Fazekas has lateral quickness Murphy lacked,and impressive inside moves. I would not recommend just writing off a 6-11 guy who can shoot a 3 and rebound on the theory he's too like Murphy. The skinny 220 lb 6-9 pf's who can run the floor and look like a power guy in college can hit the wall...literally...in the NBA when matching someone who is 250,260 lb. If we really want a rebounder-there will tend to be some trade off. Herbert Hill has been putting up some damn nice numbers as the season progresses. He's had quite a few games of 3+ blocked shots,has a trend toward more minutes-scoring-rebounds. Since nobody really took note last year-he's moving up,is getting better stats than some guys who'd been on the radar.
So far,Powell's minutes were with Biedrins out-so in Nelly-think he has replaced Troy-Ike in the spare center role. The trouble I have now is that REREM wants a classic PF type who REBOUNDS well...yet such a guy-I fear-would not ever get to BE a PF. We don't need guys rusting away as the #4 center while Pietrus plays PF. At 245,Harrington plays like a SF/PF mix,but there is no def presence inside,and the rebounds are a matter of chance. Would Nellie use him at SF if we got a rebounding PF? The disconnect between what I think we need and what Nellie tends to do makes it difficult to pick a player,trade,draft,whatever,who'd fill both profiles.
My point is i would rather commit money to Pietrus who can play defense and is a team chemistry guy over Barnes that despite a nice game vs. Cleveland is just as dumb as Pietrus when it comes to hoop smarts and has = to less skills. Barnes was effective vs Cleveland because he played within himself. He didnt bring the ball up. He didnt take quick shots. He played defense and hustled his ass off. I think he reverted somewhat the very next game bs the bobcats. BAck was the quick dumb shot and the play that pissed me off most. At the end of a quarter with 5 seconds or so on the clock the guy gets the rebound with Baron breaking up the sidelines and instead of passing the ball up he dribbles up court, fumlbes the ball slightly at mid court and blows any chance at a quarter ending shot. Pretty much the same dumb thing you would expect from Pietrus. WE saw his ridiculous spin move a few times and the usual BArnes crap. I don't like seeing BArnes on the floor unless it is for quick energy. 5-10 minutes at most for crashing the boards and hustle which he did in the cle game. Pietrus brings much more to the team. Athletiscm, ball on D, help D, rebounding, he can hit the spot up 3 as well as Barnes, handles the ball as well (poorly), and finishes better at the rim. BArnes to me is a dime a dozen and would be back to nearly out of the league in most any other system. Let him go after the season. If we choose to not resign Pietrus, because we have J-rich, Ellis, baron, jackson, az i can understand. But choosing between the two .... is not a choice. MP all the way. I just hope Barnes is shipped out at the trade deadline so we dont need to worry about it.
<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">BArnes to me is a dime a dozen and would be back to nearly out of the league in most any other system. Let him go after the season. If we choose to not resign Pietrus, because we have J-rich, Ellis, baron, jackson, az i can understand. But choosing between the two .... is not a choice. MP all the way. I just hope Barnes is shipped out at the trade deadline so we dont need to worry about it.</div> I have a hunch Barnes will come much cheaper. Pietrus' agent will have seen what Dunleavy got and want similar. Also, the league knows about Pietrus, many GMs say good things about him, thus he'll demand more on the free agent market and it will be harder to retain him. We could pull a sleeper with Barnes and probably re-sign him for much cheaper, considering he was not a high draft pick (like MP), has been cut from several teams, and was nearly out of the NBA. He is not nearly as proven as MP (for what that's worth) and will cost less, IMO. If GS wants to sign AB and Monta, they can afford a small bench-player contract (like 3 years, 7 mils to Barnes) but they can't afford a mid-level or higher deal (like 3 years, 15 mils for Pietrus). I don't know the exact numbers, but with the way things are shaking out, EVERY dollar will count and my #1 priority would be making sure there's enough $$ left for the kids.
