Trade Idea Post and Discuss Trade Ideas for the 2019-20 Season

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by hoopsjock, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, mildly, with that assumption. Sure, ownership would be happy to see this year's tax bill reduced. But I think a substantial tax bill this season was baked into the assumptions of management and ownership. What wasn't baked in was just how disappointing this year's team is, which in turn brings into question the actual foundation and sustainability of what the team accomplished last season (and of course that team is gone now), and that changes expectations going forward, IMO. Now, I suspect a main goal of ownership is to not be a tax-payer next season, and taking on any big contract just about guarantees tax next season. By the way, that was probably the goal before this season (which could explain the expirings for expirings trades Portland made)...one more year of tax to escape those 2016 contracts, then a reset of finances
     
  2. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Well it just isn't that statement, not many of the media around here understand how the cap works.
     
  3. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    What about Whiteside for Batum? Batum looked as good as ever handling the ball and making passes. Obviously we don't get someone like Batum for the price of Hezonja. We get Hezonja. Or for the price of Bazemore or Evan Turner. We get those two players. It seems realistic at least. And he may not be the scorer some people want, but if our starting lineup is Nurkic, Collins, Lillard, and McCollum, someone who keeps the ball moving and can get the ball to a scorer where they can score would be just as valuable along with being an OK scorer.
     
  4. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    First of all, taking on Batum or Otto Porter doesn't necessarily guarantee they're in the tax. It would be possible to duck the tax both this year and next year doing this.

    The problem with a "reset" of the finances basically ensures we won't compete for a title in the Dame and CJ era. They'd basically be stuck with the roster and only pulling off a major CJ trade that brought back multiple roster spots it would pretty much close the door on any other trades.
     
  5. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    They'd have to include assets. At the very minimum Hernangomez (center replacement for Whiteside) and the Cavs 2020 2nd that they have and probably one more future 2nd rounder.

    If that's the best we can do for Whiteside then I guess it would be okay simply as having a big expiring contract next year or this summer to trade but Batum wouldn't help this team much.
     
  6. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    I’m biased because I’ve always liked Batum, but I’d take him. He knows the system, still defends, can facilitate, and you still have to cover him from the three point line despite his percentages this season. He’s also only under contract for one more season. Shit if we get creative we could even save money this season by adding Bazemore and Biyombo to the deal.

    btw it’s funny how Batum has seen a spike in his minutes lately. That’s definitely a showcase.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  7. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Help the team much ? Who's the starting SF next season? I'm assuming Batum can play SF as well as PF. Who is our backup PF next season?

    I don't know what roster you have in your mind. You have to complete that puzzle so others can see who else you have helping the team.
     
  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    they won't be competing for a title with Batum or Otto Porter either

    as far as the tax ramifications, initially the NBA was projecting a 139-140M cap, Then Morey opened his mouth, China went ballistic, and that was after revenues were already falling. So, it may be 140M and may be 130M. The last I heard the NBA sent out a memo saying that 140M projection might be too high. If I add Porter's salary to Portland's guaranteed and dead salary next season, it's around 126M, and that's only for 10 players, and that includes Hezonja, Trent, & Little. That might be low enough to stay under the tax line, but it's going to be an incredibly thin roster with the same problems it has now. It also includes Hood coming off a ruptured Achilles, and he might not even be back when the season starts; and he will struggle...we know that. And it includes only 2 bigs over 6'8, and both of those are injured right now

    I get the idea of trying to maintain some trade-worthy contracts. But somebody like Batum will have no positive value
     
  9. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    The ideal player obviously to me is a high-level defender who can defend multiple positions and score well. The Blazers don't have a guy like that. I doubt they could get one trading Whiteside and/or Bazemore, or even if they included McCollum . That kind of player would be the best fit.

    But, in general, if you're an NBA GM, I figure you have to always have a ranking of all the players in the NBA and try to get the best one(s) you can independent of fit.
     
  10. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Who exactly will be they be competing for a title with? I'd like you to say exactly who that player is. Then spell out how the Blazers get that player.
    Unless someone specifically says such-and-such a player is going to get the Blazers a title, I assume they do not imply that.
     
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  11. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Don't let last night fool you, Batum is terrible. The Blazers would be better off with 2nd round picks and the MLE at SF until Hood is back. Hood at 75% is better than Batum now.

    You don't just take a salary like that back without getting heavily compensated for it.
     
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  12. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Most of the thinking of 2016 was to have contracts big enough to make a big trade. It failed miserably but without trading for a guy under contract next year that makes a decent amount you basically make it impossible to make any trades this summer or next season other than small salary ones.
     
