OT Roe V Wade In Trouble

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Chris Craig, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    She has to leave the state. Save her life. Pro life wants her to die.
     
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  2. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    I have said I hate mayonnaise. I hate the Lakers.

    That isn't true hate.

    I truly have a complete visceral hate for the smug smirking men who get off on women's pain. The greater our anguish and distress, the happier they are. Like the song says, they make wine from our tears.

    I could strangle men like Paxton with my bare hands. That is not hyperbole. I could.

    And hope it hurts.
     
  3. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    I feel for you and all women.

    I’m not for abortion. But I’m for women’s rights more.
    This is just sickening that anyone can’t take care of their own health first, at the expense of an unborn child.

    Just despicable. I try and I try to wrap my head around this absurd rationales that an unborn fetus is a more valuable life than the one fully grown hosting the fetus.
    All I come up with is confusion and hate.

    as a fairly conservative, pro life person who believes government needs to get out of our bedrooms, they also need to get out of our personal health decisions. Yes this is a health issue. It is not a pro life issue. When it comes to this, pro life takes a back seat to current health. Any politician trying to rule on this based on a religious believe should never be able to run for politics.

    Get religion the fuck out of politics and get the government the fuck out of our bedrooms and out of our damn bodies.

    Good grief hell is rising to the surface…and its mainly because of those who are religious to avoid “hell” (see mid east war thread).

    Religion. the biggest double standard in the history of recorded humans. I’m sorry for all of my friends who are religious. And I know I’m blanket statementing but damn. This is just crazy to not allow her an abortion to maintain her health and future fertility.

    back to my rock to crawl under now…
     
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  4. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Texas woman who sought court permission for abortion leaves state for the procedure, attorneys say

    AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — A pregnant Texas woman who was seeking court permission for an abortion in an unprecedented challenge to one of the most restrictive bans in the U.S. could not wait any longer and went to another state, her attorneys said Monday.

    The announcement came as Kate Cox, whose fetus has a fatal condition, was waiting for the Texas Supreme Court to rule whether she could legally receive an abortion. Her baby’s diagnosis has low survival rates and her attorneys said continuing the pregnancy jeopardized both her health and ability to have more children.

    “Her health is on the line. She’s been in and out of the emergency room and she couldn’t wait any longer,” said Nancy Northup, president and CEO of the Center for Reproductive Rights, which was representing Cox.

    The organization did not disclose where Cox went. On Monday, she would have been 20 weeks and six days pregnant.

    The court, which is made up of nine Republican justices, had given no timetable for a ruling. On Friday night, the court had paused a lower a judge’s order that gave Cox permission for an abortion.

    Roe v. Wade was overturned last year. Her lawsuit quickly became a high-profile test of bans in Texas and a dozen other GOP-controlled states, where abortion is prohibited at nearly all stages of pregnancy.

    Days after Cox filed her lawsuit, a pregnant woman in Kentucky also asked a court to allow an abortion. There has been no ruling yet in that case.

    Earlier Monday, two medical groups in the U.S. urged the Texas Supreme Court to rule in favor of Cox. Her attorneys said she had been to the emergency room at least four times since becoming pregnant again in August.

    Texas’ abortion ban makes narrow exceptions when the life of the mother is in danger but not for fetal anomalies.

    Republican Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who has defended the state’s strict anti-abortion laws for nearly a decade, argued that Cox did not demonstrate that the pregnancy had put her life in danger.

    “The Texas Legislature did not intend for courts to become revolving doors of permission slips to obtain abortions,” Paxton’s office wrote in a filing to the state Supreme Court last week.

    Dr. Leilah Zahedi-Spung, a maternal fetal medicine specialist in Colorado and a fellow with Physicians for Reproductive Health, said when lethal fetal anomalies are diagnosed “there’s only risk to that pregnant person and no benefit unfortunately for that innocent child.”

    “You are putting your body through risks without any benefit because prolonging the pregnancy doesn’t change the survival rate,” Zahedi-Spung said.

    Doctors told Cox that her fetus has a condition known as trisomy 18, which has a very high likelihood of miscarriage or stillbirth, and low survival rates, according to her lawsuit filed last week in Austin. They also told Cox that inducing labor or carrying the baby to term could jeopardize her ability to have another child.

