Ray Allen shot about as much as Paul Pierce because he was a franchise player, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. Now that he's with another star, he'll have to slow down his shot. He's a humble player and I believe he will accept the face that he will have to play second chair to pierce. Rondo will be "more of a pass first" guard? what? he's already completely a pass first guard. In fact, some people considered it his weakness that he couldn't shoot, or that he wasn't a good enough scorer. and if "they won't need to", then what is the problem that we're looking at here? if a better player is taking up their shots, then what is your point? Plus, Al Jefferson, not to mention Gomes are both very good offensive rebounders. Even if Pierce and Allen miss, Gomes and Al can get second and third opportunities to score.and as for a championship, I never said I was looking for one. to expect a championship out of any team that just finished second to las in the league last year is unrealistic. This trade makes our team better, and if you want to say this, it's one step towards a championship.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redsoxrock04 @ Jun 29 2007, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>RaptorFan#1 your just mad because u wont win the divison next year (knock on wood)</div> I hate when people say that. I dont care if we win the Atlantic, were still making the playoffs, its not a question.
Ray Allen is a jump shooter who doesn't need to control the ball to be effective. Saying he and Pierce won't be able to co-exist is just idiotic. Of course neither guy will be taking as many shots as they had previously, but they'll make that concession if it means winning more games. Pierce and Allen aren't stat freaks obsessed with winning scoring titles, breaking records, or getting endorsements. The Walker comparison is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Antione was a PF who wanted to be a guard. He'd sit out on the perimeter and rain 3's forgetting that he was at best an average shooter from behind the arc. Allen is one of the best shooters the league has ever seen. Pierce kicking it out to him will be beautiful. When was the last championship team to add another franchise player to get them over the hump? Well there was the Pistons in 04 with Rasheed, the Rockets in 95 with Drexler, and the Knicks in the 70's when they combined Frazier and Monroe. It's been done before.
from Bill Simmons at ESPN and live draft diary"Thanks to rumors that the Celtics might trade the No. 5 pick, Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West for a soon-to-be 32-year-old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgeries (Ray Allen), I just spent the last 20 minutes on basketball-reference.com trying to find one great shooting guard who didn't decline significantly in Years 12 through 14 of his NBA career. Here's the list: Reggie Miller. That's it. Also, I just threw up in my mouth and some of it went up the back of my nose.""Unless there's another major move coming -- and Lord, let's hope so -- are we really contending for the title in 2008 or 2009 with Pierce, Jefferson, Allen, Doc Rivers and nine unproven young guys? Are we even winning 47 games? Three seasons from now, if you're watching Doc and Danny Ainge announcing the same TNT game, then you flick channels and see a broken-down Ray Allen jogging around a half-empty TD Banknorth Center at age 34, you'll think of me. I promise you.""To be clear, I'm a big Allen fan: He's an excellent player; he always wanted to play in Boston (unlike everyone else in the league); I would have loved this trade if he were 28 or 29; and it's hard to top the comedy of Ray Allen and Allan Ray playing for the same team. Here's the problem: Allen's draft class was the year before I wrote my first draft diary. His movie ("He Got Game") came out nearly a decade ago. He played at UConn with Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall and Doron Sheffer. This guy is not a spring chicken -- just look at his hairline, for cripes' sake. This feels like Mitch Richmond going to the Bullets for C-Webb all over again. I'm somewhere between "quitting coffee and trying to make it through Day 3" rattled and "waiting for the results of an HIV test" rattled""Marc Stein sends me an e-mail about the Allen trade that ends, "It could have turned out worse." Great. That's just the celebratory e-mail I was hoping for on draft night: "It could have turned out worse."""I'm busy trying to find the right adjective for my father on the phone right now. Beaten down? Distraught? Perplexed? Horrified? Apoplectic? All of them fit. He's absolutely appalled by the Allen trade."Shooting guards always lose their legs when they hit 32 or 33!" Dad yelps. "It happens to all of them. They can't avoid it. Make sure you put in your column that we traded the fifth and seventh picks in consecutive years for a point guard who was too short and a shooting guard who was too old. Put that in your column. Put it in. I hate this trade."""I'm starting to cheer up. Pierce, Jefferson and Allen ? maybe I can talk myself into this. That's not a bad top three, you have to admit. (By the way, I'm drinking heavily. Just so you know.)"I'm in agreement with these comments too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 29 2007, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ray Allen is a jump shooter who doesn't need to control the ball to be effective. Saying he and Pierce won't be able to co-exist is just idiotic. Of course neither guy will be taking as many shots as they had previously, but they'll make that concession if it means winning more games. Pierce and Allen aren't stat freaks obsessed with winning scoring titles, breaking records, or getting endorsements. The Walker comparison is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Antione was a PF who wanted to be a guard. He'd sit out on the perimeter and rain 3's forgetting that he was at best an average shooter from behind the arc. Allen is one of the best shooters the league has ever seen. Pierce kicking it out to him will be beautiful. When was the last championship team to add another franchise player to get them over the hump? Well there was the Pistons in 04 with Rasheed, the Rockets in 95 with Drexler, and the Knicks in the 70's when they combined Frazier and Monroe. It's been done before.