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  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    what are you talking about??? I was responding rhetorically to this post:

    I didn't pull the names of Batum and Porter, or the part about competing for a title out of my colon
     
  14. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    ????????????
     
  15. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I understand that HJ; and I understand the wish of at least getting something out of those contracts since they did so very little positive for Portland, but cost so damn much. But throwing good money after bad can be a real think when there's a strong motivation to 'use it or lose it. A bloated salary is a bloated salary. Just exchanging bloated salaries for the purpose of punting them down the road further, while paying that salary and tax, and hoping for some trade opportunity to pop up is an awful expensive waiting game for team with a payroll as high as Portland's

    like I said, I'll be a little shocked if Portland brings back any contract as big as Love's, or Aldridge's, or Porter's. I could see a hypothetical trade of Whiteside or Bazemore for a couple of players, one on an expiring and another with a MLE-level contract

    I guess my main take on this is in order to have trade-able contracts, you need actual attractive contracts, not bloated ones, and a lot of these trade I see around here miss that mark
     
  16. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think enough people understand this.
    You have to have good players on good contracts. It's not just about the $ of the contract
     
  17. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I do understand the value of the player versus the value of the contract but lets take this example for what I'm talking about.

    Lets say Minnesota struggles again next year and KAT demands a trade (just go with it). They tell Portland that they don't want CJ because they are rebuilding but would definitely do a deal revolving around Simons, Collins, Little, and 3 1sts. Portland would be unable to realistically make that trade only because they don't have the right contracts.

    Unlike some of the previous times stars have become available Portland has young players and picks available. It would be a shame if they didn't have the contracts.
     
  18. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I know you won't like this but if Olshey manages to save Jody from paying any tax this season when she thinks she is going to have to pay for this crap then it could buy him some good will towards going into the tax next time there is an opportunity to improve the team. If they got out of the tax this season they'd only have been in it once in the last 4 years so they could still go All-In one more season in the next two without triggering the repeater tax.

    If the Blazers did the trade I suggested earlier they'd have 10 players under contract (if Hood and Hezonja opt in plus Dame, CJ, Nurk, Batum, Collins, Simons, Little, and Trent). The salary would be at $126,521,910. Then they'd have their 1st round pick and up to 3 2nd rounders (in theory the cheapest possible contracts). If we estimate that the 1st round pick will be around $4 million and the 2nd rounders around $1 million then like you said it just kind of depends on what the final cap number ends up being from the NBA. This year it was over $132 million. I would seriously doubt it would go down from that number. Either way it will be difficult to stay under unless it's closer to $140 million like originally projected. If that's the case they could possibly even use the Tax-MLE to add another big to the mix or re-sign Skal using his bird rights. Very unlikely all this happens but it is possible but to your point I don't think that's a championship contender. Porter and Batum's contracts are pretty similar so the numbers don't change much substituting him in instead. This goes back to my first statement in this post where if we ducked the tax this year maybe this summer if we ended up with say the 12th pick then Minnesota would be willing to ship Covington to us for it without having to take back salary and Jody would be fine dipping back into the tax. If the season goes well then she maybe would be fine paying it. If the season turns to crap you move Batum for another player(s) with another year left but duck the tax again.

    It takes a lot of creativity but I'm afraid if we just let Whiteside and Bazemore expire to reset the cap deck we restrict the avenues of building a contender too much.
     
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  19. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    KAT makes 29M next season. I forget what trade rule applies if Portland is over the cap but well under the tax line. If it's 175%, then all the Blazers would have to come up with is 16.7M; if it's 125% then the floor if 23.3M

    if Portland doesn't do something stupid and somehow parlays just one of the expiring contracts into an 8-12M player while being close to the cap then, uses the MLE this summer, they'd have:

    CJ - 29.3M
    Nurkic - 12M
    traded-in player - 11M
    MLE - 9M
    Hood - 6M
    Zach - 5.4M

    that's 73M in salaries right there, and they could add to that by re-signing Skal for 3-5M. For chrissakes, if CJ is still fucking untouchable next year when KAT is 'available', Olshey should be fired on the spot. And for damn sure, the Blazers shouldn't be sweating missing out on any player that has less talent and impact than CJ.

    I don't see the problem that you do, but then I view CJ as a player that should be available whenever an elite player is on the market, and his contract solves the concern about having a big trade-able salary on the books
     
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  20. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Because you completely glossed over this statement in my post: "They tell Portland that they don't want CJ because they are rebuilding" you just went on a tangent that didn't have to be.

    Obviously there are ways to make a trade work, but an MLE signing wouldn't be trade eligible until Dec 15th. The Blazers also have to have a team still after trading for KAT in this example and the likelihood that Minnesota could take a 5 for 1 type trade would be slim.
     

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