Ron Artest anyone? (merged w/ WFS93's thread)

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">I've read some of the consesus around most message boards:

Pacer fans: expecting equal value back. Camby, Pierce, Vince Carter etc. No way that happens.

Realistically the better deals that could be out there on the table are Magette from the clips(Dunleavy doesn't like him), Peja, or Antoine Walker from the heat.

If those deals fall through, it's on. Artest is there for the taking, it depends on who gets there first.</div>

Obviously, Pacers can't receive an equal value for Artest. I mean, which GM would like to have a player, who completely betrayed the goodwill of the team after one year suspension? I seriously doubt that Clippers will trade Magette for Artest (Pacers would be all over that deal), and Pacers will never touch Walker's contract. At this point, long rumored Peja for Artest deal sounds good...

 

I doubt seriously that Artest will end up in the East.

Just because he would like to play for the Knicks means nothing to the Pacers.

They don't want this guy playing any meaningful games against them for the remainder of the season.

The realistic trades are to be done in the west, and/or the Hawks or Toronto.

Our potential deal with Pietrus, #1, and maybe Fisher makes very good sense for the Pacers who will most likely want a young player with the potential to blow up. Fisher would also help them with their playoff run.

 

Look at the landscape from the past 20 years, who are/have been the top teams?

Realistically, trades almost never make you better. The only big trades in the past 20 years that made a team dramatically better:

Obviously, Shaq to Heat;
Rasheed to Pistons;
Kidd from Suns to Nets.

And to a lesser extent, Nash (Suns benchwarmer) to Mavs, Hamilton and Ben Wallace to Pistons (but they were not big names at the time of trades)

You build your team from within, let's praise Mully and Cohan for locking up what assets (even if not great assets) we had in JRich, Murphy and Dunleavy.

 

One other thing to add to whomever ends up with Artest. If he considerably helps that team out and doesn't have a meltdown, they could turn around and trade him and get back significantly more than what they delt him for. Just another angle to be thrown in here.

It's like a used BMW with some engine problems. You buy it from a person sick of dealing with the high servicing charges, give it a tune up and detailing then turn around and sell it for 5 grand more tha you bought it for.

 

You're right. Players have market value like stocks. Buy low, sell high or just keep them and win

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">One other thing to add to whomever ends up with Artest. If he considerably helps that team out and doesn't have a meltdown, they could turn around and trade him and get back significantly more than what they delt him for. Just another angle to be thrown in here.</div>

True but with this scenario it doesn't look good. Without a doubt Artest is crazy but Indiana itself is known for drama. Someone posted an article about Harrison smashing a picture of himself, Anthony Johnson was quoted saying "there's always drama here". Stephen Jackson has done/said some crazy things himself. That team needs a change ASAP. The damage has been done and Artest is on the IR, demanded a trade and the owner himself said it would get done. After all that, too much bathwater to drink then keeping Artest till the deadline. By 06' he's gone.

 

If there's any upgrade to our roster I sure hope it's at the center position. Biedrins is a nice 245 lb. power forward masquerading as a center, Taft is a shorter, but bulkier 260 lb center masquerading as a power forward. Both are young and lack certain skills and experience. We need a proven enforcer in the paint with veteran experience (playoff experience), but those are hard to come by.

Hmm... How much of an upgrade would Theo Ratliff be compared to Foyle? I'd actually want more depth at the middle spot than trading for Artest. Ratliff has power forward size, but plays center, but what other 7 foot big bodies are there? Kelvin Cato?

BTW sorry if I'm rambling, I'm just throwing out ideas.

Also if we're worried about losing Pietrus, maybe we can get a few prospects like Dorrell Wright? He's a nice swingman prospect. I don't know if Miami would give him up for a veteran guard.

 

ron artest anyone

Out of the best teams in the league, how many of them have legit centers.

I agree that our centers are young and inexperienced (except Foyle), but I don't agree that they'll be undersized when they're truly ready to play major minutes.