</div>I dont think you understand that the Celtics have been through this before, like ive said, when Walker was in bean town, he shot as much as pierce and him and pierce combined shot as much as the rest of the team. Ray Allen is the same thing, they dont compliment each other. Its also like Lebron James and Larry Hughes, who are exact copies of eachother, playmakers who can score and play forward. The Rockets added Drexler to compliment Hakeem's game, someone to set him up downlow. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen can both play the same position, you just dont have 2 of the same all star in the same position.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jun 29 2007, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont think you understand that the Celtics have been through this before, like ive said, when Walker was in bean town, he shot as much as pierce and him and pierce combined shot as much as the rest of the team. Ray Allen is the same thing, they dont compliment each other. Its also like Lebron James and Larry Hughes, who are exact copies of eachother, playmakers who can score and play forward. The Rockets added Drexler to compliment Hakeem's game, someone to set him up downlow. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen can both play the same position, you just dont have 2 of the same all star in the same position.</div>he doesn't know? I wouldn't have said that one. Why can't you understand that there is definitely a difference. both pierce and Walker were shooting in the 30%s back then, Ray and Pierce now shot mid 40s to high 40s. That's a much, much better percentage. plus, like I said with the offensive rebounding. I guess that's why you didn't respond to that part. and did you just say larry hughes and lebron james are the same player? come on! that's ridiculous. Larry Hughes' role on that team was somewhat of a distributor and a scrappy defender. LeBron's role was the offense.Ray Allen's game compliments Pierce's, whether you like it or not. A one-on-one type of player like Pierce needs a shooter to free up the reigns for him. We've been trying to bring in a reliable shooter for years, and we finally did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 29 2007, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>from Bill Simmons at ESPN and live draft diary"Thanks to rumors that the Celtics might trade the No. 5 pick, Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West for a soon-to-be 32-year-old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgeries (Ray Allen), I just spent the last 20 minutes on basketball-reference.com trying to find one great shooting guard who didn't decline significantly in Years 12 through 14 of his NBA career. Here's the list: Reggie Miller. That's it. Also, I just threw up in my mouth and some of it went up the back of my nose.""Unless there's another major move coming -- and Lord, let's hope so -- are we really contending for the title in 2008 or 2009 with Pierce, Jefferson, Allen, Doc Rivers and nine unproven young guys? Are we even winning 47 games? Three seasons from now, if you're watching Doc and Danny Ainge announcing the same TNT game, then you flick channels and see a broken-down Ray Allen jogging around a half-empty TD Banknorth Center at age 34, you'll think of me. I promise you.""To be clear, I'm a big Allen fan: He's an excellent player; he always wanted to play in Boston (unlike everyone else in the league); I would have loved this trade if he were 28 or 29; and it's hard to top the comedy of Ray Allen and Allan Ray playing for the same team. Here's the problem: Allen's draft class was the year before I wrote my first draft diary. His movie ("He Got Game") came out nearly a decade ago. He played at UConn with Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall and Doron Sheffer. This guy is not a spring chicken -- just look at his hairline, for cripes' sake. This feels like Mitch Richmond going to the Bullets for C-Webb all over again. I'm somewhere between "quitting coffee and trying to make it through Day 3" rattled and "waiting for the results of an HIV test" rattled""Marc Stein sends me an e-mail about the Allen trade that ends, "It could have turned out worse." Great. That's just the celebratory e-mail I was hoping for on draft night: "It could have turned out worse."""I'm busy trying to find the right adjective for my father on the phone right now. Beaten down? Distraught? Perplexed? Horrified? Apoplectic? All of them fit. He's absolutely appalled by the Allen trade."Shooting guards always lose their legs when they hit 32 or 33!" Dad yelps. "It happens to all of them. They can't avoid it. Make sure you put in your column that we traded the fifth and seventh picks in consecutive years for a point guard who was too short and a shooting guard who was too old. Put that in your column. Put it in. I hate this trade."""I'm starting to cheer up. Pierce, Jefferson and Allen ? maybe I can talk myself into this. That's not a bad top three, you have to admit. (By the way, I'm drinking heavily. Just so you know.)"I'm in agreement with these comments too.</div>Reggie Miller lasted because of his legendary shooting ability. Ray Allen's best asset is his jump shot, and is one of the best pure shooters of the past decade. He's not going to fall off a cliff like Antione Walker or Gary Payton. As for the surgery, it was to remove BONE SPURS! Al Jefferson had the exact same thing done and he's fine. You'd think these media guys could do the simplest research before forming opinions on these things. