I know everyone is pissed... CV's value is more than Ford's, but I think we should have a little more faith in Colangello. This trade imo was based on making the team better, not getting a better player. TJ will help raptors play better for sure, as he is a the pass first PG we've been lookin' for. I'm positive we'll get someone decent from trading Mike James. I'm sad to see him go, but I think its best for the team.
i've campaigned for tj ford for a long time. fords breakdown ability is something we haven't had in raptor uniform since mighty mouse. moreover, its no coincidence the bucks have made the playoffs twice in the last three and those are the same years in which he played. charlie v is a nice kid, i wish him well but this is a business.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">With this trade happening the very second the free agent market opens up, it becomes clearer as to what Colangelo's plans are.... he's gonna go after Peja. To me, that's the only explanation I can come up with. He wouldn't want to give Peja an offer while CV's just sitting there thinking "wtf? Where do I fit in?" BC probably wanted CV outta there so he wouldn't have to deal with all the uncertainty and unwanted publicity. If BC does get to sign Peja, we would have a pretty decent line-up though: pg - Ford sg - MoPete sf - Peja pf - Bosh c - Rasho (Bargnani later on)</div> Looks like Peja will sign with the Hornets for close to a 5 year, 60 million dollar deal. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2507013 Thank goodness. It would be horrible if we wasted all our money on Peja and signing him to 5 years at 12 million a season.
You guys are going to be like a poor man's phoenix next year, and that's a good thing. I don't see what ur griping about. U have a very solid pg and a rising star in Bosh. Bosh and TJ will do some great things together.
Did anyone read my comments about Jose Calderon? (back on page 5) I'm just interested to hear your thoughts on that suggestion. I didnt really see him play last season at all, but from what I have seen (highlights, stats etc.), he seems like the pass first, shot creating guard that the Raptors wanted in T.J, if thats not the case though for Calderon, please clarfy that for me, as I said, I only caught climpses of him. To me, thats another major reason why this trade should'nt have gone through, not to mention Brevin Knight is a free agent, why not go after him? In my opinion, keeping that dominant front court together should've been your #1 priority.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Did anyone read my comments about Jose Calderon? (back on page 5) I'm just interested to hear your thoughts on that suggestion. I didnt really see him play last season at all, but from what I have seen (highlights, stats etc.), he seems like the pass first, shot creating guard that the Raptors wanted in T.J, if thats not the case though for Calderon, please clarfy that for me, as I said, I only caught climpses of him. To me, thats another major reason why this trade should'nt have gone through, not to mention Brevin Knight is a free agent, why not go after him? In my opinion, keeping that dominant front court together should've been your #1 priority. </div> I don't think amnyone read the post where I said TJ Ford is just a better version of Jose Calederon. Both of em are super fast, both of them are not necessarily good shoorts or defenders but they are excellent drivers and dishers, have excellent court vision and can run the lights out. That's two solid point guards we have on our team. I believe Calederon will develop into a solid point guard in this league. I see him as being a little better then Carlos Arroyo. I'm actually beginnning to like this deal for the Raptors because I can vaugley see what Colangelo visualizes for this team in his head as well. However, most of the Raptors stakes depend on AB and Bosh right now, perhaps more then ever. I don't think the Raptors will make the playoffs this year (pending thier roster stays the same as it is rite now, which it wont be), but I think they will come closer then they did last cause no way in hell are they starting 1-15 again.
Wow I think ultimately this trade is motivated by BC's incredible infatuation with Andrea Bargnani. My main problem with this trade is i believe CV31 has the potential to be a superstar/game changer anyone who scores 48 points in a game in there rookie season has my attention. I would have rather given up the #1 pick for tj ford. As for tj ford i like him and i think he's a solid pro but i don't think he has the upsize of a CV31. I just think if your gonna give up an Athletic 21 year old 6'11 forward who has NBA 3pt range you should get more than a middle of the pack point gaurd who is coming off an injury. MAn am I choked about this trade, *****. I think New GM's too often want to come in and put there stamp on the team and they don't spend enough time reconizing the talent they have on the team already. Best of luck CV31!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">I know everyone is pissed... CV's value is more than Ford's, but I think we should have a little more faith in Colangello. This trade imo was based on making the team better, not getting a better player. TJ will help raptors play better for sure, as he is a the pass first PG we've been lookin' for. I'm positive we'll get someone decent from trading Mike James. I'm sad to see him go, but I think its best for the team.</div> here we ago again the patience approach see...it's already not so good when nesterovic is signed because that signing basically means my thought of small line up of C-bosh, PF-charlie is more than likely not going to happen then came something worse...the bargnani draft what that means is that charlie is likely gone then just when you thought things can't get worse...charlie is gone for....TJ Ford.... COME ON even if you were to trade charlie away, never trade away a potential player to the same conference that will likely eat your playoff spot for the next few years good news for your magloire fans because of the signing, the GM of milwakee announced that C-bogut PF-charlie SF-simmons SG-redd PG-maurice 6th man-charlie bell this line up is top 5 east for many years to come and that makes your magloire expandable magloire back to toronto? hurray i guess not even colangelo can save this team i think he got infected by the previously diseased GM
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys are going to be like a poor man's phoenix next year, and that's a good thing. I don't see what ur griping about. U have a very solid pg and a rising star in Bosh. Bosh and TJ will do some great things together.</div> that's not the right comparison phoenix has bench whereas toronto after this trade still has no bench and marion is a different breed of forward vs bosh (he shoot 3s, rebound,block and steals more than bosh while bosh is more of a scorer) and toronto doesn't have special talents like diaw who plays 4 positions or amare the undersized beast therefore you can't say it's poorman's phoenix more like...rapedtors
Also with Cv31 gone our forward depth is severly depleted so i thought knowing that he was likely gonna get traded colangelo should have drafteda Pf or centre with the second rd pick. Either Alexander Johnson or Paul Mislap would have been nice fits. Anyway here are some undrafted guys we could maybe sign: Kevin Pittsnogle, PF/C, West Virginia, Marco Killingsworth, PF, Indiana , Taj Gray, PF, Oklahoma, Terrance dials Ohio State. Also just as a throw in i really Mike Gansey we should sign him.
