Record-High 42% of Americans Identify as Independents

You used to say you were an Independent till I outed you.

 

And this is a fundamental disagreement between you and I. I understand your point of view, as I'm sure you understand mine. We just both think the other is wrong.


But for the most part I've become jaded about the entire subject and rarely discuss it because regardless of which one of us is right, the system that is currently in place is wrong, and it ain't going away any time soon. I do feel disenfranchised, that my vote has no meaning and the promises of virtually every politician means nothing once elected. That there are people who matter and then ones that don't to our politicians, and that I fall in the group that doesn't matter. And what is even worse, our media doesn't seem to take their responsibility seriously. They never keep on important stories and hold peoples feet to the fire. The press is too concerned with making money, and the politicians are too concerned with gaining power and potentially money too.

 

Darn tootin'. We don't need no stinkin' experts learning stuff about shit and telling us what's what. The Constitution knows best!

 

Denny, I look at social security and see it as a great program that benefits our society. I guess that you see it as a boondoggle. I see public education as a great thing that government should provide. Although I would certainly like more rigorous standards and more money going into this. Same with healthcare. I am not so much of a fan of what we have now, I would like a truly universal coverage. These are difficult things to get right, but they can be done and as a society we should be looking year after year at how to improve what we have and work towards actually achieving a well functioning system, not throwing the baby out with the bath water and saying fuck it. We are more than a collection of individuals and the best way in my opinion to forge a great society is to find that fine line between the pooling of resources to form the scaffolding of a quality society and still permitting individuals to retain their own identity and decision making. This line is different for you and me.

 

Why would I ask an expert? They're the ones who fucked everything up in the first place.

 

Denny is correct about SS (and I collect it). However it is even worse than that when you consider it has been expanded over the years to cover and mean more things, like life insurance for kids. The dad dies and his kid get a stipend until 18, stuff like that should be a separate program with it's own funding if it is needed.

Then stuff like this was done with SS. During my military year, they hardly paid us. We did get
credit for the maximum SS payment you could make for a year though. So six years served, you are credited for max amounts paid into the system for those years served.

But now years later people begin to question whether you deserve your SS checks. I did sort of cringe reading Denny's assertion that SS is just a wealth transfer from poor youth to rich old people. In this case, it is kind of a deferred payment, deferred to today's youth by the old people of years gone by. It should not have been done that way, it was just another example of government screwing up a program.

 

I am 39, totally capable of holding and working a full time job or even more. My father at 70 is wearing down and it's quite nice that he is looked after, even if it is myself and other younger people footing the bill. We should respect and help our elders, perhaps a little bit more than just welfare, they are too old to learn the lesson and go back to work this time with more conviction, so instead of turning them out we protect them and give them some respect and comfort. And they have worked throughout their lives, paying into SS so they get some of that security. It's been a wonderful program. My parents have been fairly successful, saved some money, have a wonderful pension plan (PERS tier 1 which in Oregon is almost criminal how awesome it is) and SS. Between all that, they have enough to live very comfortably, not rich, but go on several trips a year and enjoy their golden years. If they didn't have any one of those components, it would detract from their lives. But for those who are a step or two below my parents, SS actually becomes a savior. I know for my grandmother it was a good portion what she spent after she lived past what was expected.

Screw universal insurance, i want universal health care. As an example my best friends youngest son got some bizarre health issue that put his life at risk. It took several months to take care of the main issue, seeing dozens of experts and even flying to see experts elsewhere. And still now, over a year later, dealing with resulting issues that require more experts and follow up surgeries. My friend is a very successful broker with a major bank and had excellent (read expensive) insurance. So far, the cost of what insurance didn't cover is over $300,000. That's a fucked up broken system. Healthcare should be free. Everyone needs it, it should be part of living in our society.

Not every system is designed right, and too many incentives are taken out of the system to ensure quality doctors. But that doesn't mean we should give up on the goal, it means building a better mouse trap. Figuring out how and where to cut money and where not to. It means that a doctors might make a bit less, but not so much less that it becomes not worth becoming a doc.

These aren't easy issues, they need competent people to navigate, but they are doable. Our society, or at least our government, is screwed up at the moment, but that shouldn't stop up from trying to fix the problems instead of just cutting out everything.

 

If you really mean that, then you need to make sure you don't get the BS that will accompany this right, like death panels like are infact in Obama Care. This idea was taken directly from the Oregon Health Plan. Perhaps you will recall some of the discussion that were the topic of the day when they have decided to let people die due to costs.

Universal HealthCare if it ever happens must be done through the Amendment process putting it in the Constitution and clearly defined what the intent of the program is including no death panels.

Right now with Obama Care you have no fucking idea what you have and nobody else does either. Obama is running this program as if he took his training from Benito Mussolini. He does indeed change the law as he sees fit, deferring this, and ignoring that, just as if he were indeed a Fascist dictator. Furthermore it needs to be a completely defined law that is amended, not like the damned 16th amendment that simply states that income can be taxed without the enumeration!!! Holy Crap! What a farce that is! The original income tax was to be 1 to 7 percent but that was not put in the amendment, nor was the meaning of income defined. That amendment just hog tied the American people to make them stand while the politicians search and feel to see what they can fleece from the hapless dweebs.

Don't let your healthcare become another handle like the sixteenth amendment.

 

I don't think you understood, the $300,000 was for a 4 year old child. It's what wasn't covered, the covered portion is over a million.



And I'm not suggesting that healthcare is free, I saying it should be the burden on all in our society to make sure everyone gets quality treatment. Of course you and I will pay by way of taxation.

 

Show me where death panels are in Obamacare.


Oh, and from your tone I can't take anything you say on this subject seriously. You have obviously been whipped into a frenzy to where you are believing anything coming from the anti-Obama people without using your reasoning skills.