Ray Allen traded to the Celtics

Discussion in 'Boston Celtics' started by playaofthegame, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. CelticBalla32

    CelticBalla32 Basketball is back in Boston

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    RainCity, I disagree with you when you say that it was a desperate attempt for Ainge to save his job. The media is saying that as well, and I think that is incorrect. I look at it this way: Ray Allen is a great player and he was the best player we could get for a reasonable price. We didn't need another young player and some people are overlooking the fact that we got Seattle to take Wally's worthless self and his contract. Delonte is a role player. In return, we got a perennial All-Star and a probable solid role player in Big Baby.

    I think it was a good move. We got an All-Star without dealing Theo's expiring contract, Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, or Rajon Rondo. In a deal for any other star, we'd have to give up at least one of those 4 pieces, likely 2. Not to mention, Ray's contract doesn't have any opt-outs or anything like that, and Ray is also excited about coming here. Marion and KG didn't want to come here and we'd have to give up too much for either of them, we'd have to overpay for JO and he is injury prone, and Gasol isn't going anywhere. Don't even bring up Kobe as a trade possibility.

    Also, CelticFan, Ray Allen had a minor surgery to get bone spurs removed... big deal. Al Jefferson had the same exact procedure last year, and he had a breakout year and his most healthy season. Ray Allen has had one fluke injury. He always keeps himself in great shape and he's very durable. This is just like Paul Pierce having one fluke year plagued by injury, except much more minor. Had Seattle been relevant, Ray Allen would have finished the season, just like Pierce. Ray Allen has missed 77 games in his career out of a possible 867, which means he has played in 91% of his possible games. Not to mention, 1/3 of those missed games came last year due to this one minor injury.
     
  2. RainCity

    RainCity BBW Member

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    I love reading your post CelticBalla! I like how you do your homework and back up what you say with stats. In the SeattleTimes paper from yesterday, they had an article on Ray commenting about the trade and a few other things, to sum everything up he said there was no hard feelings about the trade, he wasnt suprise about it at all. Weeks before the trade his agent had mention to him that there has been talk about his name coming up along with KG, Kobe and other players about trades. So it wasnt a total shocker to him when a trade came up the last minute. He said it was more of a suprise to him when he was traded to Seattle from Milwaukee.He also commented about himself turning 32. He said he doesn't feel like he's getting oldl. Allen mentions as long as you keep your body in shape and take care of it 32 is not old. "I dont drink or do drugs" He knows that people doubt him and his ability to play coming off surgery and says he has nothing to prove to anyone. "Im not going to come off and play like Im Hercules, but I am going to play like Superman." Ray said wants to continue to play in the league til his late 30's to 40 kind of like how MJ and Miller did. I dont think the Ray Allen trade is as bad as how people in Seattle and Boston make it to be.
     
  3. CelticBalla32

    CelticBalla32 Basketball is back in Boston

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RainCity @ Jul 1 2007, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love reading your post CelticBalla! I like how you do your homework and back up what you say with stats.

    In the SeattleTimes paper from yesterday, they had an article on Ray commenting about the trade and a few other things, to sum everything up he said there was no hard feelings about the trade, he wasnt suprise about it at all. Weeks before the trade his agent had mention to him that there has been talk about his name coming up along with KG, Kobe and other players about trades. So it wasnt a total shocker to him when a trade came up the last minute. He said it was more of a suprise to him when he was traded to Seattle from Milwaukee.

    He also commented about himself turning 32. He said he doesn't feel like he's getting oldl. Allen mentions as long as you keep your body in shape and take care of it 32 is not old. "I dont drink or do drugs" He knows that people doubt him and his ability to play coming off surgery and says he has nothing to prove to anyone. "Im not going to come off and play like Im Hercules, but I am going to play like Superman." Ray said wants to continue to play in the league til his late 30's to 40 kind of like how MJ and Miller did.

    I dont think the Ray Allen trade is as bad as how people in Seattle and Boston make it to be.</div>
    Exactly. I think it was actually a pretty even deal, and it helps move each team to the different directions that they are trying to go in (we're trying to add veterans, give Pierce help, and win some games now, while Seattle is rebuilding around Durant). The only thing I never understood about the trade, from Seattle's point of view, is why they took Jeff Green with the #5 pick. Now, I am a Georgetown fan and I love Jeff Green. I think he was held back in Georgetown's Princeton offense and I think he will be able to flourish in the NBA, but the pick didn't make sense after they picked up Durant and Szczerbiak. In my opinion, they should have taken either Brandan Wright (young big, All-Star potential, gives Seattle a low-post scoring presence for the future) or Corey Brewer (can step in and fill the SG hole you now have with Ray Allen gone, helps Seattle defensively). I think Jeff Green can and will play some PF, but he's really a 3 and I don't understand the pick.
     
