Post-deadline Olshey Keep or Fire

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Feb 8, 2018.

?

What to do with Olshey?

  1. Keep Him

    23 vote(s)
    23.0%
  2. I don't know/On the fence

    20 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Fire Him

    57 vote(s)
    57.0%
  1. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    You threw in ever random comment but the kitchen sink. None of those statements is relevant to my suspicion that the "plan" he defends himself with, and which Allen has never mentioned, is a cover story...especially since he has consistently lacked the skill to follow the supposed "plan."

    Any fool can BUY at an auction. What requires negotiating talent is to later SELL the merchandise at a profit, not paying someone to take it off your hands. You cite examples of investing in lesser assets to make later consolidation trades, but you can't list any of those later consolidation trades. That's because the guy lacks the talent to make such trades...that is, to follow his fake plan.
     
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  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus This is what it looks like when a platypus cries. Staff Member Moderator

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    But...but...but...he made that Chris Paul trade that one time, therefore...
     
  3. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Okay, lets break it down financially. If you don't include Meyers and Turner we are under the cap in 2017 and therefore wouldn't get an MLE or trade exception (we probably keep Crabbe too but for this discussion I'll keep everything else the same except the Vonleh trade since that was just to get under the tax). So we'd have a very rough estimate of about $5 million in cap space and if we used that we'd get the room exception of $4.8 million. That is still less flexible than a $13 million trade exception and a tax-MLE of $5.2 million.

    So lets look at it without just Turner then. We'd be at a few million over the cap still. That means we'd keep our $13 million TPE and possibly have the full-MLE for $8.4 million and the Bi-Annual Exception of $3.2 million. Using those exceptions would hard cap us at the apron so it would be wouldn't be able to use the full TPE. So for this discussion lets only use the TPE for Mirotic and the MLE for whomever. That adds about $21 million to the payroll making us about $7 million over the tax line. While using those makes us better most likely this year and next year it actually gives us less flexibility this summer because we'd have slightly more in guaranteed contracts, no big TPE, and all the RFA's still.

    Arguing the team could be better without Turner is one thing but it doesn't make us more flexible.
     
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  4. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus This is what it looks like when a platypus cries. Staff Member Moderator

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    TPE would absolutely still exist, in that you have to renounce all available exceptions in order to use cap space. If the cap space available after renouncing the exceptions is less than the MLE, what would the Blazers gain by taking that tack? The ability to use the room exception too? Certainly not worth it. Clearly would be better off using non-tax MLE and BAE, keeping the TPE, and accepting the hard-cap.
     
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  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We had taxpayer MLE available.

    There's clearly some misconception that not paying players means you have flexibility. If you are way below the cap, you only have up to the cap in flexibility without exceptions. This is a real squeeze, as witnessed the Heat when they signed LeBron and Wade and Bosh only to find themselves handcuffed by the salary cap, only able to sign vet minimum contracts for that season. It likely cost them the championship, which they won the next season, after having draft picks/MLE to improve the roster.

    If you are over the cap but under the LT, you have that amount of salary (more than the CAP!) in flexibility. You have more $$$ to build your roster while having all the flexibility you'd otherwise have at under the CAP.

    Even over the LT threshold, we had the ability to get rid of Crabbe's big contract, make trades, and get under the LT. NO had a huge TPE that could have facilitated a trade to bring in another high salaried player, if there were one that was available and worth the price.
     
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  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  7. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    I think the clear issue here is BonesJones knows absolutely everything about basketball and what a team needs to do to build an instant contender, and nobody else agrees with him. Sorry Bones I know you are passionate but I simple disagree with your analysis on about 75% of basketball related things. There are a ton of former NBA players who have been complete failures as GM's, simply having played the game doesn't automatically equate to a greater understanding of scouting and coaching it up.
     
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  8. Schilly

    Schilly Well-Known Member

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    BTW we love ya BonesJones I’m just flipping ya a little shit for fun!
     
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  9. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Rip Some Lips

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    Like either you or I know how Neil is being measured by Paul. Again, if he's as bad as you say Paul wouldn't have extended him last year.
    12 out of 30 teams have won more than 30 games to date, and we are one of them.

    If you really are Trader Bob, you better call your buddy Rich Cho and tell him to get his act together.
     
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  10. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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  11. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    It’s the same as failing a test and then being like “well other students failed too so it’s not just me”. You still failed the test, Neil.
     
  12. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Sure, you could make that work, but if we are talking strictly from a flexibility standpoint being hard capped and right up against that line is absolutely less flexible than just going way over the tax and being able to operate however you want (stupid rule by the way but that is a different discusssion).
     
  13. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey WHINEY BIG BITCH!!!!!

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    Yeah. I'm not even gonna participate in this thread anymore. Everyone saying it hasn't been that bad have brought up historical facts and numbers.

    I haven't seen one person put numbers to names as to a detailed option that NO could have done.

    But if everyone else failed it then he isn't worse is he? He is the same? So everyone wants to replace him with the another guy who also failed...

    Theres alot of common sense going around this forum lately.... NOT!
     
  14. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I don't get how it is a failing grade. Teams like the Lakers get an F who drafted #2 three years in a row and had to waste one of those picks just to get rid of one of the contracts they signed. They are still stuck with the other one and might have to use the stretch provision just to get him off the roster which would be very costly. They haven't sniffed the playoffs since 2013.

    I'm not saying it's an A or a B or anything like that but I still haven't seen a plan that would have resulted in a better team today other than @SlyPokerDog who suggested player options or lesser years on the contracts but even that might not have been possible.
     
  15. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

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    Bazz or Ed. My money's on Bazz. Only thing working in our favor is that not many teams have tons of cap space - and those that do are going after much better players. So there's a semi-decent shot we can keep our average bench players on semi-team-friendly deals. Oh boi!
     
  16. AFully22

    AFully22 Well-Known Member

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    Who said anyone wants to replace him with one of the GM’s who fucked up in 2016? I would look to find someone up and coming or is on a GM staff that has a proven track record. There’s plenty of em.


    I don’t disagree so much with who he signed, because it may have been his only options, I just vehemently disagree with the contract he signed them too. There was absolutely no reason to sign Meyers for $50 mil when he seemingly wasn’t able to find a contract like that around the league, Harkless is the same thing, and ET himself said he was shocked about what they offered meaning he probably wasn’t going to get close to that anywhere else. If Meyers, Moe, and ET were on even semi reasonable deals the future and current outlook for this team would be a lot better. It’s that simple. He completely miscalculated and over spent and he has now had to rid assets and cash to make up for it and will again soon, I’m sure. It is what it is, Neil fucked up that summer as did other GM’s who are currently on the hot seat.
     
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  17. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Again...I'm talking about whether Olshey's bullshitting us about his unworkable "plan." You keep replying that Allen must like Olshey, or he wouldn't employ him. That's irrelevant to whether we should believe in the "5-year plan" ever coming true. It's just an smokescreen/excuse Olshey uses whenever asked a critical question.
     
  18. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus This is what it looks like when a platypus cries. Staff Member Moderator

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    But if you're operating from a point starting $5M below the cap line, even using full MLE, BAE, and TPE would have us ~$6M below the apron, still plenty flexible. Starting at that point and using the MLE & BAE and simply retaining the TPE would put a team $6M over the cap line, and $20M under the apron, with tons of flexibility. Unquestionably much more than we have now.
     
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  19. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Ha ha. You choose this as your example to defend Olshey from being fired.

    Apparently you don't know that the Lakers fired the perpetrators, Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss.
     
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  20. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    If they don't spend money to improve the team this summer after ducking the tax the last two years then I will absolutely join you here.
     
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