Nazr deal revisited Detroit still needs a perimeter player which we have in MP. Do we deal MP to the Pistons if Mullin bends Dumars over and they take Foyle? MP and Foyle for Nazr Mohammed, Dale Davis and Ronald Murray works. I dunno how Nazr is playing. Can he rebound and clog the middle? I think he can score. "Detroit Free Press Detroit needs another piece to be beast in East January 29, 2007 BY DREW SHARP FREE PRESS COLUMNIST Didn't the plan this season revolve around cutting back on Rip Hamilton's and Chauncey Billups' minutes? Their legs were as flat as their jump shots when the Pistons hit the skids in last season's Eastern Conference finals. Flip Saunders burned them out. But he swore the lesson was learned. He would develop trust in a bench this season that would subsequently decrease the unnecessary extra minutes that the All-Star backcourt logged last season. Yet Hamilton, Billups and Tayshaun Prince are averaging about two more minutes a game now than they did last season. The Pistons bow their heads in thanks every night that they call the Eastern Conference home. Their 95-87 victory over a dramatically rebuilt Indiana team lifted them within a half-game of the best record in the East, despite a 5-5 record over their past 10 games. But existing among the least desirable creates a delusional state that might prove fatal come playoff time. The piece they really need isn't here. All the hoopla surrounding Chris Webber's homecoming momentarily hid the Pistons' biggest need -- a trusted perimeter scorer off the bench who could take some of the load off Billups and Hamilton. Joe Dumars is working the phones, searching hard for an answer. But how much is he willing to surrender for such an upgrade? His biggest off-season acquisitions, Nazr Mohammed and Flip Murray, aren't regulars in the rotation. He's likely dipping both into the trade waters as potential bait. And that won't necessarily make prospective bidders salivate. Trouble awaits them in the playoffs if bench backcourt scoring isn't addressed, because they'll only go as far as Billups' and Hamilton's scoring takes them. And they can't afford them running out of gas prematurely. Hamilton is averaging just less than 38 minutes through Sunday. He averaged 35.3 last year. "I'm not worried at all about it," said Hamilton, "because at this same time last year, I think I was averaging about 40 minutes. And I know Chaunce was getting more than 40 minutes. That's where the problem was. I think we can better handle it this season. It averages out to more minutes, but if it's balanced out better, then it shouldn't be that much of a problem." Hamilton is hopeful Carlos Delfino can fill that perimeter role come playoff time. "And you can't just forget about Flip," he said. "He just needs to find a role that he's comfortable in. That takes time." Murray's role is filling up space on the bench. He hasn't played a second in the past three games. Perhaps the NBA should rename its conferences just in time for the upcoming All-Star break. The West becomes the "Wow!" conference while the East becomes the "Ow!" conference -- one inflicting the pain with the other wallowing in it. The only thing scary about the Eastern Conference is that they're playing. Cleveland lost seven of its past 10 games, including embarrassing themselves at home before a national television audience Sunday against flaming-hot Phoenix. But the Cavaliers remained in basically a three-way tie for first place in the Central Division with the Pistons and Chicago. The East certainly doesn't belong in the NBA championship discussion right now. You've got Phoenix and Dallas out West racing full speed to just under 70 regular-season wins, while there's a decent chance that the last two Eastern Conference playoff seeds combined just might scale above the 70-win plateau. But despite the obvious disparities, you dismiss the inevitable East champion at your own risk. Wasn't everyone in Motown planning the downtown victory parade route just seconds after Magglio Ordonez's pennant-clinching home run reached the leftfield seats? And everybody in Detroit knows what happened next. Why are they even having the Super Bowl on Sunday? Wasn't the Vince Lombardi Trophy awarded on the podium at the RCA Dome following that classic Indianapolis-New England AFC Championship? But ... you just don't know until it happens. That has become the Eastern Conference's rallying cry. While their brothers to the West jockey for that crucial home-court edge for a decisive seventh game, the goal in the East is just reaching the playoffs. Just get there, and anything can happen. Mike Thompson" http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...mplate=printart
Alley, if that is the case and i am with you when it comes to AB and Ellis. Lock those kids up. However, if Pietrus is too pricey then we should get what we can now. I am assuming that Mullin is in contact with MP and aware of what the starting asking price is. I wouldn't sign Barnes to anything. Dime a dozen and most likely will play better hungry. And i think the perfect guy that fits Nellie's system will be there for our taking in the 2nd round. Brandon Heath from SDSU. The guy flat out can run, great team leader, clutch player, all time scoring leader in SDSU history, 2nd in MWC history. Has huge range, quick release, steps up for the big shot, at 6' 4" has ran the point as well as played the 2, great finisher going to hole and what is most impressive is he has a nice mid range game ( think rip hamilton) and a consistent tear drop shot ( van exel, tony parker) and can keep his man in front of him.
