I do love this deal my friend is now a Celtic Fan (Just because of Ray Ray but thats cool with me more makes me happy) (my friend lives Arizona he loves 3s to by the way)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camby23Land @ Jun 29 2007, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Off topic, but why did you just not come here all of a sudden?</div>I think I just kind of grew out of forums. I don't really spend too much time on computers anymore. plus, to be honest I hadn't been watching too much basketball when I stopped posting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yahoo! SportsNEW YORK ? Somehow, the Boston Celtics have turned into the old Clippers and Kings, the destination of displeasure for the NBA's privileged players. When the prospect of a trade is delivered to players, they insist that they want no part of playing under those old, dusty 16 championship banners. No, Larry Bird isn't walking through that door, nor Robert Parish, nor Kevin McHale. As it turns out, this is true of Kevin Garnett and Shawn Marion and Jermaine O'Neal. Among them, they have no championships, but they still found the Celtics an unacceptable destination. Desperate for someone, anyone, to take back the fifth pick in the NBA draft Thursday night, Ainge settled for Seattle's Ray Allen. Almost 32, with surgery to both his ankles, Allen is a yesterday All-Star who'll forever shoot that sweet jumper and score, and never again defend. "Let me ask you," an Eastern Conference veteran player said Thursday night, "who is going to make anyone better on that team? Doc Rivers will run a play for (Paul) Pierce, and then he'll run a play for Ray Allen. They won't make each other better, and who there is going to make Al Jefferson any better? "Delonte West was the one kid who could've done that, and they went and traded him away, too." There's no vision, no plan ? just so much thrown together out of desperation. Maybe the Celtics steal the eighth spot in the East, maybe they slip back to the lottery, but they're going nowhere. They did hold onto Theo Ratliff's expiring $11 million contract, and maybe, just maybe, they'll turn that into the maxed-out mess of Utah's Andrei Kirilenko. Allen isn't washed up, but he's no longer one of the NBA's elite players. Perhaps this will be enough to appease Pierce and keep him from asking out of Boston, but he's no fool. This was just a move of survival out of Ainge, perhaps enough to get him and his coach, Doc Rivers, through one more season in Boston. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This was an article I found written by Wojnawrowski. He makes some good points.
I kinda like it. Even though it knocks back my hopes of Green being a starter (most likely), the trade sort of does make sense. Here's my guess of what the lineups will be like:StartersPG RondoSG R AllenSF PiercePF GomesC JeffersonBenchPG TelfairSG T AllenSF GreenPF Powe/ScalabrineC PerkinsC'mon it sort of works right? Hopefully we can pick up another big man this off season, gasol or JO would be nice.
I think we gave up a little too much, I definitely think that we may have gone a little overboard by throwing Delonte in there. I obviously would have preferred Telfair to go, but at the end of the day, I don't mind this deal at all. I have always been a big Ray Allen fan, so we brought in a player that I really like. I know he's turning 32 in a month and I know that he has some knee issues, but here's the thing with Ray Allen... he doesn't get by with athleticism and physical attributes. His basketball IQ, leadership, and jump shot are not going anywhere. I think he's got a lot of basketball left in him at this level (or pretty damn close to it). He's going to be a quality player until he hangs it up, and I think he has 3-4 years left in him around this level. I'm pretty happy. I'll miss the hell out of Delonte, I obviously love Jeff Green and think he'll be a good player, but we got ourselves a star without trading our top 3 pieces (Pierce, Jefferson, Rondo). Our roster is still intact, and like Danny Ainge said... he is NOT done dealing this summer.