  4. Living_Legend33

    Living_Legend33 BBW Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jul 1 2007, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Exactly. I think it was actually a pretty even deal, and it helps move each team to the different directions that they are trying to go in (we're trying to add veterans, give Pierce help, and win some games now, while Seattle is rebuilding around Durant). The only thing I never understood about the trade, from Seattle's point of view, is why they took Jeff Green with the #5 pick. Now, I am a Georgetown fan and I love Jeff Green. I think he was held back in Georgetown's Princeton offense and I think he will be able to flourish in the NBA, but the pick didn't make sense after they picked up Durant and Szczerbiak. In my opinion, they should have taken either Brandan Wright (young big, All-Star potential, gives Seattle a low-post scoring presence for the future) or Corey Brewer (can step in and fill the SG hole you now have with Ray Allen gone, helps Seattle defensively). I think Jeff Green can and will play some PF, but he's really a 3 and I don't understand the pick.</div>But why would he play PF when they have Wilcox and Collison? They're not bad players. Seems to me maybe Durant will be playing the 2, as crazy as it sounds.
     
  5. CelticBalla32

    CelticBalla32 Basketball is back in Boston

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jul 1 2007, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But why would he play PF when they have Wilcox and Collison? They're not bad players. Seems to me maybe Durant will be playing the 2, as crazy as it sounds.</div>
    They already said that Jeff Green will come off the bench and back up Durant. I think Delonte and Wally will be eating up the minutes at the 2, for now.
     
  6. Living_Legend33

    Living_Legend33 BBW Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jul 1 2007, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They already said that Jeff Green will come off the bench and back up Durant. I think Delonte and Wally will be eating up the minutes at the 2, for now.</div>So they use the #5 on a rebuilding team to take one of the most NBA ready players in the draft to backup their new franchise player? Then they have Delonte, who is undersized, and Wally, who is slow and can't guard a soul, play the 2? This plan doesn't exactly make sense to me.
     
  7. RainCity

    RainCity BBW Member

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    Theres alot of talk in Seattle to why the Sonics didnt pick up Brewer, but after looking at Green's numbers he seems a better pick. Our new GM Sam Presti said that he is trying to build a team thats unorthodox, he's trying to build a team thats suppose to be hard to match up with. Durant is suppose to play the 2, Lewis the 3 (unless traded), and I guess Jeff Green is suppose to breathe them out. I dont think Sonics are done trading and dealing yet. We have an overload of F's :doh: Not alot of Seattle fans and including myself know much about Delonte West, but from what I read in the Boston forums he's a gem. Im excited to see what he can do in Seattle. IMO I dont think they are going to do much with Wally Szerbiak since Chris Wilcox, and Nick Collison been doing good.They will probably try to trade him. I think that the Sonics took Szerbiak to help out with Boston's salary since they were getting Allen's contract.With everything said and done I cant wait for the season to start. Im excited for Seattle and for Ray Allen being in Boston. I hope that Boston will become playoff contenders next season.
     
  8. playaofthegame

    playaofthegame AYO ADRIEN!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RainCity @ Jul 2 2007, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Theres alot of talk in Seattle to why the Sonics didnt pick up Brewer, but after looking at Green's numbers he seems a better pick. Our new GM Sam Presti said that he is trying to build a team thats unorthodox, he's trying to build a team thats suppose to be hard to match up with. Durant is suppose to play the 2, Lewis the 3 (unless traded), and I guess Jeff Green is suppose to breathe them out. I dont think Sonics are done trading and dealing yet. We have an overload of F's :doh: Not alot of Seattle fans and including myself know much about Delonte West, but from what I read in the Boston forums he's a gem. Im excited to see what he can do in Seattle. IMO I dont think they are going to do much with Wally Szerbiak since Chris Wilcox, and Nick Collison been doing good.They will probably try to trade him. I think that the Sonics took Szerbiak to help out with Boston's salary since they were getting Allen's contract.With everything said and done I cant wait for the season to start. Im excited for Seattle and for Ray Allen being in Boston. I hope that Boston will become playoff contenders next season.</div>Delonte is a hell of a player and a guy. You're gonna love his heart on the court and his charisma off the court. Just be aware that he has a problem, he only uses 1 hand on layups. And if your coach has any idea what he's doing he'll get Delonte to play the SG position.Here's some Delonte clips:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6nmHflqcAohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WbZ8IXSb_whttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZGdOMQdHqA - Highlights of Delonte's playhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT4uBLC0NLE - More highlightshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dthKAiQDt4 - Delonte blocking Eddy CurryAfter watching all of those, and once you get to know Delonte you're gonna love him from the get go.
     