    Trisomy 18 occurs in approximately 1 in 2,500 diagnosed pregnancies, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine. There is no live birth in about 70% of pregnancies involving the diagnosis that proceed past 12 weeks gestational age, according to a legal filing that the two groups submitted to the court.

    The termination of pregnancies because of fetal anomalies or other often-fatal medical problems is seldom discussed in national debates over abortion. There are no recent statistics on the frequency of terminations for fetal anomalies in the U.S. but experts say it’s a small percentage of total procedures.

    https://apnews.com/article/abortion-texas-ban-7d865cdfd75bdc6b2f4186f4d1e6e8bd
     
  5. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    Texas supreme court ruled she should be prepared to die.
     
  6. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Supreme Court to decide whether to restrict abortion drug nationwide

    The Supreme Court said Wednesday it will consider whether to restrict access to a widely used abortion drug — even in states where the procedure is still allowed.

    The case concerns the drug mifepristone that — when coupled with another drug — is one of the most common abortion methods in the United States.

    The decision means the conservative-leaning court will again wade into the abortion debate after overturning Roe v. Wade last year, altering the landscape of abortion rights nationwide and triggering more than half the states to outlaw or severely restrict the procedure.

    The new case could be decided by July, inserting the Supreme Court into the middle of the presidential election, where abortion access is once again a key issue.

    ...

    The legal volleying jumpstarted this spring, when US District Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk, an appointee of former President Donald Trump, issued a ruling that would have a halted the FDA’s 2000 approval of the drug.

    The judge said that the FDA failed to consider “the intense psychological trauma and post-traumatic stress women often experience from chemical abortion.” The term “chemical abortion,” which is preferred by abortion opponents, was repeatedly invoked by the judge in his ruling, as was “abortionist” and “unborn human.”

    Kacsmaryk also suggested that the FDA’s data was downplaying the frequency with which the drug was being mistakenly administered to someone who had an ectopic pregnancy, i.e. a pregnancy outside the cavity of the uterus. He repeated the challengers’ accusations that the FDA’s approval process had been the subject of improper political pressure.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/poli...-restrict-abortion-drug-nationwide/index.html
     
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  7. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    All these men telling women how traumatized we are when we make our own health care decisions.
     
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  8. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone believe the extreme court hasn't already made up their minds? They were put thete with prime objective: forced birth. No exceptions. Second objective: hate gays.

    Oppose voting rights so Republicans stay in power. Oppose unions, consumers, environment a plus.

    Federalist Society was founded by one man with the goal of outlawing all abortion and all forms of birth control. He later added no rights for queers. It has ties to Catholic and right wing evangelical churches, billions in funds and every Republican governor and president pledges only to appoint judges they recommend. Chosen for for ed birth views.
     
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  9. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    She miscarried in her bathroom. Now she’s charged with abuse of a corpse.

    Brittany Watts was still hooked to an IV, sick for almost a week from a potentially fatal miscarriage, when a detective from the Warren Police Department in Ohio stepped into her hospital room. He assured her that she wasn’t in any trouble.

    For more than an hour, Detective Nick Carney interviewed Watts, 33, about the details of that morning and the whereabouts of the nearly 22-week-old fetus that was declared nonviable two days earlier. As Watts described miscarrying in her bathroom, a nurse at Mercy Health — St. Joseph Warren Hospital rubbed her shoulders and told her everything would be okay, Watts told The Washington Post in a series of text messages.

    Two weeks later, Carney arrested Watts on charges of felony abuse of a corpse for how she handled the remains from her pregnancy. If indicted and found guilty, she faces up to a year in prison along with a fine of up to $2,500, her lawyer said.

    To describe Watts’s experience, The Washington Post reviewed police reports, call recordings and more than 600 pages of medical records, interviewed her lawyer, and spoke to Watts via text message.

    The arrest has outraged health-care professionals and reproductive rights activists — many of whom fear that the stigmatization and criminalization of women’s reproductive-related outcomes is expanding in the 18 months since the Supreme Court reversed a nearly 50-year precedent that gave women the constitutional right to an abortion. Even before restrictions from the Dobbs decision took hold, low-income women and women of color, particularly Black women, were disproportionately criminalized while pregnant.