I agree with Alleyoop. The choice between Barnes and Pietrus is more about money. Pietrus is not better that much better than Barnes, but I worry that Pietrus will command a lot more money than Barnes. I would probably sign Azu for a year or two, and let Pietrus and Barnes go due to cap considerations. When Jrich comes back, there's no need for Barnes or Pietrus unless Jackson is traded or cut. ----- In terms of Mohammad: I remember when he was playing for the Spurs, Popovich was always getting on him about rebounding and got benched for Rasho in beginning of the season. Mohammad can certainly score, but the warriors don't need him to score in the post.
Nazr is a fat 5 year deal for no real worth. Foyle (now) is better and expires sooner-which is very very relevant to this talk of budgets and assets lost. In terms of what they can do for us,Pietrus and Barnes are worth as much as the next 2 guys we get in the draft. We can't count on more. We have little control in Barnes case. We have no control with Powell or Azubuike either. We can try to sign any and all-but other teams will bid. Pietrus we DO have the advantage. I'd expect the Warriors to try dealing Jackson and probably Runi,maybe soon,maybe poat season. I expect the priority is to win,now,and sort out the $ stuff later (with some limits)
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We have no control with Powell or Azubuike either. We can try to sign any and all-but other teams will bid. I'd expect the Warriors to try dealing Jackson and probably Runi,maybe soon,maybe poat season. I expect the priority is to win,now,and sort out the $ stuff later (with some limits)</div> I thought powell was under contract for one more year and sarunas was expiring. Do I have this backwards?
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Nazr is a fat 5 year deal for no real worth. Foyle (now) is better and expires sooner-which is very very relevant to this talk of budgets and assets lost. In terms of what they can do for us,Pietrus and Barnes are worth as much as the next 2 guys we get in the draft. We can't count on more. We have little control in Barnes case. We have no control with Powell or Azubuike either. We can try to sign any and all-but other teams will bid. Pietrus we DO have the advantage. I'd expect the Warriors to try dealing Jackson and probably Runi,maybe soon,maybe poat season. I expect the priority is to win,now,and sort out the $ stuff later (with some limits)</div> Nazr has a much lesser deal than Foyle even though it is a longer contract (4 yrs vs 2 yrs after this season), so it would make re-signing our players easier. Next year, we are talking $5.6M vs $8.9M for Foyle. Also, Dale Davis is an expiring contract. Ron Murray's contract would be up next year at $1.9 M if he doesn't work out or he could opt out. So financially, this deal makes a lot of sense.
<div class="quote_poster">ryanfish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I thought powell was under contract for one more year and sarunas was expiring. Do I have this backwards?</div> Powell is up after this season while Rooney has another year at $4 M.
Whats the word on Chris Taft? Is he healthy yet? Has anyone picked him up since he was cut? I think he could be a good pickup for cheap if he ever gets healthy. He showed some decent game and promise in the little time I saw him play.
