Game Thread Preseason Game #1 - Blazers vs Raptors in Vancouver BC

You keep bringing up Rick Barry's son Canyon. Yeah i can use the internet also. Please post his NBA stats.
You also seem to want to continue to post that i said things i didn't say. "Looks really stupid and shouldn't be in the NBA" was never said. What i said was it is uncoachable and has no place in the NBA. But that is nitpicking.
Coaches don't coach this shot because of the mechanics involved. From pee wee leagues where kids are not strong enough to get the ball to the hoop (They move the line in) to grade school, to high school, to College to the NBA very rarely do you find a coach willing to coach that shot. That is fact.
But the Blazers did indeed end up with a dude that is using it. Lets hope it works out well for him. At this point Onauku is at 50% 2-4 not including fan fest. Here is a good stat i dug up on the guy. he was 4-4 in 2016-17 playing for Houston.

 

I'm sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth but your initial posts on the matter pretty clearly indicate that you think it's dumb and not because of the coaching angle.

It's not taught by coaches because it looks dumb and kids don't want to shoot that way. It has very little to do with whether it works or not. That is completely different than coaches saying it doesn't work.

 

Last season, we were told that unlike Davis, Collins can shoot. Collins was told to shoot from about 15. He missed almost all, and this board kept praising what a shooter he was, assuming that he would start making them. It's not happening.

Olshey forced out Davis, one of our 2 defenders (Aminu) because he thinks Collins is such a shooter. Olshey should have held Davis for at least one more year, to make sure. But Olshey is bedazzled by offense, not defense.

Why would Collins' defense have gotten him minutes over defensive ace Davis? It was Olshey's expectation of Collins' offense, not defense, which got Collins all those undeserved development minutes.

 

Maybe in your crowd. I think I've heard that phrase once before in all these years.

What are the reasons?

 

Straw man. No one in the thread felt gloom and doom that we lost. Instead, people evaluated individual players.

With the same team? Who?

 

Davis had the best inside offensive game on our team last year. Who was better?

When people criticize his offense, they're talking about his shooting range, not his ability to slide in miracle layups through defenders' outstretched arms, which he did better than any other Blazer.

 

Ah I see, you're one of those posters who doesn't actually watch the games and just bases your opinions on box scores, hearsay, innuendo and delusions.

I never said Collins got minutes OVER Davis, because he didn't. If you had watched the games, you'd know that. They were almost always on the floor together - Davis as the backup center and Collins as the back up power forward. Collins didn't get "all those undeserved development minutes" playing instead of Davis, he got those minutes playing next to him. Seriously, this is a stretch, even for you, someone who constantly tries to make up "facts" to suit your agenda.

Here you go, some facts. The Blazers top 5-man units in terms of playing time:



Collins isn't mentioned once without Davis by his side. So much for your theory that Collins got "all those undeserved development minutes" because Olshey (who isn't the coach) preferred Collins' offense over Davis' defense.

 

Davis is actually a very average defender. He's not a liability but also certainly not the defensive "ace" you are implying he is.

 

Now that Davis is gone because Collins supposedly shoots better, some pick on Ed.

Last year, Davis shot FTs at .667, Collins .643, and Nurkic .630.

(You want 2-point %? Davis .584, Collins .455.)

 

I'm not picking on ED, just using him as an example. In fact Ed was pretty respectable from the FT line last year. In the 3 seasons prior he shot 61.7%, 55.9%, and 48.7% though.

 

Are you delusional? Where in my quote did I say that Davis and Collins didn't play together at the same time? Please point out my exact words saying that. As usual, you wrote a triumphant diatribe opposing a straw man.

 

No doubt he could do it in close, I just don't think his forte was D and rebounding much like Zacks is now.

 

On many NBA teams, you're right, although I was thinking only of substitutes around the NBA. But in comparison to other Stotts players, he and Aminu were our defensive aces (which Blazer was better? maybe Aminu only because of Aminu's energy). As for rebounding, he ranked well leaguewide.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/bask...ngthen-nets-presence-on-the-boards-1.21312911

 

Nurk is our defensive ace. With virtually the same roster the team went from one of the worst defenses in the league to a top-10 defense. His rim protection is elite.

I'd also say that Collins is better defensively than Davis. Davis might be slightly better for one on one post defense until Zach fills out physically but Collins is better at positioning, help defense, and is quicker to guard the perimeter when they get switched on picks.

Collins definitely fouls too much at this stage and Davis does have an advantage rebounding like you mentioned.

 

This argument that Collins will eventually be better than Davis, or that Collins needs 2 years--let's say that's right (I think it's only 50-50 he'll eventually be better than Davis is now, but let's say it's definitely Collins eventually). Well, then Olshey should have kept Davis until Collins is better. At $4 million/year, what was the rush to get rid of Ed? The only way you dump Davis now, is if Collins is better right now, and even his defenders in this thread say he needs more time, and to be patient.

 

You are cherry picking certain things and lumping me in with other posters. I said I think Collins is a better overall defender right now than Davis is. They both have their strengths and weaknesses but I think the areas Collins has the advantage are more suited for the style of play currently in the NBA. I'm strictly talking about it in terms of defense and you keep switching it to offense.

I think most people in here would have wanted Davis to stay for $4.4 million, especially since the front court is pretty thin and is looking like Meyers and Swanigan will have to have bigger roles this year. I do understand the sink or swim mentality of putting Collins in a big role though. If he fails to develop then this team isn't going anywhere after using the 10th pick in a loaded draft on him. I don't think they necessarily chose Collins over Ed Davis, it's more like they are hoping to accelerate the growth of Collins by throwing him into the fire. With or without Davis if Collins fails to show the capability of being a solid contributor in the NBA then Olshey is doomed anyway.

 

Yeah, if I remember correctly, Olshey referenced veterans stymying CJ's development as one of the justification for not resigning Ed. Makes some sense, I think.

 

To me, it's 50-50 whether Collins will ever be better than Davis is now. As for this particular season, my answer is: Ed, 100% probability.

But we shouldn't have to resolve that question for this particular year. Instead of guessing, we could afford to keep both, and let events decide. This one time that Olshey should have let the cake bake, he rushed.

 

What would have been the point of keeping Ed Davis this year? Is he really the key to us challenging Golden State for Western Conference supremacy this season? If not, keeping him only blocks Zach Collins' development. Collins needs to develop an inside game to reach his full potential and that was never going to happen with him playing next to Ed and his 2.4 ft. average made FG distance.

Ed was not part of the team's future. At this point, Collins is. The organization believed enough in Zach Collins to take him with the 10th pick in a deep draft. They need to find out if he can actually be as good as they predicted when they drafted him, and the only way to find out for sure is to get him as much playing time as possible, in the role you envision him playing. And, if he doesn't live up to expectations, it's better to find out sooner rather than later.

With, or without, Ed we aren't making the finals, or even the conference finals this season. He may have helped us win a couple more regular season games, but at the end of the year, we wouldn't be 100% sure what we have in Zach Collins. How Zach Collins plays this season will influence who we draft next June and what other roster moves/trades we make next July. Keeping Ed would have been short sighted for a team that is not yet in win now mode.

BNM