  9. CelticBalla32

    CelticBalla32 Basketball is back in Boston

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  10. RashadzMcCantz

    RashadzMcCantz BBW Elite Member

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    I have no idea what Seattle was thinking taking Green to backup Durant over taking Brewer to start at the 2 and play next to Durant. The last player the Sonics needed in this draft after taking Durant was Green and they could have taken Brewer and watched him develop alongside Durant instead of taking Green only to watch him back up Durant and eventually be dealt.As far as Ray Allen in Boston goes...I absolutley love this trade for the Celtics. I know he underwent ankle surgery that forced him to sit out the rest of last season but it shouldn't effect his game at all next season. Why I love the trade? Boston gets rid of Szczerbiak's brutal contract and they add an all-star who will help lead the Celtics into the playoffs next season. Let's be honest, there wasn't a player at #5 that could come in, and make an instant impact next season. In Allen, you have a 25 ppg player who can help mentor Allen, Rondo, Green, and Pruitt and at the same time, can come in and lead this team to the playoffs. Don't be worried about Allen and Pierce not complimenting each other because they compliment each other very well. Pierce's game relies on slashing and taking the ball to the hole which will compliment Allen well because Pierce will draw the defense in with his ability to penetrate which will leave Allen with many 3 point opportunities next season. Did I mention they have a beast down low in Big Al who will also see many double teams and will be able to kick it out to Pierce or Allen for the open look? Allen is the perfect fit and even though his scoring will drop because he won't get as many shot attempts with Pierce playing alongside him, he should still be good for 22 ppg which should finally help The Truth lead the Celtics into the playoffs.
     