GrizzlyFan, that article is absolutely retarted, he makes 0 good points in that. Last week, Ray Allen was a great, all-star clibar player. Now that he's been traded to the Celtics, people all of a sudden call him injury plagued and this and that. This article written by Wojnawoski of course, the same person who pretty much made up that rumor of Paul Pierce demanding a trade. It was confirmed by the Herald that Pierce never demanded a trade by Doc Rivers/Danny Ainge. This guy never has columns with quotes from people, he's always hiding behind the sources/this player/that player/ bullsh**, he never has direct quotes in any of his stories. I wonder who that Eastern Conference player is? Probably a former Celtic, like Antoine Walker or Gary Payton who love to bash the Celtics at any chance they can get. I love the quote about Delonte West, like he was the Celtics savior or something, if Delonte was supposed to make players better, why the hell didn't he do it last season? At no point in that article does he talk about how Boston dealt away Wally LaFrentz, who also had a bad contract and injuries that are 10X worse than Ray Allen's. This writer is an absolute idiot and if you think he makes good points you're being fooled. This guy is basically implying that Ray Allen sucks when you get right down do it. It's a total disrespect to the guy who has been nothing but a consumate professional his entire career and has also kept himself in outstanding shape. If the Celtics took the #5 pick, he'd have a column about how stupid Boston was for taking a #5 guy and how they should have made a deal to bring in a veteran.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Jun 29 2007, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GrizzlyFan, that article is absolutely retarted, he makes 0 good points in that. Last week, Ray Allen was a great, all-star clibar player. Now that he's been traded to the Celtics, people all of a sudden call him injury plagued and this and that. This article written by Wojnawoski of course, the same person who pretty much made up that rumor of Paul Pierce demanding a trade. It was confirmed by the Herald that Pierce never demanded a trade by Doc Rivers/Danny Ainge. This guy never has columns with quotes from people, he's always hiding behind the sources/this player/that player/ bullsh**, he never has direct quotes in any of his stories. I wonder who that Eastern Conference player is? Probably a former Celtic, like Antoine Walker or Gary Payton who love to bash the Celtics at any chance they can get. I love the quote about Delonte West, like he was the Celtics savior or something, if Delonte was supposed to make players better, why the hell didn't he do it last season? At no point in that article does he talk about how Boston dealt away Wally LaFrentz, who also had a bad contract and injuries that are 10X worse than Ray Allen's. This writer is an absolute idiot and if you think he makes good points you're being fooled. This guy is basically implying that Ray Allen sucks when you get right down do it. It's a total disrespect to the guy who has been nothing but a consumate professional his entire career and has also kept himself in outstanding shape. If the Celtics took the #5 pick, he'd have a column about how stupid Boston was for taking a #5 guy and how they should have made a deal to bring in a veteran.</div> :worthy: I couldn't have said it better myself, WTJ. Excellent post.
you guys as so full of it.you decried every big deal that was rumored saying KG is too old, he won't put us in contention.Marion doesn't bring what we needJO is injury proneRashard scores and that's it and then we finally make a move, the worst one possible outta all the rumors, and you jokers are okay with it.sounds hypocritical to me.I advocated a move, but a smart one that makes us definitely better.This makes us marginally better and it just sounds like you're talking yourselves into it.convincing yourself that it's an alright move to give up a chance to have Jeff Green, Noah, Brewer.CB32, your seriously alright with Ainge not drafting Green to keep but getting Ray 12 years older Allen in return? You're pretty happy with that?come on, this is exactly what most Celts fans on here were railing against, a quick fix that makes us mediocre and gives away a top 5 pick to do it.where's all the long haul guys now?!and yeah I can 'guess what, those trades weren't happening' yadda yadda, but most people on here were against the rumors.as soon a shittier trade becomes reality, you fall for it hook line and sinker.enjoy next year, after that it's a crap shoot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Jun 29 2007, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GrizzlyFan, that article is absolutely retarted, he makes 0 good points in that. Last week, Ray Allen was a great, all-star clibar player. Now that he's been traded to the Celtics, people all of a sudden call him injury plagued and this and that.</div>HA! and what were most of you saying about 31 yr old KG?!!?you know the 3rd team all-nba player this year.