There's just not a really good center who we could get without a major shake-up. I do like Pryzbilla though. He's under-rated and a really good shotblocker. He could probably be had, but for what? Foyle? No.

 

Warriors pushing to add Artest...

Artest would be welcomed in Golden StateWarriors players have no objection to adding the controversial PacerWarriors notebook
SEATTLE -- Make no mistake about it. To a man, there are a few Warriors who will tell you in a heartbeat they'd love to have Indiana Pacers small forward Ron Artest as a teammate.
"(Expletive) yeah," Warriors guard Jason Richardson said. "He's one of the top players in this league. To get a guy like that ..."
Artest has been a hot topic around the league since the Pacers revealed Monday they are looking to deal the embattled All-Star after his public trade request. Warriors executive vice president Chris Mullin has a good relationship with Indiana's CEO and president Donnie Walsh, who traded for Mullin near the end of his playing career and groomed Mullin for a move to the front office.
Rumors and speculation had made its way to the Warriors locker room prior to Tuesday's game. One player said he was told of a scenario of the Warriors sending small forward Mike Dunleavy and center Adonal Foyle to the Pacers for Artest and center Jeff Foster, whom the Warriors drafted in the first round (No. 21) of the 1999 draft and immediately traded his rights to Indiana for the rights to guard Vonteego Cummings and a future pick.
The numbers match, as the Pacers' pair will earn $11.8 million this season and the Warriors' pair will make $11.9 million. Because both teams are over the salary cap, the contracts only have to come to within 25 percent of each other instead of the usual 15 percent. Also, Dunleavy and whichever one of the Warriors' younger talents -- i.e., forward/center Andris Biedrins, forward Zarko Cabarkapa, swingman Mickael Pietrus -- Indiana wants would fit. Guard Derek Fisher could be traded straight up for Artest, although it would certainly take a draft pick or a young talent to make it worth the Pacers' while.
If the Warriors were to acquire Artest, that would give them a starting perimeter of Artest, Richardson and Baron Davis. It would also significantly improve their ability to defend the perimeter.
"He plays so hard all the time," Foyle said. "We could use that. I admire anyone who plays like that."
Artest, who missed most of last season after being suspended for his part in the infamous brawl at The Palace of Auburn Hills, would certainly bring a circus to town and challenge the mellow mood of the Warriors locker room. He seems to be a magnet for controversy and is known for his temper.
The Warriors have a pretty reserved locker room, with Davis being the most flamboyant character. There seems to be little or no in-fighting and they have avoided off-the-court problems in recent years. Like Tabasco sauce on scrambled eggs, adding Artest would certainly give the Warriors roster some kick.
Warriors forward Troy Murphy said he wouldn't mind one bit.
"He'd be great (for us)," Murphy said with a smile. "It's too quiet around here."

First of all how can we trade Dunleavy when we just signed him to an extension. I personally would love to see Dunleavy and Foyle sent for him even though Dunleavy has been playing up to expectations finally...

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctime...rs/13404119.htm

 

Kwan, Is this trade possible? If in fact it was, we'd need to move a few players for a shot blocker, either at the 4 or the 5.

 

This trade sucks. Mark it down and remember it a year or two from now if this trade goes down.

Yes Artest is a great talent, probably one of only a handful of players in the world.

But, he's a quitter. He has bsaically quit on the Pacers this year, and only a few months after saying he would pay back his teammates for last year. Quitters do not win and do not change, ever.

I have a great feeling about the Warriors for now and for the next 5 years. A trade for Artest would douse that enthusiasm.

I have confidence that Mullin is not that short-sighted and will not pull the trigger on Artest.

