Fair enough, although you can find quotes by him that are all over the map on that subject. Deist or Christian, it does raise an interesting question for atheists. Jefferson at least attributed human rights to a creator. If there is no creator, what is the source of our rights? But this thread has wandered far enough off topic that we probably shouldn't go there.
Go read the "Treaty Of Tripoli" and you will discover that your god does not govern our nation nor has he ever. The minute Christians start to understand that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, the sooner you will understand that that covers equal marriage too. It's the WHOLE reason DOMA is unconstitutional.
Can we try and get this thread back on track? I am the only god that should be talked about in this thread.
First, I suggest you read my post again and you'll see that I agree this isn't a theocracy and that I favor same-sex marriage. Second, go read the decision on DOMA. It has nothing to do with separation of church and state. It has to do with the federal government not having the authority to adopt laws overruling state laws when the lone intent is to deny rights to a group of people.
I never said he was referring to the Christian God. Only that he says rights come from a higher power.
e_blazer, the problem I have is you seem to be counterposing same sex marriage with those who consider marriage a religious covenant. There are many same sex couples who consider their marriage a religious covenant and many clergy of many faiths agree. Look, I know a lot of couples who had registered civil unions or domestic partnerships and they said it was about as exciting as going to DMV for a driver's license renewal. These same couples often broke down in tears when after 5, 10, 20, 50 years they finally could get married. Not gay married. Not married lite. Married. You are correct that DOMA was decided on equal protection and not separation of church and state - pretty much what I've been saying from the start of the thread. It's an issue of equal rights for all. Whether someone else accepts me as an equal human being is a problem, no doubt, and a change in law probably won't change their minds, but whether the law does so is something that can be legally changed. And should. And that's all the teams are saying.
As I'm sure you know, there's a broad range of views on theology and social views represented by various denominations within Christianity. What I should have said is that those churches that are more fundamentalist in their views on same-sex marriage can maintain those principles in their marriage ceremonies. Same-sex couples won't have any problem finding churches with more open views in which to worship and marry. This is not an easy topic for Christians, crandc, and it's not going to change over night or uniformly.
Not just within Christianity. I agree with what you said. Any clergyperson still retains the right to not perform any marriage ceremony he/she feels is against his/her faith. Catholic priests are not required to marry divorced people, although divorce and remarriage are legal. Orthodox rabbis are not required to perform mixed marriages although they are legal. Christian Identity ministers are not required to perform interracial marriages although they are legal. Current law actually encroaches on religious freedom in that clergy of denominations that consider gay and straight relationships equal are in most states NOT allowed to officiate at same sex weddings. So in fact when marriage equality is the law nationwide it will be a victory for equal rights and for religious freedom.
The decision had nothing to do with Separation of Church and State (because we have crazy right wingers on the court who would never decide that) but we know DOMA is certainly an infringement on the 1st amendment.