I grabbed a quote from Ray Allen of the C's press release:"I could not be more excited about coming to Boston to play for the Celtics." said Allen. "I am glad to be back in the New England area and cannot wait to get onto the floor with players the caliber of Paul Pierce and Al Jefferson."That's important right there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRob-50-Forever @ Jun 29 2007, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I grabbed a quote from Ray Allen of the C's press release: "I could not be more excited about coming to Boston to play for the Celtics." said Allen. "I am glad to be back in the New England area and cannot wait to get onto the floor with players the caliber of Paul Pierce and Al Jefferson." That's important right there.</div> It is, a star that WANTS to be here. I love it. And CelticFan, the other potential deals were much different. We'd have to give up more for those guys and the fact that we were able to put Wally in this deal instead of Theo (who is still a valuable trading chip) was big. Not to mention, those other guys didn't want to be here. Like DRob just posted, Ray Allen actually wants to be here. I think he fits, I think he compliments Paul nicely on the perimeter, and he's a veteran leader that has also been to the Conference Finals. We just got ourselves an All-Star, who I believe is the very best shooter in the NBA, without giving up our top 3 prospects (Al, Rondo, Gerald) or our giant expiring contract. We are still in position to make another move that will benefit this team with Theo's contract, future picks, and a player. And again, I still think Ray has 3-4 excellent years ahead of him, and he'll still be a contributor at age 36-37, IMO.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 29 2007, 06:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think we gave up a little too much, I definitely think that we may have gone a little overboard by throwing Delonte in there. I obviously would have preferred Telfair to go, but at the end of the day, I don't mind this deal at all. I have always been a big Ray Allen fan, so we brought in a player that I really like. I know he's turning 32 in a month and I know that he has some knee issues, but here's the thing with Ray Allen... he doesn't get by with athleticism and physical attributes. His basketball IQ, leadership, and jump shot are not going anywhere. I think he's got a lot of basketball left in him at this level (or pretty damn close to it). He's going to be a quality player until he hangs it up, and I think he has 3-4 years left in him around this level.I'm pretty happy. I'll miss the hell out of Delonte, I obviously love Jeff Green and think he'll be a good player, but we got ourselves a star without trading our top 3 pieces (Pierce, Jefferson, Rondo). Our roster is still intact, and like Danny Ainge said... he is NOT done dealing this summer.</div>We probably had to give them Delonte in order to get them to take Sczerbiak instead of Theo. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 29 2007, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you guys as so full of it.you decried every big deal that was rumored saying KG is too old, he won't put us in contention.Marion doesn't bring what we needJO is injury proneRashard scores and that's it and then we finally make a move, the worst one possible outta all the rumors, and you jokers are okay with it.sounds hypocritical to me.I advocated a move, but a smart one that makes us definitely better.This makes us marginally better and it just sounds like you're talking yourselves into it.convincing yourself that it's an alright move to give up a chance to have Jeff Green, Noah, Brewer.CB32, your seriously alright with Ainge not drafting Green to keep but getting Ray 12 years older Allen in return? You're pretty happy with that?come on, this is exactly what most Celts fans on here were railing against, a quick fix that makes us mediocre and gives away a top 5 pick to do it.where's all the long haul guys now?!and yeah I can 'guess what, those trades weren't happening' yadda yadda, but most people on here were against the rumors.as soon a shittier trade becomes reality, you fall for it hook line and sinker.enjoy next year, after that it's a crap shoot.</div>I liked all those deals except Marion because he'd just leave, and KG because we give up all our trading pieces and Big Al, but this one gives us an all-star and has the added bonus of keeping Ratliff's deal and dumping Wally. This team is now one move away from becoming a contender for the East, and Ratliff is the piece that can make that move happen. All the long haul guys changed their tune when they realized pissing of Pierce and getting half of what he's worth screws us both in the short-term and the long-haul.I will enjoy next season, and all the ones after it. If we followed your plan we wouldn't enjoy next season or any of the subsequent ones as the team would continue to rebuild without a legit franchise guy.