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jun 29 2007, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont think you understand that the Celtics have been through this before, like ive said, when Walker was in bean town, he shot as much as pierce and him and pierce combined shot as much as the rest of the team. Ray Allen is the same thing, they dont compliment each other. Its also like Lebron James and Larry Hughes, who are exact copies of eachother, playmakers who can score and play forward. The Rockets added Drexler to compliment Hakeem's game, someone to set him up downlow. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen can both play the same position, you just dont have 2 of the same all star in the same position.</div>You've either never seen one of these guys play or just don't understand basketball. Pierce can play the 3 and Allen cannot. Allen can score without dominating the ball while Pierce cannot. Pierce and LEbron are similar, but Allen and Hughes are absolutely nothing alike. Hughes failed in Cleveland because he needed to be a jump shooter, and that's not his game. Ray Allen IS a jump shooter. Just stop talking because by comparing Allen to Walker all you do is make yourself look dumb.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 29 2007, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Reggie Miller lasted because of his legendary shooting ability. Ray Allen's best asset is his jump shot, and is one of the best pure shooters of the past decade. He's not going to fall off a cliff like Antione Walker or Gary Payton. As for the surgery, it was to remove BONE SPURS! Al Jefferson had the exact same thing done and he's fine. You'd think these media guys could do the simplest research before forming opinions on these things. You've either never seen one of these guys play or just don't understand basketball. Pierce can play the 3 and Allen cannot. Allen can score without dominating the ball while Pierce cannot. Pierce and LEbron are similar, but Allen and Hughes are absolutely nothing alike. Hughes failed in Cleveland because he needed to be a jump shooter, and that's not his game. Ray Allen IS a jump shooter. Just stop talking because by comparing Allen to Walker all you do is make yourself look dumb.</div>on the simmons article, about the incredible shooting, I guess some people forget that Ray Allen is #2 all-time (or is it third, I'm not positive. I know he and dale ellis are second and third) on the 3-pointers made list, behind Reggie Miller. He very well may pass Reggie by the time his career is over. I normally like Simmons' writing but he's just being way too pessimistic here.
Hi Im from Seattle, and I was wondering what Boston Fans thought about the trade. Alot of fans here in Seattle have alot of mix feelings as the same with Boston Fans.First off I want to say Ray was our leader , our heart and soul of Seattle. We love him very very much, probably as much as the love for Pierce in Boston. On draft day at the Seattle Center, fans cheered as we drafted Durant, and within minutes booed about Ray Allen's departure to Boston. Allen is a team player! He has very good characteristics, great leader, role model, and is like a big brother to alot of young players on the Sonics. You can not ask for a better guy to be on your team like Ray Allen. If you ever watched a Sonics game, even though when they lose, Ray would gathers up all of our players in a circle on the court to motivate them to keep there heads up and play harder for the next game. Most teams would just leave and walk to the lockerrooms as indivduals but, the Sonics left in unison to the locker rooms in every game because of Ray's leadership to the team. Im not saying that Ray is going over there to take over leadership, but he has good character, and he also stated he understands that Boston is Pierce's team, and he's like a chameleon he will adapt to his new environment, and will do anything to help Boston win! He's happy to be back in the eastcoast with his family, and happy to play ball where he started.I read alot of Boston Fans complaining this to a Pierce/Walker comparision. Come on' Walker is a cry baby, and couldnt co-exsist with Pierce. Allen is nowhere near that. Allen shares the ball well in Seattle, and he will open alot of shots and scoring oppurtunity for Boston. He is a professional and team player. Allen had alot to do with helping Rashard Lewis develop his game to what he has became now. I feel that Allen will do the same with the young players in Boston.Yes, Allen went through surgery, but it was only to remove bone spurs on his ankle he has recovered well and is ready to play. He has good work ethics! You will see that Allen is a good fit in Boston. Oh.. hes turning 32?? Lets just say Allen is one of the leagues best and pure shooter. He has one of the best form and release. Great shooters last a long time in the league. Allen still has about 4-5 more yrs left in him. Dont over look or underestimate him. Allen is an underrated player, just look at his numbers.I understand that Ray has a big contract, but dont think Seattle is happy with Wallys either. Wally who??? You pay him how much? To do what? I havent heard much about West but from the forums I've been reading in Boston, he's pretty good.Me personally I was upset about the trade along with half the people in Seattle, but I understand now that the Sonics needed to rebuild, and there was no better time for us to do that then now. In the last 5yrs we had 1 winning season. We had ONE Championship in the 40yrs of our franchise. I hope that this move that Seattle did will better us for the future and make us contenders in the next 3yrs how Lebron did for Cleveland. Oh and hopefully the Sonics will stay in Seattle and not move to a city like Oklahoma City.
