Rockets Debate Round Two: tmacgarnett vs. Thefreshprince vs. AznxBaller vs. Blurr#7

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr#7:</div><div class="quote_post">But the problem is we do have to win now. McGrady and Yao are really going to peak soon and thats pretty much the perfect time to win a championship. With what we got? Right now we have a crappy starting powerforward that wouldn't be starting material on most teams in the NBA. If we don't do anything about it now, we're pretty much wasting McGrady and Yao's time with us. In addition, we still lack depth to contend in the playoffs.

The main Issue is going to battle with a different 5 every year, as much as I wish we could upgrade our 4 if Juwon would have been healthy we may have beat Dallas.

Hey, we were pretty close to getting into the second round of the playoffs with that team. Not bad for the oldest team in the league. The window isn't limited to one season though. The current roster stands with a starting lineup of players that really aren't that old (except Howard). In addition, the bench is fairly young with Kirk Snyder, Luther Head, Vassilis Spanoulis, John Lucas III, and Chuck Hayes. Plus, if we follow my gameplan and get Jumaine Jones and Troy Murphy, we would actually be a fairly young team.

Yes, but you still need to know what you have. If he's not happy now we may be able to get him next year when we'll know were our weakness still remains.

Right, but you still need to improve the team to the point where you're at least satisfied and believe they can win in the future. If this current team plays together for a long time, I can guarantee to you they will go nowhere. Guys like Mutombo and Howard will be retiring, so its only a matter of time before you need to make a move. And that time that you spent waiting for a second tier team to develop chemistry, is time wasted you could have used to make a top tier team that sooner or later, will develop chemistry anyway.</div>

Adding tallent does not neccessarilly gurantee you becomming a top team, like I said before how could Brazil give the US(With All-stars almost at every position!)such a tough match up? Simple they been playing together for years! It's making the right moves not the biggest and more attractive, think about this, when the trade for Barkley was made we lost an All-Star pg wich we still never been able to replace and a SF that was averaging 12ppg and 6rpg and was getting better. How many rings could we have won if we kept that team intact for a few more years?[/QUOTE]

Your underrating Juwan Howard. Yes I don't like him on the team either, but thats only because of his contract. I would be very happy with Juwan starting, but we need to add depth to the team through veteran leadership. Demarr Johnson isn't really considered a veteran, but he has had 5 years in the NBA and can really be our backup SF to give Tmac some major bench time that he didn't see in the past 2 seasons.

Troy Muprhy and Jumaine Jones are unlikely aqcuisitions...so it is worthless to mention them.

Brazil almost beat US becuase Carmelo anthony went out of the game. If you watch US games, he is a major part of the team(emphasis on major).
Yes you are right that teamwork is a major need for any championship team, but getting guys like Jumaine Jones who will be second stringers at best is useless.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Troy Murphy is a minor step up compared to Juwan. He has at best the same amount of offense as Juwan and the only improvement from Juwan is his rebounding. He is a very inconsistent player who on some nights can get it going, but others can't. We need solid numbers every night from our role players because we all know that Tmac and Yao can't do it alone.</div>
Murphy last year averaged 14.0 points, 10 rebounds, on .433% FG, with .320% from three in 34 minutes. Meanwhile, Juwan had- 11.8 points, 6.7 rebounds, with .459% FG, in 31.7 minutes. However, you have to think about this. Most of the time Howard was either the second or first option on offense due to the injuries that riddled McGrady and Yao. Obviously, he had more touches, and actually attempted more shots than Murphy last season in less minutes. Therefore, its not like his lack of points is due to the difference in minutes. Murphy on the other hand didn't get consistent touches because of the guys on his team- Davis and Richardson. His attempts would fluxuate depending on how many shots the other two stars got. Thus, I can safely say Murphy is the better offensive player. And like you said, he's a better rebounder. Plus, at least he has room for improvement, compared to Juwan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A powerforward is necessary for the Rockets. The past 3 champions have had decent or amazing PFs that were either the first, second or third option.
Spurs had Duncan
Pistons had Rasheed Wallace
Heat had Udonis haslem and Antoine Walker</div>
I concur.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Troy Murphy is not what we need. We need someone that can rebound and shoot the mid range. Juwan can shoot, but isn't the rebounder we need. Why would Golden State do this anyways. They have a young PF in Ike Diogu and they just drafted Patrick O bryant so Adonal Foyle might be seeing C and PF time. Luther Head won't fit them either. Baron and Jrich dominate minutes there and Monta Ellis is the first gaurd coming off the bench for them</div>
Murphy can rebound well (he's had double digit rebounds in 3 of his 5 years). In addition, his first year he was a rookie and didn't really get enough playing time. He's actually a good shooter from midrange as well as three point range. So in fact, he does fit your criteria. Murphy CAN shoot, and he IS the rebounder we need. 66% of his shots are jumpers. Golden State does this because Murphy isn't really working out for them. Since he's been drafted, they really haven't gone anywhere, and they just need a new direction. To them, he's deadweight with his big contract. Their team needs more of a low post presence as compared to Murphy. If we trade Howard, Head, and a second round pick to them, it allows them to free up some cap space. Howard's contract ends in two years, while Murphy's ends in four. With Murphy on the team for four years, it gives them little opportunity to give Diogu playing time. Instead with Howard, Diogu would be able to start at least and give them really want they want- a low post scoring threat. Meanwhile, Head gives them a deeper guard and small forward rotation. Check this out-

