give him half a season playing with Collison in the post rather than Radman... and see if things are different. It's hard to win on a squad when there's 4 guys behind the 3 point line and 1 guy going for the board on every possession.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bosnian:</div><div class="quote_post">You people are missing the main point here Payton had led sonics to the playoffs in like all his seasons here in seattle i think how many times has Ray done that</div> You say that, yet you give two of the reasons for Ray being bad for the Sonics as 'he tries to do it all sometimes' and 'he becomes a shadow for Rashard Lewis'. So, keeping that in mind, what would you say about Payton? He was exactly the same, arguably to a higher extent, than Ray.
You are right but payton at least made the team make the playoffs didnt they win 44 games the season before Payton Left
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bosnian:</div><div class="quote_post">You are right but payton at least made the team make the playoffs didnt they win 44 games the season before Payton Left</div> With Payton playing the whole season, Brent Barry playing the whole season and Desmond Mason a legitimate 6th man candidate bringing toughness and defense to the table.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">With Payton playing the whole season, Brent Barry playing the whole season and Desmond Mason a legitimate 6th man candidate bringing toughness and defense to the table.</div> See thats Why i Think Ray Allen is a bust for us because they traded a lot of good players for him I thought Mason was a good player 2 they should make some changes in the Managment Because overall i think it was a stupid trade they gave up Desmond Mason a superstar in the making
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bosnian:</div><div class="quote_post">See thats Why i Think Ray Allen is a bust for us because they traded a lot of good players for him I thought Mason was a good player 2 they should make some changes in the Managment Because overall i think it was a stupid trade they gave up Desmond Mason a superstar in the making</div> So you would rather have an aging Gary Payton who couldn't even average 5 points per game in the finals? You aren't a bust when you averaging 23,5 and 5 as a Sonic.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">So you would rather have an aging Gary Payton who couldn't even average 5 points per game in the finals? You aren't a bust when you averaging 23,5 and 5 as a Sonic.</div> Stats dont Matter its the Wins that matter even if a guy averaged 1 point a game and his team still won he would be a great player if he helped his team win
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bosnian:</div><div class="quote_post">Stats dont Matter its the Wins that matter even if a guy averaged 1 point a game and his team still won he would be a great player if he helped his team win </div> Terrible logic there, Only Jason Kidd and Ben Wallace I can safely say don't need to score for their team to win games. Stats do matter a whole deal, If they didn't we would still have guys like Chris Dudley playing. You have yet to give one reason why Ray Allen is a bust for the Sonics, the guy has put up 22,5 and 5...he just doesn't have the inside support to make the Sonics contenders. Thats the managements fault not his.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bosnian:</div><div class="quote_post">Stats dont Matter its the Wins that matter even if a guy averaged 1 point a game and his team still won he would be a great player if he helped his team win </div> Well at the time of the Payton trade, the Sonics were slumping badly, and Payton's feuds with management were getting very messy. When we made the trade, Seattle went 18-10 over the last 28 games of the season, and Ray's injury at the start of this season really set us back, despite Flip's heroics. I hated trading Desmond back then and I still hate the fact we traded him, but you can't compare today's Seattle team from the one two seasons ago - it's not that black and white.