brilliant first post. I agree with just about all of it. the part about the huddles after a loss is actually particularly encouraging to me. It really tells me that this guy has character. He has a good attitude, and that's an environment I would want this team to be in.welcome to the site, by the way.
To compare Allen to Walker is f*cking absurd. To say that Allen and Pierce are the same type player is f*cking absurd. Allen's game is all about the jump shot. Don't get me wrong he can get to the rim and throw it down even, but that's simply not his game. Pierce takes games over by getting to the basket. Pierce is one of the best players in the league when it comes to getting to the line. I mean he was ranked 20 something this season while playing a career low 47 games. Pierce and Allen have very distinct games that will mesh great together. Hughes and Allen similar, f*cking absurd. Is it just me or have a lot of NBA fans never heard of Ray f*cking Allen. Seven-time all-star. Did I mention he is coming off a career best scoring year?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jun 29 2007, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Reggie Miller lasted because of his legendary shooting ability. Ray Allen's best asset is his jump shot, and is one of the best pure shooters of the past decade. He's not going to fall off a cliff like Antione Walker or Gary Payton. As for the surgery, it was to remove BONE SPURS! Al Jefferson had the exact same thing done and he's fine. You'd think these media guys could do the simplest research before forming opinions on these things.</div>so uhh waht about the rest of the nba great jump shooting 2-guards? each and everyone of them, their numbers diminish. I someone think Miller isn't the only one with legendary shooting ability.It's kinda like great rebounding PF's and Center's.. their rebounding numbers start to dip at around 32 as well.Allen is a very good player, but he's at the twilight of his career.we gave up the #5 pick in a super-deep and talented draft, plus a solid combo back up guard for that. Someone who's only going to have their skills diminish. Not overnight but graduallyI wanted a trade, but this is about as bad as it gets. And NO ONE is concerned that Allen only played 55 games last year?he also only played 56 games 4 years ago.... (he did play 78 gms the 2 years in between(I've also said next year will probably be good. After that, allen will be an avg starting guard who isn't going to be that good on defence but can still hit the 3.Again, look at what we gave up.Everyone is happy with that prospect?As for Allen and Pierce playing together, I don't see it being an issue. I think both want to win, will recognize that both guys can shoot and score, as well as Al down low and while their shot attempts will dip, if they're winning it won't be an issue.Walker wasn't the smartest player around, Allen is much more court savy IMO he'll take shots in the flow of the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 30 2007, 08:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>so uhh waht about the rest of the nba great jump shooting 2-guards? each and everyone of them, their numbers diminish. I someone think Miller isn't the only one with legendary shooting ability.It's kinda like great rebounding PF's and Center's.. their rebounding numbers start to dip at around 32 as well.Allen is a very good player, but he's at the twilight of his career.we gave up the #5 pick in a super-deep and talented draft, plus a solid combo back up guard for that. Someone who's only going to have their skills diminish. Not overnight but graduallyI wanted a trade, but this is about as bad as it gets. And NO ONE is concerned that Allen only played 55 games last year?he also only played 56 games 4 years ago.... (he did play 78 gms the 2 years in between(I've also said next year will probably be good. After that, allen will be an avg starting guard who isn't going to be that good on defence but can still hit the 3.Again, look at what we gave up.Everyone is happy with that prospect?As for Allen and Pierce playing together, I don't see it being an issue. I think both want to win, will recognize that both guys can shoot and score, as well as Al down low and while their shot attempts will dip, if they're winning it won't be an issue.Walker wasn't the smartest player around, Allen is much more court savy IMO he'll take shots in the flow of the game.</div>Please name me the perennial all-star level shooting guards whose game was based around their jump shot that fell of a cliff and became average once they turned 33. Allen has 3 great years left imo. I'm not concerned Allen only played 55 games last year because he had bone spurs removed. That cleaned up his ankles and now he's fine. Dwayne Wade missed a lot of time last year, as did Paul Pierce. Maybe they're both in the twilight of their careers too. Celticfan, just stop whining. You believe Allen will have one good year and then stink it up. We get it. We don't agree with you, so just leave it at that.You still haven't addressed the possibility of Pierce demanding a trade and us getting stuck with half of what he's worth. So apparently a year from now you'd rather have Yi and a poo poo platter for Pierce than Allen and #34. That sounds like a great plan.