PG- Baron Davis, Monta Ellis
SG- Jason Richardson, Luther Head
SF- Mike Dunleavy, Michael Pietrus, Jason Richardson
PF- Ike Diogu, Juwan Howard
C- Adonal Foyle

Head's a step up from Pietrus, who really doesn't have a good grip of fundamentals and gets by with athleticism. With Head, they actually have a good shooter. In fact, he would be arguably the third best shooter on the team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for getting Jumaine Jones, Is he really a step up from Luther Head. The Lakers didn't want him and if he was the same time of player as Luther than why would Charlotte not want to resign him? Espeically after he scored 10 ppg for them last season.</div>
Yes, he is. He's not a tweener and he'll be able to give consistent play. Even if he's not making shots, at least you know out there he isn't giving up inches to his man. That in turn, allows him to play defense better as opposed to Head if he was giving up 3-4 inches to the opposing guy. He's unrestricted, so Charlotte can't match the offer and then take him. Instead, the choice is up to him, and who would he want to go to? Charlotte or Houston?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Your moves are unrealistic because there is no chance of them happening.</div>


Blurr didn't quote me when he responded, so TmacGarnett, you might have to sort out some things I typed in there...

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Brazil almost beat US becuase Carmelo anthony went out of the game. If you watch US games, he is a major part of the team(emphasis on major).
Yes you are right that teamwork is a major need for any championship team, but getting guys like Jumaine Jones who will be second stringers at best is useless.</div>
Right, Jumaine Jones would be a second stringer, is there a problem with that? We have freakin Shane Battier and Tracy McGrady as the shooting guard and small forward, of course he's going to be a second string bench player! What did you expect? We need guys that can help round out the bench and provide depth, at this point the guard forward positions don't really need starters right now.

<strike>TRIPLE POST!</strike>

[red]Please use the 'edit' feature. ~Locke[/red]

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who are you talking about? Needless to say I'm a bit confused here. Anyway, if we keep Howard here, its obvious the powerforward spot is still going to be a weakness. I don't know how it wouldn't be a weakness if we don't change anything. Weakness now, so therefore, if its the same guys, weakness later too.</div>

The team. How do you know what type of chemistry you have to begin with? And what other assets you may have without giving the rotation a try. Making a move to get better at the 4 is gonna cost us a young player with up side. Remember we played good ball with Howard in the lineup. I think we've made a good move with Battier and going in with this roster WILL give us a chance to compete. Giving us a chance to pick someone up in 07 when the free agent class is stacked with quality PF's and we'll have more $ to spend.

Look at this....
Aleksander Pavlovic team '07 Earl Boykins player '07 Mickael Pietrus team '07
Eduardo Najera player '07 Mike Bibby player '07
Anderson Varejao '07 Jake Tsakalidis '07 Mike Sweetney team '07
Andres Nocioni '07 Jalen Rose '07 Moochie Norris '07
Antonio McDyess player '07 Jamaal Magloire '07 Morris Peterson '07
Antwan Jamison player '07 Jarvis Hayes team '07 Ndudi Ebi team '07
Boris Diaw team '07 Jerome Williams team '07 Nick Collison team '07
Brian Cook team '07 Jerry Stackhouse '07 P J Brown '07
Calvin Booth '07 Joe Smith '07 Pat Garrity player '07
Carmelo Anthony team '07 Jonathan Bender '07 Peter John Ramos '07
Josh Howard team '07 Predrag Drobnjak team '07
Chauncey Billups player '07 Kendrick Perkins team '07 Primoz Brezec '07
Chris Bosh team '07 Kirk Hinrich team '07 Raef LaFrentz player '07
Chris Kaman team '07 Leandro Barbosa team '07 Rashard Lewis player '07
Chris Mihm '07 LeBron James team '07 Reece Gaines team '07
Corliss Williamson '07 Lionel Chalmers team '07 Rodney White '07
Dahntay Jones team '07 Luke Ridnour team '07 Royal Ivey '07
Darko Milicic team '07 Maciej Lampe team '07 T J Ford team '07
David West team '07 Malik Rose player '07 Travis Outlaw team '07
Derek Anderson '07 Marc Jackson '07 Vince Carter '07
Desmond Mason '07 Marcus Banks team '07 Zarko Cabarkapa team '07
Dirk Nowitzki player '07 Maurice Taylor '07 Zoran Planinic team '07
Donta Smith team '07 Maurice Williams '07
Dwyane Wade team '07 Michael Doleac player '07]