  11. Celtic Fan

    Celtic Fan Well-Known Member

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    Here?s 2 opposing takes on the Ray Allen Deal:Positive;NEW YORK -- Allow me to add to the (albeit premature) applause in which the Boston Celtics are bathing the day after Danny Ainge's finest hour. Not only did the Celtics partner Paul Pierce with the veteran All-Star he's been needing for four years, but they also acquired that player (Ray Allen) while unloading Wally Szczerbiak and keeping Rajon Rondo, who will go into next season with newfound respect after Seattle's threatened veto while trying to include him in the trade.The Celtics aren't going to win a championship with this team, but today they can start building toward that eventual goal. At long last their roster makes sense with three players who must be guarded -- Allen on the perimeter, Al Jefferson in the post and Pierce everywhere he goes. Doc Rivers is glad he extended his contract.I didn't understand where Ainge was taking the team this past year when he put forth the league's youngest rotation -- and then maintained with aggravating stubbornness that the Celtics could have been in the playoffs if not for their injuries. A team as immature as the Celtics were last season cannot win. The good thing is that Ainge didn't "stay the course'' and take another 20-year-old project, nor did he waste a trade on another coming of Sebastian Telfair.With no small input from owner Wyc Grousbeck and Rivers, who I'm sure demanded background checks to certify that Allen wasn't an incarnation of broken-down Ainge acquisitions like Raef LaFrentz or Szczerbiak (which he isn't -- Allen had bone spurs last year, and the way the game is played on the perimeter, he'll be making threes till he's 38), Ainge's blockbuster instantly validated the pain and suffering of the last year with a mature adult whose presence slots youngsters Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green and Tony Allen into their rightful roles coming off the bench.Can the Celtics make the playoffs next season? They'll obviously contend, but success isn't guaranteed. Do the math: Just to reach .500 they must hike up an enormous 17-game improvement next season. Rondo is entering his second year as their quarterback, and only Pierce and Allen have peaked. But for the first time since Ainge's impulsive trade of Antoine Walker four years ago, they can now go forward from a position of strength, with high second-rounders Gabe Pruitt and Glen (Big Baby) Davis working their way into backup roles at the point and frontcourt, respectively, by the end of the year, and with Ainge and top assistant Leo Papile continuing to supplement the roster in future years with more finds in the draft, as is their strength.The ghost of Vin Baker has been avenged.Source http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...otes/index.htmlaaaand negative ;A Debacle Royal By Ainge?Special to RealGM from Christopher Lehane, a Democratic political strategist and lifelong Boston Celtics fan Yesterday, I wrote a piece to opine on what I was hoping for from the C's out of the draft. Today is my time to whine. Moving the fifth pick, Wally and Delonte ONLY makes sense if it is indeed part of a well thought-out larger plan - and I don't mean a hope and a prayer but a real, concrete plan with specific back-ups and alternatives in place. If the Allen trade allows the team to move Big Al, Theo and some additional consideration to make it work financially for KG (who may have nixed Boston initially solely because of Wally, though I am guessing his antipathy to Boston was more than just the fact he holds Wally in minimal high regard) - then it makes sense. I can certainly understand a team that includes a KG-Pierce-Allen trifecta (though based on what we know right now, this lineup seems to fall into the hope and a prayer category). Alternatively, if this trade allows the Celtics to keep Big Al but and do a sign-and-trade involving Green, Theo, etc., for AK47 (or a combination that works financially) then I can see a team that will at least be watch-able in the East. However, if this move is what it feels, smells and tastes like - a panic move - then it is a debacle royal. Ray Allen is a class act; I liked him in Spike's hoops film; he has been a great shooter - but he does not make the Celtics any better and I believe represents a step backward. The Celts trading for Allen is akin to the Knicks re-signing Allan Houston - he does not address the team's needs and, at best, is a lateral move and more likely a step backward. Watching the Celts last year on the NBA League Pass, it was clear that the team just does not have a great chemistry (with the possible exception of when Pierce was out and the youth corps had to play, of course, that chemistry led to a lot of losses despite the evident hustle). I just do not see how bringing on a 32-year-old shooting guard whose game is somewhat duplicative of Pierce's game; who is a defensive liability; and who is coming off of double ankle surgery is going to make Boston a better team. For Allen to be effective, he needs shots. For Pierce to be effective, he needs shots. For Big Al to be effective, he needs shots. And, off course, the need for a lot of shots to around is compounded by the fact that the point guard by definition now is Rondo - who can't shoot - which means that defenses can play five on four when Boston is in half-court offense. It was painful watching the Celtics last year - watching this line-up will be like sticking a fork in one's eye 82 times. What the Celtics are in desperate need of is a either an All-Star caliber glue guy - in the mold of a Pippen or a Josh Howard (defined as someone who make the team a team by doing all of the intangibles at a very high level) - or a transformative player (defined as someone who really makes people around them better - something none of the current players on the Celtics - roster as it is presently constructed are able to do). For these reasons, I would much, much, much rather have taken a flyer on Yi (who could end up being the Bosh of this draft) or on Brewer - as safe a pick as you had in the draft after the top two - and then use the team's tradable assets (youth and/or expiring contracts) to go after some additional players to build around. All you need to know about this trade is that the 30-year-old GM of the Seatte/Oklahoma Supersonics/Oilers praised the Celtics and complimented them for the trade, which is the major league sports equivalent of the Mafia kiss. The C's either have a bigger plan in place that should start to become clear on Sunday, when the free-agency period starts, or by the All-Star break, when this team is battling Philly for last in the Atlantic, Boston fans will be looking to throw someone to the fishes in Boston Harbor.Source;http://realgm.com/src_goaltending/125/2007...royal_by_ainge/While I don?t think Ainge?s moves were as visionary as Ian Thomas thinks they are, I do think the Celts can make the playoffs next year and have a much better Year. Ray Allen will open things up for Paul to Drive and Al to work. He does ignore the cost of acquiring Ray and that is a short sight IMO.Chris Lehane however, is waaaaaay too negative in his assessment of how Paul, Al and Ray will not be able to co-exist. I think the team will run smoothly from that standpoint, as both Ray and Paul want it to work and are more interested in winning than their stats.The parts about making another big trade and the kiss of death approval from the Sonics GM are good points though.
     
  12. CelticBalla32

    CelticBalla32 Basketball is back in Boston

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    First of all, we really don't need another thread about this, so I'm merging it with the big Ray Allen trade topic. We know the the naysayers think and we know what the optimists think. But everybody that's writing about this is almost assuming that this was the only move Ainge was going to make this season. We obviously aren't a finished product, we have holes, and Ainge knows that. He has said plenty of times that he will do more.
     

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