I would take Ray Allen with Big Al and Green over KG for Big Al and Green anyday. The more I think about this trade and look at it on paper, I really like it. Delonte West became one of my favorite players but I think Pruitt can fill his shoes nicely. With Allen being here now it actually makes more sense that West was included because it free's up the minutes. I also love that Ray recognizes Big Al in his statment about playing in Boston.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>HA! and what were most of you saying about 31 yr old KG?!!?you know the 3rd team all-nba player this year.</div>CelticFan, I never said anything about Kevin Garnett. The guy is insanely good, I would want him but I wouldn't give up AL J for him. So I don't know where you're going with that. CelticFan you also don't know what is ahead. I doubt this is the last deal that is going to be made to make this team better. I would find that hard to believe, but I really don't see why you're bitching. For months, I have been pleading for Ainge to bring in a veteran. He finally did that, I got my wish. I'm not apart of your "Long haul" nonsense or whatever the hell you're talking about. I'm sick of drafting young guys and watching them go nowhere. When the hell do you want the Celtics to compete in the playoffs CFan, 2015? You can't keep drafting young guys like Jeff Green, Noah, or whoever you wanted and hope that 5 years down the road they gell into something. It doesn't work that way in the NBA, you need to get veterans to mix with the young guys so they have some direction and can learn. I'm not fooling myself on this deal at all, you get Ray Allen, a guy who is militant with his workouts, doesn't drink and prides himself on being an incredible athlete. You can't say that Ray Allen is some geezer, he's a 7-time all-star and is coming off the best statistical scoring year of his career. This ankle surgery is getting way overblown, he had surgery to remove bone spurs that were causing him pain, it's not like he had arthroscopic knee surgery. And by the way you wanna talk about surgery? What about Wally f*cking Sczcerbiak? This guy can't get out of bed in the morning without breaking a bone. You get him and his huge deal out of here and Delonte West. I liked Delonte as a player, but to be honest, what is he? He never fit anywhere in Boston. He would have some good games but was a 1, then he wasn't, then he was a 2, then he was playing a mixture of roles, he was always moving around in the lineups and never fit in anywhere. Delonte is better off playing on a team like Seattle that is having a legitimate overhaul. I'm not just playing the company line with the Boston Celtics, this move made sense, it's what a lot of Celtics fans have been waiting for, and Paul Pierce finally gets some much needed veteran help.
I dont like this trade for Boston. You guys are basically living the Antoine Walker days all over again, just Ray Allen is a better scorer. You saw how players like Pierce and Walker couldnt share the shots and Walker was traded twice. Over half the shots attempted by Ray Allen are 3 pointers. You cant have two offensive minded forwards/gaurds on the same team. Especially when neithier are playmakers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jun 29 2007, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont like this trade for Boston. You guys are basically living the Antoine Walker days all over again, just Ray Allen is a better scorer.</div>yes, Ray allen is better. God, why do people compare this to antoine walker? Ray Allen is still a very good player! he was on the all-star team in 2006. Antoine walker was a fat, slow chucker who didn't have a left hand to save his life. There is definitely a difference. Paul Pierce got what 5, 6 apg last year? I don't know the numbers, but you can't say that he can't create for his teammates. This guy's had plenty of triple-doubles to prove that he can. Big Al is still going to get plenty of looks in the offense. If anything, having a stellar shooter like Allen will free the lane for Al to work in.