Some of these players have already been given extended contracts but still the 07 FA class has alot to offer.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Brazil almost beat US becuase Carmelo anthony went out of the game. If you watch US games, he is a major part of the team(emphasis on major).
Yes you are right that teamwork is a major need for any championship team, but getting guys like Jumaine Jones who will be second stringers at best is useless.</div>

You can't be serious! D-Wade,Lebron, Bosh and all it takes for Brazil to almost beat us is Mello to go down!?!? Nope if you watched the game Brazil played good help defense and put pressure on the ball. They also ran screens to free up shooters, things a team with time together do and make the game simple. What about the last USA team? what was their excuse? Why do you think players like Bowen, Battier and Hinrich are on the roster? They are good fits that when given time to play with the "Stars" on the team WILL make the USA the best TEAM on the court.The Rockets have made the most out of this off-season let's not give up prospects and one day look back like we do now at Horry and Cassell.

<font color=""Red"">Triple post, yeah we can't do that... - AznxBaller</font>

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
The team. How do you know what type of chemistry you have to begin with? And what other assets you may have without giving the rotation a try. Making a move to get better at the 4 is gonna cost us a young player with up side. Remember we played good ball with Howard in the lineup. I think we've made a good move with Battier and going in with this roster WILL give us a chance to compete. Giving us a chance to pick someone up in 07 when the free agent class is stacked with quality PF's and we'll have more $ to spend.</div>
Well, we already know the powerforward position is weak. We KNOW that. As for the chemistry, we pretty much have little to none. Battier's new, Snyder's new, and Spanoulis is new. In addition, guys like Alston, McGrady, and Yao were frequently out last season so its not like there's any chemistry last season rolling into this season. I seriously doubt Head has much upside. Although I do think he'll improve, I don't think he has the tools or height to really succeed and become much more than a role player in this league. For one, he's too short to play his natural position of shooting guard. In addition, he doesn't have the dribbling abilities to make up for it like Allen Iverson, Mike James (WHO?), Gilbert Arenas, etc do. We played good ball with Howard in the lineup, sure, but that was two seasons ago. He's really not the same player. In my opinion, his game's deteriorating. In addition, in 07, we really don't have much cap space at all to spend money on free agents. In fact, I think we'll still be over the salary cap with contracts like Yao's and McGrady's, so we'll pretty much have just the same amount of money to spend like this season- the MLE and LLE.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Some of these players have already been given extended contracts but still the 07 FA class has alot to offer.</div>
First of all, why waste time hoping that one of those players will sign with us? Its not even a definite that the Rockets will be able to nab them. So why not go with my plan and just get Murphy right now off the bat? We're still probably going to have to spend just as much money, and plus in my opinion he's better than some of those powerforwards listed there. In fact, here are the powerforwards as free agents in 07 (note, some of them aren't even unrestricted)-

Najera, Varejao, Tsakalidis, Sweetney, McDyess, Magloire (PF/C), Jamison, Diaw, Collison, Cook, Brown, Booth, Smith, Perkins, Bosh, Williamson, Lampe, West, Jackson, Cabarkapa, Nowitzki, and Taylor.

Out of all those guys, I can only see us being able to get Najera, Varejao, McDyess, Cook, Brown, Smith, Perkins, Jackson, Cabarkapa, and Taylor. McDyess, Brown, and Jackson are all pretty old, so it doesn't fit your criteria of not having a one year window winning period. Thus, from there its pretty slim pickings. And in my opinion, Murphy is better than pretty much all those guys.