    As many as 30 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriages, usually in the first trimester and often before a woman knows she is pregnant. Late miscarriages, such as Watts’s, are relatively rare, and doctors say that there’s no clear guidance for how fetal remains should be handled. In the past seven years, Ohio is among several states that enacted laws mandating that products of pregnancy be buried or cremated, although these rules typically apply to a health-care setting such as a clinic or doctor’s office rather than individuals who experience a pregnancy loss at home or elsewhere. A judge last year blocked Ohio’s law from being enforced pending a legal battle.

    “Moving this over to the individual after a miscarriage just heightens the question, ‘What are they supposed to do?’ ” said Dov Fox, a national health law and bioethics expert at the University of San Diego School of Law. “If it’s already difficult for hospitals, for individuals facing difficult circumstances and navigating pregnancy loss to undertake the medical system is not just a tall order but a prohibitive one.”

    Watts later learned through her lawyer that the nurse who had reassured her had reported her to the police.

    Neither health-care workers nor law enforcement officials dispute that Watts’s pregnancy loss was natural, and the coroner’s report determined that the fetus was uninjured, but a Trumbull County grand jury is now investigating her case.

    Watts said that along with mourning her loss, she is also dealing with how her “life was turned upside down” the day law enforcement was asked to intervene.

    “I am grieving the loss of my baby,” she told The Post this week. “I feel anger, frustration and, at times, shameful.”

    Watts, a medical receptionist at a different hospital, had woken in pain on the morning of Sept. 22. At her home in Warren, Ohio, about an hour east of Cleveland, she tried walking around indoors, but it didn’t lessen the pressure she felt in her abdomen.

    Watts was in her bathroom when she delivered a roughly 15-ounce fetus over the toilet. At the time, she said, she “didn’t know that at 5:48 a.m. [her] life would change forever.” The delivery left a mess of blood, stool, tissue and other bodily fluid, clogging the toilet. Watts scooped out what she believed was stopping the toilet and placed it outdoors, near the garage, cleaned the bathroom and showered, records show.

    To maintain appearances to her mother, whom she had not told about the pregnancy, Watts drove to a hair appointment, said Traci Timko, Watts’s attorney. The hairdresser noticed Watts’s pale face and immediately called her mother to take her to the hospital. It was Watts’s fourth pregnancy-related trip to the hospital that week.

    When a hospital nurse asked Watts where the fetus was, Watts told her, and later the police, that the fetus was outdoors, near the garage; Watts added that she didn’t look inside the toilet to make sure. A hospital note written and signed by the nurse said, “Advised by risk management to contact Warren City Police to investigate the possibility of the infant being in a bucket at the patient’s residence.” The next record shows that the nurse called the police.

    “I had a mother who had a delivery at home and came in without the baby and she says the baby’s in her backyard in a bucket,” the nurse said, according to a call recording obtained by The Post. “I need to have someone go find this baby, or direct me on what I need to do.”

    A spokesperson for Mercy Health, Maureen Richmond, declined to comment “out of respect for patient privacy.”

    Read the rest of the article here:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/othe...-s-charged-with-abuse-of-a-corpse/ar-AA1lxOeB
     
  10. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    A woman who had a miscarriage is now charged with abusing a corpse as stricter abortion laws play out nationwide


    An Ohio woman who had sought treatment at a hospital before suffering a miscarriage and passing her nonviable fetus in her bathroom now faces a criminal charge, her attorney told CNN.

    Brittany Watts, 33, of Warren, has been charged with felony abuse of a corpse, Trumbull County court records show.

    “Ms. Watts suffered a tragic and dangerous miscarriage that jeopardized her own life. Rather than focusing on healing physically and emotionally, she was arrested and charged with a felony,” her attorney, Traci Timko, told CNN in an email.



    “Ms. Watts’ case is pending before the Trumbull County Grand Jury. I have advised her not to speak publicly until the criminal matter has resolved.”

    Though a coroner’s office report said the fetus was not viable and had died in the womb, Watts’ case highlights the extent to which prosecutors can charge a woman whose pregnancy has ended – whether by abortion or miscarriage.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/19/us/brittany-watts-miscarriage-criminal-charge/index.html
     
  11. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    I am not posting in this thread to debate the abortion issue. I am saving that battle for another day, maybe.