Its alot of pressure to put on AB...just drafted 1st overall, and days later the team trades away their very very solid current SF/PF for less than he's worth. People say Hoff's biggest problem was that sooo much was expected of him right away. Lets hope that AB can handle the pressure, and that he turns out the way BC obviously is SURE he will. also, someone earlier described the BC - AB relationship as an "infatuation". Thats exactly what i was thinking....BC is consumed with this kid, thats either very good, or very very bad.
thank you for mentioning pittsnogle i know he won't replace charlie but personally i think he is the best value (being a rookie) you can get there and i really think he is better than what most think he is i watched a couple games he played in tournament he is tougher than advertised and his size should (i hope) help toronto's rebound/frontcourt a bit
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">Did anyone read my comments about Jose Calderon? (back on page 5) I'm just interested to hear your thoughts on that suggestion. I didnt really see him play last season at all, but from what I have seen (highlights, stats etc.), he seems like the pass first, shot creating guard that the Raptors wanted in T.J, if thats not the case though for Calderon, please clarfy that for me, as I said, I only caught climpses of him. To me, thats another major reason why this trade should'nt have gone through, not to mention Brevin Knight is a free agent, why not go after him? In my opinion, keeping that dominant front court together should've been your #1 priority.</div> He's a decent guard. He's just really inconsistent right now. One night he can look really good running the team, other nights he makes a ton of bad decisions and turns the ball over. Also, Calderon's shot is horrible. He can't even make open jumpers which is a problem because the other team doesn't even bother to cover him. He can take it to the basket fairly well though. A solid backup if he improves his shot but not starter material.
After some time away from JBB to think about the trade, I've come back slightly more in favour of it, than not. If it were a scale, it'd look like this: Not in favour [-----O-x---] In favour I definitely still have faith in Colangelo's plan and his GM'ing ability, which is more than could be said about Babcock after his first couple of moves. The major cons with this trade have nothing to do with the concept of it. The whole "big for small" complaint doesn't make sense, because we clearly had a logjam with our bigger positions. In fact, the whole idea of trading Villanueva shouldn't really come as a surprise. I felt, coming out of the draft, that it was fairly obvious that he would be traded. Just look at the 3/4's we had on our current roster (Bosh, Villanueva, Graham, Bargnani, Tucker, Humphries, Sow) compared to the 1/2's (Calderon, Peterson). CV had the most value and, about a week before the trade, I had already come to terms with the idea that we might have to move on without him. The fact is, we now have a more well-rounded roster, without sacrificing youth, and can address our new need through free agency (unlike our previous one). But, there are some legitimate concerns I have with this trade: 1. I would have preferred to keep Villanueva for perhaps a year longer, in case Bargnani turned out to be a complete bust. 2. I felt that Colangelo sort of rushed the trade and did not exploit the difference in value between Villanueva (coming off a high year) and Ford (coming off a down year). 3. I didn't want Villanueva to become a star on another team. All other concerns, IMO, were based on my own, somewhat biased, affinity towards a player who had a great story, had proven all the haters wrong, finished the best rookie season since VC, and had embraced the city of Toronto. But, none of those were really basketball-oriented, and had to be dismissed. I don't hate Colangelo for this move, like everyone else seems to be doing. If anything, this signals that the honeymoon is over now. BC's put himself in a more vulnerable position and will have to earn his money. It's easy to look good while winning the lottery and trading Hoffa/Eric Williams, but he now has to defend his vision and make some moves that we might not all agree with.