 

I agree that Murphy would be a great addition, but I'm sure if he was available there would be WAY better offers from other teams. Juwan's contract is ridiculous and like you said maybe Head has reached his peak. I really don't think theres much a GM could do this offseason, lets get what we have and go to battle with it, if in midseason a trade is possible then maybe. as of now you do have some chemistry with 3 of your 4 starters and when Alston did play with Yao and McGrady it looked good, you may even say that our weakest position was the 2 with Wesley, wich we now have upgraded with Battier. A starting line up of T-Mac,Yao,Battier,Alston and Howard can be a contender and with some time (two years tops) can develp cohesivness on the court. Adding Murphy would be great but we would lose Head,a draft pick and still have a learning curve.

 

AxnBaller, your arguement is falwed in the sense that you say Golden State would agree to Trade Luther Head + Juwan Howard for Troy Murphy. They might and your support for that claim was that Troy Murphy has been a dead weight on the team because the team didn't go anywhere and becuase of his huge contract.

We as Rockets fans don't like Juwan howard because he is inconsistent at times and has a big contract. If Troy Murphy is a dead weight on a team where he is the primary option for the big men on the team then what makes you think he will be that peice we've been longing for. If he can't play well in a system with a former Allstar point gaurd then what makes you think he will be significant as a Rocket. He also has a big contract so Were not solving the Contract situation.

Troy Murphy also is not the best player for this team anyways. Sure he can rebound but how will his play be affected alongside Yao. Yao lives in the paint and the block. With another banger in the paint alongside Yao, Yao will have a hard time shooting with double teams coming to him faster. We need a PF that can spread the floor.


Blurr...With your suggestion to wait until next season to spend some of that money is absurd. Why did we bring in Shane Battier? TO WIN NOW!!!
Waiting one more season is almost as ridiculous as Juwan and Murphy's contract. We need veteran leadership now for our back court.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">AxnBaller, your arguement is falwed in the sense that you say Golden State would agree to Trade Luther Head + Juwan Howard for Troy Murphy. They might and your support for that claim was that Troy Murphy has been a dead weight on the team because the team didn't go anywhere and becuase of his huge contract.

We as Rockets fans don't like Juwan howard because he is inconsistent at times and has a big contract. If Troy Murphy is a dead weight on a team where he is the primary option for the big men on the team then what makes you think he will be that peice we've been longing for. If he can't play well in a system with a former Allstar point gaurd then what makes you think he will be significant as a Rocket. He also has a big contract so Were not solving the Contract situation.

Troy Murphy also is not the best player for this team anyways. Sure he can rebound but how will his play be affected alongside Yao. Yao lives in the paint and the block. With another banger in the paint alongside Yao, Yao will have a hard time shooting with double teams coming to him faster. We need a PF that can spread the floor.


Blurr...With your suggestion to wait until next season to spend some of that money is absurd. Why did we bring in Shane Battier? TO WIN NOW!!!
Waiting one more season is almost as ridiculous as Juwan and Murphy's contract. We need veteran leadership now for our back court.</div>