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Pietrus we SHOULD be able to keep. The MLE,plus a lttle,would eliminate most bids. Big diff between a deal just under $6 mill and a $9 mill Dunleavy. The few teams with cap space will aim at Vince Carter,Gerald Wallace,Rashard Lewis,Nocioni,if sf/sg is the priority. Barnes can get as much as $4 mill,perhaps a bit more. Azu? hard to say,as he could play his way to a pretty decent contract. Powell is it the same boat. Barnes has twice scored 30,frequently scored 20-and while he's not been perfect....so what...we can't AFFORD a team full of perfect. If we fail to trade Jazzy or Jax,we may have trouble getting Barnes back,might need to use MLE to do it
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Pietrus we SHOULD be able to keep. The MLE,plus a lttle,would eliminate most bids. Big diff between a deal just under $6 mill and a $9 mill Dunleavy. The few teams with cap space will aim at Vince Carter,Gerald Wallace,Rashard Lewis,Nocioni,if sf/sg is the priority. Barnes can get as much as $4 mill,perhaps a bit more. Azu? hard to say,as he could play his way to a pretty decent contract. Powell is it the same boat. Barnes has twice scored 30,frequently scored 20-and while he's not been perfect....so what...we can't AFFORD a team full of perfect. If we fail to trade Jazzy or Jax,we may have trouble getting Barnes back,might need to use MLE to do it</div> I'm leaning towards keeping Barnes and AZ over MP because Barnes has done more for the Warriors in several games. Of course, he's shot too many 3-balls and tried to do too much but think that's because he's been playing for a contract. Think AZ will be somebody who will help a lot in the near future, too. MP will want a lot of money (could command more than MLE+) and that would blow our budget to re-sign MP and AB, so while he can start at SF and play some PF, the addition of AL and Barnes/AZ makes him expendable. Also, we will have a logjam at the swingman position when JRich comes back even if MP is gone. Think SJax will be dealt in the off season while Powell could be re-signed. It makes sense for me to deal MP now if I can get rid of Foyle and get a backup to spell AB who can play more minutes than Foyle now.
I disagree and agree with Alley I agree with moving MP, if it means moving Foyles contract, by all means. But by the same token, if BArnes has shown more value, which he hasnt to me, but if he has then he should be the one packaged with Foyle to get the best deal back. I disagree that Pietrus is going to want to break the bank. He has shown nothing but a sense of loyalty in interviews towards the Warriors and recently he has mentioned that Nelson has really taught him and allowed his game to flourish. His athletiscm, enthusiasm and finally Nellie has him playing smarter ball, yeah he reverts to his old self at times and don't let him be the man with the ball and he is fine. I think the addition of AL makes Barnes expendable actually. BArnes makes as many poor decisions as MP. I think MP has contributed far more than BArnes over the course of the season. Barnes big scoring nights were in blow outs and garbage time vs philly and sac. And the arguement that he is playing for a contract doesnt fly for me. AZ is playing for one as well and i dont see him jacking crap up, making poor decisions or acting like he is the go to man. Az plays within himself and always seems to contribute. In fact from the little i have seen of Powell i would almost be inclined to say he may be more valuable to our future than MP or Barnes. I say move BArnes now. He is not worth resigning for anything more than he is currently making, if he isnt happy with that let him find another team to take him. I doubt there are teams lining up for him. Pietrus max offer is the MLE Keep playing Powell and see what we have, whether to committ $ to him . If last off season was any indication, we should sit back and wait, let the big names, the few out there, vince lewis etc, take up the big money and then we will be in better position to dictate what we want to pay.
