major concern as to cavs being close to the rockets skill wise but my major points were 1) how come the cavs with the same stats not get into the playoffs in the eastern conference last year when rockets got into the west. You can say that we had more depth and more leadership. 2) i was trying to point out tmac is more superior b/c he provides much more than his game in the fact that he makes the players around him better and that was shown in team chemistry and provides way more leadership than lebron did. ^^hopefully that clarified things
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post"> 2) i was trying to point out tmac is more superior b/c he provides much more than his game in the fact that he makes the players around him better and that was shown in team chemistry and provides way more leadership than lebron did.</div> First off how can someone be "more superior"? Anyway, LBJ is exceptional at his ability to make teammates better which is evident in statistical increases of players since his arrival in Cleveland. Big Z for instance saw his shooting percentage shoot up .40. Or take Carlos Boozer whose stats jumped 5ppg and 4rpg in LBJ first season. Or Drew Gooden who increase 3ppg and 3rpg when in cleveland. You want to label TMac as a positive influence for team chemistry and a good leader? Are you forgetting about two years ago in Orlando when he admitted to quiting on his team? When despite the only roster changes on the teams being the additions of Juwan Howard and Tyronn Lue the team won exactly half as many games as they did the year before. Also another small factor is that LBJ had missed a total of three games in the last two season, a testament to his toughness and leadership. McGrady on the other hand has missed 19 the last two years and has never missed less than 4 games in a season. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting igotask8board:</div><div class="quote_post">If T-Mac played as just a 3 point shooter (like Padgeott imo) then I KNOW his 3pt% wud at least be 41%</div> What is this based on? How would his 3-point percentage increase because he changes his roll as a player? Is his shot taken differently because he considers himself a different type of player? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting trip:</div><div class="quote_post">JWohl, you bring out James's three-point percentage, but he attempted just 308 from behind the arc. McGrady put up 435 in less games. Last season, James scored mostly from penetration and midrange, and the three was somewhat of a last resort for him. You won't see him spotting up unless he was open or on a roll. TMac had to do most of his damage from midrange or beyond the arc;</div> All that shows is that LBJ is smarter in the way he plays because he knows himself well enough to know not to throw up the volume of shots that TMac does. You can't defend TMac for shooting 3s at 32%. Hitting 3s one out of ever three times is a poor percentage. Also this is a problem that we saw with Carter during his last few years in Toronto where he stopped driving and settled for jumpers too often. LBJ keeps penetrating and going for the easier shot with the knowledge that it is a higher percentage shot. Dwayne Wade for instance has no 3-point range whatsoever however it does not effect his overall game. He doesnt NEED to take those outside shots because he can get easier shots and the same applies for LBJ. It, in my opinion, hurts TMac as an overall player that he takes so many outside shots instead of looking for the easier shot. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TMacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">im gonna say this again like i did in my previous post.IF LEBRON JAMES is better than tmac then y cant he lead his team to the playoffs in a conference where a team 2 GAMES OVER .500 makes it when tmac can lead his team to the playoffs with less talented players, older players, and undersized gaurds IN A LEAGUE WITH THE 8TH SEED THAT IS 8 GAMES ABOVE .500</div> LBJ carried an inferior team to within a game of the playoffs despite have virtually no stability at PG, no bench, no SG, a mid-season coaching change and a ownership change. Can you really fault him? Look at the advantages TMac had: A superior starting lineup around him, a much better bench that LBJ had, an excellent head coach (as opposed to LBJ who had his coach fired midseason and had an assistant take over). So is it a suprise that the Rockets did better? If anything it is suprising that LBJ could lead his team to that good of a season despite all those problems.
Statwise- LeBron is better, but that's just because Tmac couldn't average the same numbers, he just doesn't need to. And like everyones been saying- Tmac can shoot, and even tho Bron had a great FG% this year, it wasn't off jumpers (which is a good thing, it's efficient) it was off lay ups and dunks. At the end of the game when the clocks winding down, and the team needs a 3- the two players in the Leage u want to have the ball aren't named Bron. They are Kobe and Tmac. Kobe's 3 point shot has gone from horrible to good, to questionable, but he's shown us a million times the ability to dribble a few times rise up (off balance or not) and drill it. Same with Tmac. When Lebron comes down the court the defenders are backing off trying to protect the drive, or reaching and looking for a steal off one of his sick passes. They aren't protecting him on the perimiter because they know he can't drill it consistently.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Houston:</div><div class="quote_post">I respect your opinion schaddy, but even at this point TMac has the edge because he is a BEAST in the playoffs...we have yet to see lebron on the playoff stage so I think the #1 spot rightly belongs to TMac until we see what Lebron can do in May...</div> That is a very good argument. A player can make or break his career or his standing among others with his playoff performances, and T Mac has been very solid in the postseason. You make an excellent point and I want to agree with you because of that (it's something that usually comes to my mind, too ) but I've just got a gut feeling that says "LeBron". Like I said, they're both so good it's hard to argue that one is significantly better than the other, but you've got to hand it to McGrady that he's proven himself a superstar in the regular season as well as the playoffs.
Speaking of playoffs and make or break. Dirk's performance should have indicated that he doesn't have it in him. At least T-mac and the rockets made him see, that way by shutting him down in the 7 game series.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post"> All that shows is that LBJ is smarter in the way he plays because he knows himself well enough to know not to throw up the volume of shots that TMac does. You can't defend TMac for shooting 3s at 32%. Hitting 3s one out of ever three times is a poor percentage. Also this is a problem that we saw with Carter during his last few years in Toronto where he stopped driving and settled for jumpers too often. LBJ keeps penetrating and going for the easier shot with the knowledge that it is a higher percentage shot. Dwayne Wade for instance has no 3-point range whatsoever however it does not effect his overall game. He doesnt NEED to take those outside shots because he can get easier shots and the same applies for LBJ. It, in my opinion, hurts TMac as an overall player that he takes so many outside shots instead of looking for the easier shot.</div>I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again. How are you going to drive through the lane when you have a 7-6 guy on your team parked in there every minute he's on the floor? He won't block your shot, but he'd find it hard to get out the way as well. McGrady has that smart shot selection that you're so crazy about over Lebron. In his first few years in Orlando, he was allowed to play that way and his overall percentages were significantly higher than now. My point is just that you shouldn't go about blaming TMac for what he didn't do because the situations didn't allow it.