    My point is, the district attorneys (DA) in this country are out of control, on both sides.

    They are abusing their power to shove their agendas down peoples throats, and I am tired of it.

    Not only by conservative DAs on the abortion issue. but also by the liberal DAs on crime and safety issues.

    How do we get politics out of the legal system? The legal system has become more of a weapon then a process for justice.
     
  12. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    DA's should have the freedom to do their job how they see fit as long as they aren't violating anybody's constitutional rights or any laws.

    DA's who are restricting abortion are pretty clearly violating people's 1st, 5th, and 14th amendment rights and those restrictions cannot be enforced without violating a person's 4th amendment rights.

    It's insane that this is even a topic of conversation, and is frankly a huge red flag regarding the health of democracy in the US. Every bit qs alarming as the conversations about banning guns.
     
  13. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    You want to debate this now, OK, I'll play.

    You claim a woman has the constitutional right to kill her baby. Please quote the exact wording in the constitution that supports your claim in the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 24th amendments.
     
  14. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I'll get back to the amendments, but first...

    Baby
    noun
    a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.
     
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  15. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    Unborn child, aka child in utero
     
  16. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    I am guessing old fisherman has never been pregnant which makes him expert on pregnancy.
     
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  17. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    First Amendment guarantees free exercise of religion. Jewish faith teaches a human life begins when a child is born and draws breath. There is no such thing as an "unborn child" in Judaism. Moreover, if there is a conflict between life of the fetus and life and health of the woman, including her mental health, the needs of the woman must take precedence. Abortion is not only not murder, it is literally mandated in such cases.

    Anti abortion laws deprive Jewish people of our religious freedom.

    Other faiths have similar views but I am less familiar with nuances of their interpretation.

    Fourth Amendment guarantees right of people to be secure in person and home from unreasonable search. Searching a woman's uterus and legally seizing it against the will of the woman is a violation.

    Fifth amendment protects against self incrimination. When a woman's body is forcibly examined for evidence of pregnancy and/ or use of birth control that is a violation.

    24th amendment addresses poll tax. Reference was to 14th, prohibition on involuntary servitude. Anyone who thinks pregnancy, labor and motherhood aren't servitude must be a man.
     
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  18. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    @oldfisherman

    What she said.

    I'm on my way back from a tournament, but it's better this way, as @crandc is far more qualified to answer than I.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2023
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  19. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

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    I'll address one point at a time.
    Your religious objection is untenable on two grounds.

    I'll agree there are many beliefs by many religions. I also agree, there are times, for the health of the mother, exceptions should be made. Being inconvenienced does not qualify to kill an unborn child.

    Using your point of religious freedom..

    We then should allow radical believing Muslims to kill anyone in the USA for religious reasons. The Quran dictates repeatedly that its followers must convert you to Islam, or kill you if you refuse. Some sects follow this belief.
    Some examples:
    Surah 3:151
    Surah 2:191
    Surah 9:5

    As far as your belief that life begins at birth.

    As far as when human life begins, you completely ignore science. Biology, the science of life, clearly states human life begins when a live male sperm enters a live female egg. Thus creating a new life that begins to grow. The delivery of the child from the womb is called birthing. That is why it is called birthday. Not the day it becomes illegal to kill the child day.


    I have no feeling in my hand and fingers, so writing this with large fingers on a small touch screen dumb phone is extremely difficult. Please excuse any errors.
     
  20. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    We don't make laws based on biology. We make laws based on what is best for society and, at least here in the US, with an eye on supporting individual liberty (ie, the Constitution of the United States).

    When exactly life starts is not very relevant to a healthy and thriving society. Nor is it relevant to individual liberty.

    The scientific method tells us that disallowing abortions is bad for society. It results in increased crime, decrease GDP, and a less educated and less healthy population.

    Therefore, since free societies make laws for the benefit of society, any abortion related law here in the US should be based on what is best for society, and in support of individual liberties (the Constitution).

    It just so happens that doing so also respects the aforementioned 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment rights of all American women.

    There really is only one right, moral, or even logical answer here. A baby shouldn't legally become a baby until there is a mother who wants and claims it or, as is spelled out in the 14th Amendment, the day it is born.
     
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