Veteran leadership!??!? How much more veteran than Wesley and Sura!?!?
And please define "Leadership" on the court? on the sidelines? elaborate. And I see you don't agree with either Aznxballer or I but I your statement of aquiring help in the backcourt is broad and doesn't answer what You would do as the GM.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that Murphy would be a great addition, but I'm sure if he was available there would be WAY better offers from other teams. Juwan's contract is ridiculous and like you said maybe Head has reached his peak. I really don't think theres much a GM could do this offseason, lets get what we have and go to battle with it, if in midseason a trade is possible then maybe. as of now you do have some chemistry with 3 of your 4 starters and when Alston did play with Yao and McGrady it looked good, you may even say that our weakest position was the 2 with Wesley, wich we now have upgraded with Battier. A starting line up of T-Mac,Yao,Battier,Alston and Howard can be a contender and with some time (two years tops) can develp cohesivness on the court. Adding Murphy would be great but we would lose Head,a draft pick and still have a learning curve.</div>
Way better? Is that a fact? Who would want a powerforward that plays matador defense and has a big contract? He's actually getting paid more than Jason Terry, Mike Miller, and many other players that are actually worth. Now, I'm not saying he won't come at a price, but I think he would really help out the team be able to win now. Which team would want him? He would be a starter only on some teams, and because of his contract, teams like Atlanta, New Orleans, or Seattle wouldn't really want to take it on since they're in a rebuilding stage. Meanwhile, the ones that already have good starters wouldn't want to trade for a player like Murphy since well, its stupid to have a fat contract sitting on the bench. Howard's contract is expensive sure, but not nearly as much as Murphy's. Plus, Howard's ends two years sooner, which means the Warriors can either make a move in free agency or resign their young players. Which three starters having chemistry are you talking about? Alston, Yao, and McGrady? Because even if Howard's gone, those guys would still be here anyway, so its kind of irrelevant. The draft pick isn't really useful to us either. Its a second rounder, and I don't think much talent ends up there anyway. We drafted Steve Novak this year in the second round, do you really think he's going to have a big impact on us?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">AxnBaller, your arguement is falwed in the sense that you say Golden State would agree to Trade Luther Head + Juwan Howard for Troy Murphy. They might and your support for that claim was that Troy Murphy has been a dead weight on the team because the team didn't go anywhere and becuase of his huge contract.</div>
Like you said, they might. Besides, I included a second round pick in there. I must not have been clear or something. I said Troy Murphy is a deadweight to the Warriors because of several reasons. One, like you said, they have progressed really with Murphy. Two, they're moving in a direction where they really don't need Murphy and his style of play. In addition to that, like you said, his contract gives the team little financial flexibility, especially since its something that the team desperately needs. They're going to have to acquire better role players that can complement Davis and Richardson better, as well as having enough money to resign their young players like Pietrus, Ellis, and Biedrins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">
We as Rockets fans don't like Juwan howard because he is inconsistent at times and has a big contract. If Troy Murphy is a dead weight on a team where he is the primary option for the big men on the team then what makes you think he will be that peice we've been longing for. If he can't play well in a system with a former Allstar point gaurd then what makes you think he will be significant as a Rocket. He also has a big contract so Were not solving the Contract situation.</div>
Like I said before, I think you misinterpreted my "deadweight" point incorrectly. But anyway, I'll describe to you why he would fit in well with this team. Right now in Golden State, he's playing in a system where there really is no low post presence. Obviously, Murphy isn't one, and the other big man, Foyle is a horrible offensive player. Sure he's playing with Davis, but they don't really complement each other well. Both players are big on jumpshots and midrange to three pointers. Both of them in fact only shoot around 26% of close range shots. Let me say a little something about Murphy. He's the kind of guy that would work really well in an inside-outside type of system. The guard can drive it inside and kick it back out to him for the open three pointer. Now you tell me how that would work with really no low post presence on the Warriors? On the other hand, on the Rockets he would have constant kickouts from Yao and easy shots off of McGrady's double teams. Do we really need to solve it? Its not like we're going to ever get under the salary cap with Yao and McGrady's contract, so I don't think its even worth trying.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">
Troy Murphy also is not the best player for this team anyways. Sure he can rebound but how will his play be affected alongside Yao. Yao lives in the paint and the block. With another banger in the paint alongside Yao, Yao will have a hard time shooting with double teams coming to him faster. We need a PF that can spread the floor.
</div>
He'll actually be benefited by playing alongside Yao. Yeah, you're right that Yao lives in the paint and the block. Meanwhile, Murphy can play the midrange and perimeter game- camping out there/move around waiting for Yao's kickouts. He is by no means, a big banger. You want a powerforward that can spread the floor? You got it in Murphy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr:</div><div class="quote_post">
Veteran leadership!??!? How much more veteran than Wesley and Sura!?!?
And please define "Leadership" on the court? on the sidelines? elaborate. And I see you don't agree with either Aznxballer or I but I your statement of aquiring help in the backcourt is broad and doesn't answer what You would do as the GM.</div>
Wesley left bro.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr#7:</div><div class="quote_post">Veteran leadership!??!? How much more veteran than Wesley and Sura!?!?
And please define "Leadership" on the court? on the sidelines? elaborate. And I see you don't agree with either Aznxballer or I but I your statement of aquiring help in the backcourt is broad and doesn't answer what You would do as the GM.</div>


To be a leader you have to be a role model on the court and the sidelines. Wesley is gone and Sura can't be that leader because of his current condition. THe only true veterans we have on this team are Tmac, Yao, Shane Battier, Mutumbo, and Juwan Howard. Only one of those players is a veteran leader in the backcourt and thats Tmac. WE have no back court leadership. Everyone is unproven except those 5. Rafer Alston isn't on that list because he hasn't proven he can lead a team.

To me a veteran Leader is someone who can be a guy that the team can look too, Advise players at practice, etc.

I agree with you more than Axnballer. To add that veteran help. You can get Jim Jackson for cheap and Demarr Johnson is a possibility.

That would solve our need for a back up SF. You can't sign a decent starting PF with the money we have left.

 

[quote name='AznxBaller']Way better? Is that a fact? Who would want a powerforward that plays matador defense and has a big contract? He's actually getting paid more than Jason Terry, Mike Miller, and many other players that are actually worth.

