Ric Bucher Likes OKC Over Blazers In A Few Years

I do not.

 

That quote and most of this discussion that you're entering in to has nothing to do with Durant The Chucker.

 

The post I quoted was in response to this:

So apparently Durant is relevant in this discussion.

 

Right, and BNM's reply was referencing Roy's status as a top 10 player in this league. And much of this 13-page thread is about the same.

Please try and stay with me here.

Original (foolish) post: "I think [Durant] has a much larger chance of becoming a top 5-10 player"

BNM's response: Roy already is a top 10 player, essentially.

 

Nice strawman. Please show me where I said that? Please don't put try words in my mouth. Either address what I actually said, or don't bother quoting me.

It can be reasonably argued, and supported by actual stats, that Roy is already a top 10 player in the league this season. Durant isn't.

So, if the loosely defined requirement for being a "superstar" is being one of the 10 best players in the league, it can be reasonably argued and supported with facts, that Roy has already reached that level. So, how can Durant possibly be "more likely to become a superstar" than Roy?

Perhaps Durant has a higher ceiling, perhaps he doesn't. None of us know for sure. He's certainly a very talented offensive player, but Roy has a significantly better all-around game at this point. Roy has also taken his offense to another level this season - that many thought he'd never reach. Durant scores more (largely due to playing at a higher pace), but Roy has a much higher ORtg than Durant and significantly better all-around stats.

I never said, or implied, that Durant has reached his ceiling. It is impossible to say that at this point as I don't claim to know what his ceiling is. I do know that he needs to become a more complete player to become a true superstar and one of the top 10 players in the league.

It is also my opinion that he needs to start putting up big numbers on a winning team before I will personally consider him one of the top 5 - 10 players in the league. Yes, basketball is a team sport, but if you're the best player on your team and can't lead that team to more than 24 or 25 wins, how an you possibly be considered an elite player? Elite players make their teams better - significantly better. Durant has yet to do so. I'm not saying he CAN'T, just that he HASN'T.

Right now, Durant is a high volume scorer on a bad team that will win about 25 games. Such players aren't exactly rare. When various posters were listing their top 10 players, why didn't anyone mention Danny Granger? He scores slightly less than Durant (25.3 PPG vs. 25.6 PPG) but has a slightly better PER (21.3 vs. 21.0). The two players are about as close as you can get statistically. Yet, nobody mentioned Granger as a top 10 player or "superstar". All-star, yes. Superstar, no (at least not yet). He, like Durant is a volume scorer on a non-playoff team. That's not sufficient to be a superstar in my opinion, and will get both players little, or most likely, no consideration when the MVP votes are tallied.

I get that Durant is younger and COULD develop into a much better player than he currently is. I've never denied it (in spite of you implying so). But nothing's a given. I'm the kind of guy who hates to argue hypotheticals. I prefer to deal in facts. I'll take "is" over "might be" anytime. So, right now, this season, Brandon Roy is a top 10 player (statistically) in the NBA. Someday, Kevin Durant might be. Some day, he might be better than Roy, but then again he might not be. We'll just have to wait and see.

BNM

 

I don't think anyone will deny Durant is a better scorer than Roy. Carmelo is too. Granger probably also.

 

"________ has scored 30 points more times than ______, therefore he's better."

 

Yeah, there's no doubt Durant is a pretty spectacular scorer.

But in that amazing individual month, he led his team to victories over Sacremento (bad) and Portland (good...when we got blitzed at OKC and spotted them about 30 points before trying to come back).

Elite scorers, who do little else, are rarely the players you build championships around. Durant will need to improve his game in areas other than putting the ball through the hoop if he wants to actually turn his team around like Roy has led Portland to doing.

 

Ya, if DC meant the month before last they were 2-9 with Durant and 1-0 without him.

 

What would a one-faced die look like? A mobius strip?

 

I'm really curious. What about Durant's play makes it seem like he has a high ceiling? Because I've really seen nothing that has hinted that he will be a decent passer, rebounder, and/or defender. None.

 

minstrel

 

Durant's average this year Pts 25.6 Reb 6.5 Ast 2.9

6.5 reb average isn't to bad for a SF.

 

Nor is three assists for a second year player on a bad team. It won't be good if that's where his assist numbers peak, but there's no reason to believe he won't improve his ability to create for others.

 

Bear in mind OKC plays at one of the fastest paces in the league (I believe 8th last time I looked) so there are more opportunities for assists and rebounds. And points.

Portland plays at the second slowest pace in the league, which makes Roy's statistics all that more impressive IMO.

 

True enough. The point is, KD isn't *just* a gunner. He was a respectable passer/rebounder in college, and is beginning to show those skills at the NBA level. If he becomes even an average defender, he will be an all-star.

There are a number of players in the league who aren't "better" than Roy, but are still huge assets to their teams. (EG Billups, Joe Johnson)

 

I used to play some pickup hoops vs Bucher in SF... I usually matched up on him. Dude was pretty decent, but man did he have a bad temper. Though I didn't like him on the court, for the most part I've enjoyed his writing and sports talk show contributions. Like all contributers at ESPN (outside stats guy Hollinger), his job is to cover stories/teams in the league and stir the pot a bit. I'd guess he was sent to Oklahoma City to write a piece on the club, and his decided on premise (to stir the pot) was that their future rivaled Portland's. Obviously the results of the last game would beg to differ.

anyhoo... here's a particularly embarrassing blast from the past example of one his predictions that didn't come true.

STOMP