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WELCOMEtotheJUNGLE @ Jun 29 2007, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>GrizzlyFan, that article is absolutely retarted, he makes 0 good points in that. Last week, Ray Allen was a great, all-star clibar player. Now that he's been traded to the Celtics, people all of a sudden call him injury plagued and this and that. This article written by Wojnawoski of course, the same person who pretty much made up that rumor of Paul Pierce demanding a trade. It was confirmed by the Herald that Pierce never demanded a trade by Doc Rivers/Danny Ainge. This guy never has columns with quotes from people, he's always hiding behind the sources/this player/that player/ bullsh**, he never has direct quotes in any of his stories. I wonder who that Eastern Conference player is? Probably a former Celtic, like Antoine Walker or Gary Payton who love to bash the Celtics at any chance they can get. I love the quote about Delonte West, like he was the Celtics savior or something, if Delonte was supposed to make players better, why the hell didn't he do it last season? At no point in that article does he talk about how Boston dealt away Wally LaFrentz, who also had a bad contract and injuries that are 10X worse than Ray Allen's. This writer is an absolute idiot and if you think he makes good points you're being fooled. This guy is basically implying that Ray Allen sucks when you get right down do it. It's a total disrespect to the guy who has been nothing but a consumate professional his entire career and has also kept himself in outstanding shape. If the Celtics took the #5 pick, he'd have a column about how stupid Boston was for taking a #5 guy and how they should have made a deal to bring in a veteran.</div> :worthy: well said, my friend, well f*cking said.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (time takes time @ Jun 29 2007, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>yes, Ray allen is better. God, why do people compare this to antoine walker? Ray Allen is still a very good player! he was on the all-star team in 2006. Antoine walker was a fat, slow chucker who didn't have a left hand to save his life. There is definitely a difference. Paul Pierce got what 5, 6 apg last year? I don't know the numbers, but you can't say that he can't create for his teammates. This guy's had plenty of triple-doubles to prove that he can. Big Al is still going to get plenty of looks in the offense. If anything, having a stellar shooter like Allen will free the lane for Al to work in.</div>Because there will not be enough ball movement for them to be facilitators on offense. Ill show you, in 2001-02 when Boston went to the ECF, Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker attempted about 3287 FG's together. the rest of the celtics WHOLE TEAM attempted about 3384. Not to mention in the playoffs it was much worse. It just doesn't promote ball movement at all if both are on the floor.
That's because they had Eric Williams and Kenny Anderson to help them score. Now they have a true point guard in rajon rondo that can find them in their spots (mostly ray allen here), and now the celtics also have a real low-post presence to secure a half-court offense. When things get shaky in the half-court we can always isolate Big Al. He's a very efficient scorer in the low-post, very reliable.Not to mention since 2001-02, Paul has matured a lot. He's not taking nearly as many stupid shots. look it up, his field goal attempts have gone WAY down in past years.By your post you're telling me that basically you think there should only be one all-star caliber player in boston because when there is two, they take all the shots from the other players, right? well, let me tell you.. HAVING ONE STAR DEFINITELY DIDN'T WORK.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (time takes time @ Jun 29 2007, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's because they had Eric Williams and Kenny Anderson to help them score. Now they have a true point guard in rajon rondo that can find them in their spots (mostly ray allen here), and now the celtics also have a real low-post presence to secure a half-court offense. When things get shaky in the half-court we can always isolate Big Al. He's a very efficient scorer in the low-post, very reliable.Not to mention since 2001-02, Paul has matured a lot. He's not taking nearly as many stupid shots. look it up, his field goal attempts have gone WAY down in past years.By your post you're telling me that basically you think there should only be one all-star caliber player in boston because when there is two, they take all the shots from the other players, right? well, let me tell you.. HAVING ONE STAR DEFINITELY DIDN'T WORK.</div>Thats not the way I look at it. You dont bring in another player to help your ailing franchise whos almost identical to Paul Pierce in how much shots they shoot per game and where they like the ball. Paul will be forced to play inside, and Rondo and Jefferson wont have nearly as much opportunities like last year, partly because, they just wont need too. You will see Rondo develop into more of a pass first PG than before, and Jefferson's rebounding go up, but not their scoring. I didnt like the Nuggets situation, but this could be different. But like the Nuggets, you dont bring in a 30 PPG scorer to help another 30 PPG scorer. When was the last championship team to do that?