fine, how about a sign and trade for rashard lewis and keep the #5?Sonics needed to ditch ray allen to afford signing Rashard, otherwise they'd lose him for sure (they still might)it was commonly known he was most likely going.. we couldn't wait for that?sure it may have cost us Theo instead and maybe delonte or Gerald, but I coulda lived with that since Rashard is turning 28 this summer.how's that for a better deal?how about 26 yr old Jason Richardson? he got traded for less than Allen, that wouldn't have been a good grab? but ahh way to grasp at straws an applaude the's desperate attempt to appease Pierce.as for the stat about SG's, I'll just assume Bill Simmons looked it up correctly since he said he did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 30 2007, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>fine, how about a sign and trade for rashard lewis and keep the #5?Sonics needed to ditch ray allen to afford signing Rashard, otherwise they'd lose him for sure (they still might)it was commonly known he was most likely going.. we couldn't wait for that?sure it may have cost us Theo instead and maybe delonte or Gerald, but I coulda lived with that since Rashard is turning 28 this summer.how's that for a better deal?how about 26 yr old Jason Richardson? he got traded for less than Allen, that wouldn't have been a good grab? but ahh way to grasp at straws an applaude the's desperate attempt to appease Pierce.as for the stat about SG's, I'll just assume Bill Simmons looked it up correctly since he said he did.</div>The Sonics aren't re-signing Lewis. Having him, Durant, and Jeff Green makes no sense. You're also assuming Rashard would've wanted to come play for the Celtics in the first place and doesn't have a preferred destination elsewhere. He controls his destiny. Not the Sonics or anyone else. Jason Richardson actually DOES have knee problems, is an inferior player to Allen, is overpaid for what he does, and plays the EXACT same game as Pierce. In short he's a more talented but often injured version of Ricky Davis. Okay, well what other SG's have had a game based on fantastic shooting? Not many. The majority are based on athleticism, so of course they get worse at a high rate after peaking. Allen is very similar to Reggie Miller.
Just want to let you guys know that the Sonics are trying to do everything they can to resign Lewis, and yes the trade with Ray Allen deal does help out with the salary cap for Lewis. Im not sure if Lewis had much interest in Boston, but I do know that his main interest was to play in Houston and Detriot. Lewis is also looking at Sacramento's offer.IMO and from an outside prospective the Ray Allen trade was a desperate atempt by Ainge to please Pierce. If Boston didnt get a veteren player, Pierce would be gone. I do see the tragedy if Allen doesn't workout. Boston would be saying "Why didnt we just keep the 5th overall pick?" The truth if you kept the 5th pick, Pierce is gone button line. 5th pick or Pierce? I say keep the 5th pick, trade Pierce draft Jeff Green and start from there. Botson should have rebuilt the team around Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Delonte West. As much as we all fall in love with our players and the great memories they bring for our team, if something isnt working you have to change it. Many of the fans here in Seatte are all rooting for Boston to do well next year, and hopefully see our boy Ray Allen win a championship. Its obvious that Boston isnt looking for a long-term relationship wih Ray. They know his age they're not dumb. It's a short term deal for Boston, and if doesn't make Boston contenders they will restructure. What does Boston have to lose another 25-58 season? Boston already spent 3yrs trying to get young players to develop, it didnt work. The way I see it Ainge is trying this veteren approach. Boston will give it 2-3 years if it doesn't work, they will change something. Boston was looking for a player to impact the team right away, though Jeff Green has high promises for the future he is not going to give what Allen will give in the next few years.Be supportive of your team. Again for all you people that dont know about Ray Allen, check yourself! He's probably one of the most underrated player in the NBA. Dont take my word for it, go check his stats.
thanks for that.I know Ray Allen, I watched him play at UConn with Donny and Donyell Marshall back in the mid 90'she's a one of the better slept on 2 guards in the league over the last decade.he's also 32 coming of a 55 game year (another sub 60 game year 4 seasons ago too) and is not worth the #5 pick in this draft, let alone throwing in Delonte West too.it was a bad trade for what we gave up IMO.We should have made a trade with the #5, but this is a pathetic move IMO.