You don't think any other teams would be interested in Murphy? You're kidding right?
This is almost the same story we got with Swift. "He'll fit right in" "He's athletic and can block shots" "He's exactly what the Rockets need". In the end Stro STILL was a back up, never got the system down and Howard gave you better minutes. And ended up back in Memphis.So we take a gamble on another "sure" fit? Why? Howard while not being as tallented or athletic is a JVG favorite and has shown he can play in the system on both ends.
And good riddens Wesley's gone!!

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
You don't think any other teams would be interested in Murphy? You're kidding right?
This is almost the same story we got with Swift. "He'll fit right in" "He's athletic and can block shots" "He's exactly what the Rockets need". In the end Stro STILL was a back up, never got the system down and Howard gave you better minutes. And ended up back in Memphis.So we take a gamble on another "sure" fit? Why? Howard while not being as tallented or athletic is a JVG favorite and has shown he can play in the system on both ends.
And good riddens Wesley's gone!!</div>
If that many teams were interested in Murphy, wouldn't you think something would have went down already? Besides, have you even read my little explanation on why team's might not be interested in him? Actually, I didn't like Swift from the start. Personally, I wanted Dan Gadzuric or Chris Andersen, but whatever. In my opinion, Murphy's a completely different story than Swift. He's actually had enough years of college to understand the fundamentals of basketball. Plus, he doesn't have a low basketball IQ like Swift. In short, he's a much more polished player. He's got a much more consistent jump shot, rebounds better, and can remember plays. If we keep having your attitude about trades and free agents, we really wouldn't be getting anywhere. In fact, you can pretty much argue that about any free agent that you wanted to sign in what was it? 07? In fact, why the hell did we trade for Battier? Don't we all consider him to be a "sure" fit as well?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I agree with you more than Axnballer. To add that veteran help. You can get Jim Jackson for cheap and Demarr Johnson is a possibility.</div>
Jim Jackson probably doesn't want to come back here anymore after we traded him away to New Orleans after telling him he can retire as a Rocket. Meanwhile, Derrmarr Johnson is a very inconsistent and streaky player. You say Murphy is inconsistent, but they you say you want to sign Johnson? Anyways, I feel special.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">If that many teams were interested in Murphy, wouldn't you think something would have went down already? Besides, have you even read my little explanation on why team's might not be interested in him? Actually, I didn't like Swift from the start. Personally, I wanted Dan Gadzuric or Chris Andersen, but whatever. In my opinion, Murphy's a completely different story than Swift. He's actually had enough years of college to understand the fundamentals of basketball. Plus, he doesn't have a low basketball IQ like Swift. In short, he's a much more polished player. He's got a much more consistent jump shot, rebounds better, and can remember plays. If we keep having your attitude about trades and free agents, we really wouldn't be getting anywhere. In fact, you can pretty much argue that about any free agent that you wanted to sign in what was it? 07? In fact, why the hell did we trade for Battier? Don't we all consider him to be a "sure" fit as well?</div>
We "ASSUME" Battier will be a perfect fit and believe I have no problems with making moves to get better and getting free agents to help out but at this time in the offseason and with the limited funds the Rockets have, I believe Howard will be our starting PF. There are too many variables in order for this or any "Big" deal to go down. Let me make this point, we lost to Dallas because Wesley got destroyed by Terry and had to guard stack in the post. With Battier and Howard in the lineup we win that series. Let's see what we got before we make drastic moves. Who knows this team could play well togheter. I leave it alone until I have a reason to change it.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">If that many teams were interested in Murphy, wouldn't you think something would have went down already? Besides, have you even read my little explanation on why team's might not be interested in him? Actually, I didn't like Swift from the start. Personally, I wanted Dan Gadzuric or Chris Andersen, but whatever. In my opinion, Murphy's a completely different story than Swift. He's actually had enough years of college to understand the fundamentals of basketball. Plus, he doesn't have a low basketball IQ like Swift. In short, he's a much more polished player. He's got a much more consistent jump shot, rebounds better, and can remember plays. If we keep having your attitude about trades and free agents, we really wouldn't be getting anywhere. In fact, you can pretty much argue that about any free agent that you wanted to sign in what was it? 07? In fact, why the hell did we trade for Battier? Don't we all consider him to be a "sure" fit as well?

Jim Jackson probably doesn't want to come back here anymore after we traded him away to New Orleans after telling him he can retire as a Rocket. Meanwhile, Derrmarr Johnson is a very inconsistent and streaky player. You say Murphy is inconsistent, but they you say you want to sign Johnson? Anyways, I feel special. </div>

Theres a difference though. With Murphy;s inconsistencies we are hurt alot more because he would become our starting PF. Thus getting a majority of the minutes at the spot. If Demarr Johnson was on the team as our vetern, then hed be a back up at best and would see court time, but how much would he see being TMAC's backup? Who's inconsistencies will show up as more significant if they join the rockets. Murphy's or Johnson's?