Wow you guys are some really pessimistic people. I bet the people that are praising CV like crazy right now where the ones doubting the pick last year saying he won't fit in with Bosh there. You never know until the season starts so PLEASE stop complaining and whining about the pick, we pciked up a solid up-tempo guard along the way, its not like we gave away our franchise player for absolutely nothing in return. Yes, the trade is seemingly for favourable for the Bucks but this was a gutsy move by BC and if thi is the trade that thrusts us as a team in his vision, then so be it. You won't like all of his moves, be it small or big. Many of you didn't like the Bonner trade, many of you didn't like the Rasho pickup, many of you didn't like the Andrea drafting and now a lot of yuou don't like this trade. Just be optimistic. It's not even about patience, it's about faith because YOU DON'T KNOW how it's going to turn out until you see them play and in action. I bet you by this time next year you same guys who are hating this trade will be up TJ Ford's ass if the Raptors start winning. It's not like the Raptors were gonna win the title now either way, it will take time and development. TJ Ford is a solid player and who knows, maybe BC has more trades up his sleeve to replace CV with some decent other players. Have patience and have faith and most of all WAIT UNTIL THE SEASON STARTS AND THEN COMPLAIN. I don't get the negativitiy already. It's not like TJ Ford is an unproven rookie who's a certified bust.
This is actually a good trade for the Raptors. TJ Ford is a true point guard that can be a great player in the future for the Raps. This lineup is finally taking an idenetity with Ford as the point. Good trade for both teams with the Bucks having Mo Williams at the point. Ford will be a good player.
Calderon is a similar player to Ford but Ford, with his quickness, can create more chaos in the passing lane on defense. With the Raptors looking to be a fast-break team, the opportunities that Ford's quick hands can create makes me drool. Many were expecting us to take Ford with the 4th pick in 2003, instead we got Bosh. Now we get both, it'll be a nice big/small combination for years to come. As for Charlie V, Dave Feschuk wrote an article today that rang true to my ears. Villanueva fit his scouting report to the millimeter. He didn't put much effort into defending, was an average rebounder, and had a tendency to disappear for long stretches. Reportedly, he was quoted as saying he was in the "best shape of his career", but still had a lot of flubber. The guy has potential, but I've always been of the impression that one of Charlie or Bosh would have to go anyways; Ford's acquisition puts us in a much better position to win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't get the negativitiy already. It's not like TJ Ford is an unproven rookie who's a certified bust.</div> no you're right, he's not a "unproven rookie who's a certified bust" He's a 3 year pro who's missed 1.5 years due to injury, had a weak last season amounting tons of turnovers and bad shots. Oh and did i mention that this is his last year before the Raps have to make a qualifying offer? Unlike Charlie who's got 3 more till that time. Its a bad trade, i dont care what we needed, who we had in what position..we didnt get fair market value. This percieved "log jam" is what annoys me most. Sure we have more forwards than gaurds...but when you're talking about starter worthy forwards we have 2. Bosh and CV31....AB is a rookie, what if it doesnt work out, what do we have then? We've got Bosh and um....err....Joey Graham? Please dont give me this Sow, Tucker, Humphries crap...none of them deserve to be anywhere near a starter spot right now. If AB doesnt adapt quickly, or if either him or Bosh get injured we're screwed in the forward spot. Bad trade...some of you just think everything BC touches is gold NOTE : i still say that Ford will be good with Toronto, but that BC rushed this trade....there's no way the best we could of gotten was Ford. we'll have to see how it works out
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">no you're right, he's not a "unproven rookie who's a certified bust" He's a 3 year pro who's missed 1.5 years due to injury, had a weak last season amounting tons of turnovers and bad shots. Oh and did i mention that this is his last year before the Raps have to make a qualifying offer? Unlike Charlie who's got 3 more till that time. Its a bad trade, i dont care what we needed, who we had in what position..we didnt get fair market value. This percieved "log jam" is what annoys me most. Sure we have more forwards than gaurds...but when you're talking about starter worthy forwards we have 2. Bosh and CV31....AB is a rookie, what if it doesnt work out, what do we have then? We've got Bosh and um....err....Joey Graham? Please dont give me this Sow, Tucker, Humphries crap...none of them deserve to be anywhere near a starter spot right now. If AB doesnt adapt quickly, or if either him or Bosh get injured we're screwed in the forward spot. Bad trade...some of you just think everything BC touches is gold NOTE : i still say that Ford will be good with Toronto, but that BC rushed this trade....there's no way the best we could of gotten was Ford. we'll have to see how it works out</div> There was a logjam, and part of the reason it was such a problem coming into the offseason is that we had absolutely nothing at the 1 and 2. We had arguably 8 forwards that had somewhat redundant playing styles (Bosh, Humphries, Villanueva, Bargnani, Graham, Tucker, Garbajosa, Sow). Don't you see the huge disparity we had between our guards and forwards? Only Peterson and Calderon were guaranteed to come back. And, you're acting like this is our finished product. We still have about 13 mill in cap space to fill the 3. I'm much more confident with BC spending money for a 3 than a 1, considering the lack of any good PG's on the market. The only legitimate complaint I see is that we didn't get enough for Villanueva. That is definitely valid and I certainly agree with it. However, I love how this trade suddenly allows us to push for a playoff spot without sacrificing any youth or taking on a bad contract. When it's all said and done, I think we would have had to choose between Bosh and Villanueva in the long run anyway. And I'm glad that we obtained a guard who addresses needs that this franchise has always had and who's value will only go up with time.