I like Pietrus and Barnes because they are great competitors. I like Pietrus, Barnes, and Azubuike because they can be great role players. A lot will be said when JRich comes back and whether Stephen Jackson gets prison time. Right now Azubuike is hardly playing any minutes. When JRich comes back Azubuike might not be getting any PT. So just by default it would seem if someone had to go it would be Azubuike. Of course if Pietrus signs else-where, say the Spurs to play with Parker and Duncan, then we should look to keep Azubuike. I would go along the guidelines of keeping at least two of the three. So if things stay the same then it appears that Azubuike is gone. But if Pietrus or Barnes go other places then I say keep the remaining two, hopefully for reasonable deals. Basically there seems to be too many conditions and if's to really get a good idea of what to do in the offseason with the three. Who knows, maybe one of them or more are traded at the deadline. I too wonder about Chris Taft. If he gets healthy I assume that the Warriors might give him another try or he will join the NBDL. I hope at least for his sake that he can get over his back problems. This goes for Wagner as well. I wonder if he too is in the D-League or did he go overseas? hmm...
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Powell is up after this season while Rooney has another year at $4 M.</div> I've seen conflicting info on this. According to espn's trade machine, Sarunas expires this year.
how about you get white dude from duke maybe it will work 2nd time http://youtube.com/watch?v=D-9-VJNbnEE&mode=related&search= http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/joshmcroberts.html
<div class="quote_poster">hipokrat_x(LV) Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">how about you get white dude from duke maybe it will work 2nd time http://youtube.com/watch?v=D-9-VJNbnEE&mode=related&search= http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/joshmcroberts.html</div> The thing that bothers me is he lacks speed and athleticism at the next level even though he has size. Also, he may be better playing in the post instead of perimeter. He sounds like a bigger Ike Diogu. Think he'll have trouble in Nelson's system.
<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree and agree with Alley I agree with moving MP, if it means moving Foyles contract, by all means. But by the same token, if BArnes has shown more value, which he hasnt to me, but if he has then he should be the one packaged with Foyle to get the best deal back. I disagree that Pietrus is going to want to break the bank. He has shown nothing but a sense of loyalty in interviews towards the Warriors and recently he has mentioned that Nelson has really taught him and allowed his game to flourish. His athletiscm, enthusiasm and finally Nellie has him playing smarter ball, yeah he reverts to his old self at times and don't let him be the man with the ball and he is fine. I think the addition of AL makes Barnes expendable actually. BArnes makes as many poor decisions as MP. I think MP has contributed far more than BArnes over the course of the season. Barnes big scoring nights were in blow outs and garbage time vs philly and sac. And the arguement that he is playing for a contract doesnt fly for me. AZ is playing for one as well and i dont see him jacking crap up, making poor decisions or acting like he is the go to man. Az plays within himself and always seems to contribute. In fact from the little i have seen of Powell i would almost be inclined to say he may be more valuable to our future than MP or Barnes. I say move BArnes now. He is not worth resigning for anything more than he is currently making, if he isnt happy with that let him find another team to take him. I doubt there are teams lining up for him. Pietrus max offer is the MLE Keep playing Powell and see what we have, whether to committ $ to him . If last off season was any indication, we should sit back and wait, let the big names, the few out there, vince lewis etc, take up the big money and then we will be in better position to dictate what we want to pay.</div> Before we get to Pietrus, how about discussing AL? First, I don't think AL is cut out to be PF. Second, he's more an offensive player like Antawn Jamison and has a streaky shot. I think Jams had the better shot, but at least AL has a contract we can live with given his limitations. AL doesn't really play defense and he's not a great defensive rebounder. He's athletic, can catch the ball in traffic, make plays and make passes though. He can shoot from outside even though it's not always there. AL should be playing SF and not PF. So that cuts into MP's time. MP has shown some talent this year and has improved his game every year. The trouble is he hasn't shown enough to be a better player than AL. Maybe he needs to add some moves to his offensive game. He's not a great ball handler even though he appears to have the ability to blow by people. He can play man-to-man defense and grab boards, but it hasn't been consistent. He's just hasn't been consistent in any one area. His game is still not well defined in Nelson's system. Some games MP helps a lot, while others he just disappears. I can see why you want to keep MP over Barnes. MP has more upside and is the better talent. Maybe it will come down to dollars as right now both MP and Barnes won't take the starting SF job away from AL. MP and Barnes each have their own positives and negatives.