And if Murphy is such a step up from Swift and has all hese basketball qualities than how come GS sucks?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr:</div><div class="quote_post">
We "ASSUME" Battier will be a perfect fit and believe I have no problems with making moves to get better and getting free agents to help out but at this time in the offseason and with the limited funds the Rockets have, I believe Howard will be our starting PF. There are too many variables in order for this or any "Big" deal to go down. Let me make this point, we lost to Dallas because Wesley got destroyed by Terry and had to guard stack in the post. With Battier and Howard in the lineup we win that series. Let's see what we got before we make drastic moves. Who knows this team could play well togheter. I leave it alone until I have a reason to change it.</div>
Do you exactly know how limited the Rockets funds are? You don't, and thats not really something you can assume on. It doesn't matter if you believe Howard will be the starting powerforward. In this debate, its what you want the Rockets doing. And as general manager, I'm a bit iffy on that position and want to upgrade. Besides, what are those variables you're talking about? Please be a little bit more specific, I can't exactly read your mind here other than the whole we should just let this lineup as it is. Wesley wasn't even guarding Terry, he was guarding Stackhouse actually. And, he wasn't destroyed at all, he actually did decent and held Stackhouse to below season averages. Its kind of off topic, but if you want to go down that road you can. Just saying, its only going to hurt your cause. Again, who knows, perhaps with Murphy in the lineup we play even better...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">
Theres a difference though. With Murphy;s inconsistencies we are hurt alot more because he would become our starting PF. Thus getting a majority of the minutes at the spot. If Demarr Johnson was on the team as our vetern, then hed be a back up at best and would see court time, but how much would he see being TMAC's backup? Who's inconsistencies will show up as more significant if they join the rockets. Murphy's or Johnson's?

And if Murphy is such a step up from Swift and has all hese basketball qualities than how come GS sucks?</div>
Alright, so why did you argue that if we sign Jumaine Jones, he would be our second stringer? When in fact, that guy you said you wanted to sign is also, a bench and second stringer?

As for the inconsistency issue, I already adressed that. I'm not going to type it all out again, so if you want answers, go read above. Besides, he's not even all that inconsistent. In fact, I would say he's pretty consistent. Check out these stats- Murphy's ESPN Game Log. Even if he is only putting up single digit points, most of the time he comes up big on rebounds. Thus, he's still helping out the team whether or not he's scoring. The Warriors suck because their players don't really complement each other. While Richardson and Davis like to play the run and gun, Dunleavy likes to play in halfcourt sets. Meanwhile, a guy like Foyle would not be a starter on any team. In addition to that, Mike Montgomery isn't exactly doing a good job at all coaching and organizing the team. Thats why Golden State "sucks".

 

[quote name='AznxBaller']Do you exactly know how limited the Rockets funds are? You don't, and thats not really something you can assume on. It doesn't matter if you believe Howard will be the starting powerforward. In this debate, its what you want the Rockets doing. And as general manager, I'm a bit iffy on that position and want to upgrade. Besides, what are those variables you're talking about? Please be a little bit more specific, I can't exactly read your mind here other than the whole we should just let this lineup as it is. Wesley wasn't even guarding Terry, he was guarding Stackhouse actually. And, he wasn't destroyed at all, he actually did decent and held Stackhouse to below season averages. Its kind of off topic, but if you want to go down that road you can. Just saying, its only going to hurt your cause. Again, who knows, perhaps with Murphy in the lineup we play even better...


The variables I'm talking about are other teams, contract clauses and mainly why would GS want Howard?Or even Head for that matter they already got Davis and Brown so Head would be at the end of the bench. And Wesley did get destroyed I don't even know how many times Stack posted him up and hit on him. Rocket payroll for last year was roughly 56 mill, 6.5 million over the cap. next year it goes to 52 BUT and this is a big but, Clarence Weatherspoon, David Wesley, and Vin Baker all come off the salary cap this summer, which saves Houston about $15 million in cap space. If no one else is going to want Murphy like YOU said he'll be there next season after we see what this team can do togheter when healthy.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">
Alright, so why did you argue that if we sign Jumaine Jones, he would be our second stringer? When in fact, that guy you said you wanted to sign is also, a bench and second stringer?