 

I am not too sure about poison pill status in detail so I can't say it 100%, but I can say it with 99% confidence that it's not possible. Because, if it is, there really isn't a meaning for a poison pill status rule, which exists to prevent teams from dumping players before their new contract even kicks in. Most likely Thompson didn't realize about poison pill and looked at hoopshype, because 11.8 mils figure exactly matches with combination of Dunleavy and Foyle's 2005-2006 salary. I leave 1% of doubt, because there is a chance that package can be huge and his poison pill effect can be within 25% difference with new CBA. I have yet to see teams even attempting to trade players with poison pill or how 25% difference will affect a trade market, but I still would be extremely surprised if any player with poison pill ever get dealt for years to come. Anyway, entire article really is talking about how some players don't mind playing with Artest with no real substance to hang onto. So, I won't hold a breath about Dunleavy rumor...

 

OK. Can somebody interprete this one? It's about the detail of poison pill, and I just can't understand what he is talking about

"If a team tries to trade an extended rookie between the date his extension is signed and the date it takes effect, his "trade value" for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the scale contract and each year of the extension. This is called the "poison pill provision."

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73

My best guess is that it will be (44 mils for 5 year + 4.5 mils for 1 year)/6 = 8.08 mils.

If that's the case, Dunleavy + Foyle package will be 15.31 mils. It still is beyond Artest + Foster (11.8 * 1.25 = 14.75). And, if you really want to go through this deal, you have to add another player, who's making 3 mils or more. That means, we have to package two other players to do so. If Indiana have a trade exception like us, it would be completely different story. But it doesn't seem like they have, so...

 

So you'd add (this season's salary, plus the salary of all of the extented years), then divide by (this year, plus the extended years) and get the Trade Value

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CohanHater:</div><div class="quote_post">So you'd add (this season's salary, plus the salary of all of the extented years), then divide by (this year, plus the extended years) and get the Trade Value</div>

Yeah, if that's the case, you can't make that trade, because Dunleavy's value will be 8.08 mils. In order to fit into 25% difference, it has to be more than 18 mils package for both sides with combination of 6 to 8 players. I seriously doubt that both teams will go through that kind of trade, when neither teams are in serious rebuilding mode. If it were offseason, there may be a possibility though...

Edit: OK. Nevermind. According to ESPN board, Indiana does have 2.6 mils trading exception, and that does make this trade workable...

 

The point of this article and why I posted it was not to ask if it was possible, but that it was suprising how warmly the core of our team responded to adding a volitile player like Artest. Our chemistry seems to be great at this point and the players evidentally dont think adding a player like Artest to our team would be a negative, but rather a resounding positive. It also is interesting because if this trade does not go through what does that say for Dunleavy and Foyle? It would make me feel a bit unappreciated. Dunleavy has finally started playing the way we all expected him to and Foyle has also done the same. So after they are playing well, the team would still rather have Artest? I think the trade would not be a good idea because by trading Foyle we lose our low post defender and we dont really have anyone else to fill that need. I am not sure Foster would fill that need either...

I bet the fans would love Dunleavy out there in the mid west...

 

Just when he's starting to play well, Hmm... The problem I have with this trade is that it would create a need for another trade. If Mullin can setup a trade that will move Murphy and Fisher for instance for a legit 4 or 5, then it's doable. Zarko could back up Artest, Pietrus could be the 6th man at 3/4, but we'd need to have a defending big somehow. Murphy and Biedrins ar 4/5 just won't cut it all year long. Is Artest worth "starting over" that's debateable, but I honestly think it is if we can move Foyle, Fisher, and Dunleavy's contracts in doing so.

 

Indiana would have Dunleavy and Croshere.... haha.

My take is that the quotes were taken out of context, obviously... It is surprising that J-Rich would respond with a resounding F-, yeah, if he was asked if adding Artest meant breaking up the team. The quote ends in a ... which can only mean he went on to say how the team would have to be broken up and the chemistry changed. And, Murph's comments seem to have a flavor of sarcasm, like usual.

 

Artest is a quitter. It does not matter what you can do, if you are a quitter, you are a cancer.