As for the inconsistency issue, I already adressed that. I'm not going to type it all out again, so if you want answers, go read above. Besides, he's not even all that inconsistent. In fact, I would say he's pretty consistent. Check out these stats- Murphy's ESPN Game Log. Even if he is only putting up single digit points, most of the time he comes up big on rebounds. Thus, he's still helping out the team whether or not he's scoring. The Warriors suck because their players don't really complement each other. While Richardson and Davis like to play the run and gun, Dunleavy likes to play in halfcourt sets. Meanwhile, a guy like Foyle would not be a starter on any team. In addition to that, Mike Montgomery isn't exactly doing a good job at all coaching and organizing the team. Thats why Golden State "sucks".</div>

If you look at my arguement, you'll see that i didn't want Jumaine Jones because he would be a second string guy WITHOUT any veteran leadership. He is not a veteran. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


Your Basis to blame other players on GS for their troubles is correct but then why would they trade Murphy if he is not the problem. Why give away a double double guy for an oldy and an unproven gaurd when you can trade Dunleavy and Foyle and others?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
The variables I'm talking about are other teams, contract clauses and mainly why would GS want Howard?Or even Head for that matter they already got Davis and Brown so Head would be at the end of the bench. And Wesley did get destroyed I don't even know how many times Stack posted him up and hit on him. Rocket payroll for last year was roughly 56 mill, 6.5 million over the cap. next year it goes to 52 BUT and this is a big but, Clarence Weatherspoon, David Wesley, and Vin Baker all come off the salary cap this summer, which saves Houston about $15 million in cap space. If no one else is going to want Murphy like YOU said he'll be there next season after we see what this team can do togheter when healthy.</div>
If other teams really were pursuing Murphy, like I said before already, don't you think something would have went down already? Besides, I already listed a bunch of reasons why perhaps he isn't hot on the market right now. In addition to that, I also listed a bunch of reasons why they want Howard, Head, and the pick, but instead of arguing my reasons, you're just asking it over and over again. Its certainly a lot of redundancy here. However, because I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to reinterate all of it for you again . They want Howard because Murphy doesn't really seem to be in their plans and overall he just doesn't fit the current direction that they're going in. In addition, Howard provides a bit of contract relief in the future since his contract ends two years sooner. Plus, Howard's contract is cheaper so thats some extra incentive for them. Meanwhile, Head brings something that really isn't present on the Warriors. Some good shooting. To me, at this point only Davis and Richardson can actually consistently make shots for the team. Add in Head and at least they have another perimeter option that can score.

And about the Wesley point, here's Jerry Stackhouse's points and FGM/A in the series-

Game 1: 14 points, 4-13
Game 2: 8 points, 3-8
Game 3: 18 points, 4-12
Game 4: 10 points, 3-10
Game 5: 17 points, 6-13
Game 6: 21 points, 9-16
Game 7: 9 points, 4-10

If anything, I would say Stackhouse only "destroyed" Wesley once, in game six. All the other ones aside from maybe game five he shot horrible percentages. In fact, Wesley held Stackhouse in check, and probably even made him do worse than usual. Averaged together, Stackhouse had .402%, lower than his season average of .414%. Yeah, Wesley definitely got destroyed .

Can you see us as championship contenders with this team? Even with an above average team chemistry I doubt we can accomplish that, and I doubt you really believe that. Therefore, whats the point of keeping Howard if thats the highest ceiling this team can have? At least with the acquisition of Murphy and Jumaine Jones and at the same level chemistry we can probably accomplish greater things than with Howard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
If you look at my arguement, you'll see that i didn't want Jumaine Jones because he would be a second string guy WITHOUT any veteran leadership. He is not a veteran. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Your Basis to blame other players on GS for their troubles is correct but then why would they trade Murphy if he is not the problem. Why give away a double double guy for an oldy and an unproven gaurd when you can trade Dunleavy and Foyle and others?</div>
Jumaine Jones actually has more experience in the NBA compared to Dermarr Johnson, so I really don't know where you're trying to go on that one. If anything, he IS a veteran.

Because no one in the league would take Dunleavy and Foyle. Does any team in the league want Adonal Foyle, who averages 4.5 ppg and 5.5 rpg but still gets more money than most starters in the league? Meanwhile, Dunleavy has a similar syndrome, except that he's paid even more. His shot is inconsistent, he gets a low confidence everytime he misses, and he disappears during games.

 

Can you see us as championship contenders with this team? Even with an above average team chemistry I doubt we can accomplish that, and I doubt you really believe that.

"Never underestimate the heart of a champion"

 

Okay, time's up, thread locked.

Good debate everyone.