Rookie to Start Over Monta?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Shapecity, Sep 27, 2007.

  1. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air Monta)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    While I think alot of Marco's numbers from summer league were padded from the amount of PT he got , nearly playing entire games, he looked every bit an NBA veteran and did nothing he wouldn't be doing in the Warriors offense. Sure he will have his difficulties on the defensive end but he's no revolving door either. If this was a kid rigt out of college that would be one thing but Marco has alot of experience against tough competetion in Europe and his game is tailor made or the fast break, coming off screens, as well as awaiting a kickout from Baron. I agree Monta isn't a 2 against most teams in the NBA and Belineli has the size and such a sweet effortless stroke i'm sure Nellie will make it work perfectly as he maximizes strengths and minimizes weaknesses of players like none other. I think it's a good move but we might need to wait for Jackson back and playing alongside him before we all see what Don is envisioning.</p>

    </div></p>

    Belinelli didn't play more than 30 mins often. LOL</p>

    </div></p>

    Maybe you're both right.</p>

    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700015
    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700005
    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700023
    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700042</p>

    Only 4 games... it's not often, but he did average more than 30 min per game in the ones he played in.

    4 games isn't enough to really see what his tendencies are and what his 82 game performance might be like. Especially against subpar players who haven't established any team chemistry. It's why an aging nets (back when they had Kmart and Kittles) could still whip our butts even when we had Arenas, Jamison, Richardson, Murphy, and Boykins.

    Like reganomics813 points out, he did get more minutes and his role was first option offense player in summer league. In the Warriors final roster, he may be anywhere from 3rd option starter to off the bench first option guy. Plus, he'd get fewer touches if we're talking about Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson as primary offensive players (both can act as setup guys on offense so this is natural). So in order to make up Jason Richardson's 20 ppg, I guess we would need Belenelli to be as productive or get the never before seen Brandan Wright in there to start scoring some. I think a final roster of Sjax, Baron Davis, and Marco would absolutely be fun to watch because they all play like guards are supposed to. Should be lots of swinging the ball around and driving down the lane. Now... we just need inside offensive presence and better rebounding, and we got ourselves a team with bigger potential than anything we've seen in a while.</p>

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  2. reganomics813

    reganomics813 Get ready for typos!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (custodianrules2)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air Monta)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    While I think alot of Marco's numbers from summer league were padded from the amount of PT he got , nearly playing entire games, he looked every bit an NBA veteran and did nothing he wouldn't be doing in the Warriors offense. Sure he will have his difficulties on the defensive end but he's no revolving door either. If this was a kid rigt out of college that would be one thing but Marco has alot of experience against tough competetion in Europe and his game is tailor made or the fast break, coming off screens, as well as awaiting a kickout from Baron. I agree Monta isn't a 2 against most teams in the NBA and Belineli has the size and such a sweet effortless stroke i'm sure Nellie will make it work perfectly as he maximizes strengths and minimizes weaknesses of players like none other. I think it's a good move but we might need to wait for Jackson back and playing alongside him before we all see what Don is envisioning.</p>

    </div></p>

    Belinelli didn't play more than 30 mins often. LOL</p>

    </div></p>

    Maybe you're both right.</p>

    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700015
    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700005
    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700023
    http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/games/...meId=1520700042</p>

    Only 4 games... it's not often, but he did average more than 30 min per game in the ones he played in.

    4 games isn't enough to really see what his tendencies are and what his 82 game performance might be like. Especially against subpar players who haven't established any team chemistry. It's why an aging nets (back when they had Kmart and Kittles) could still whip our butts even when we had Arenas, Jamison, Richardson, Murphy, and Boykins.

    Like reganomics813 points out, he did get more minutes and his role was first option offense player in summer league. In the Warriors final roster, he may be anywhere from 3rd option starter to off the bench first option guy. Plus, he'd get fewer touches if we're talking about Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson as primary offensive players (both can act as setup guys on offense so this is natural). So in order to make up Jason Richardson's 20 ppg, I guess we would need Belenelli to be as productive or get the never before seen Brandan Wright in there to start scoring some. I think a final roster of Sjax, Baron Davis, and Marco would absolutely be fun to watch because they all play like guards are supposed to. Should be lots of swinging the ball around and driving down the lane. Now... we just need inside offensive presence and better rebounding, and we got ourselves a team with bigger potential than anything we've seen in a while.</p>

    </p>

    </p>

    </p>

    </div></p>

    Very nice work posting those box scores custodianrules. I over exxagerrated a bit because in three games I watched I barely remember him coming out and the team as a whole being much better when he was on the floor. The fact that while summer league is a big step below NBA competetion is without question but if he can get his alongside Azibuke and Pierce who were looking for theirs as much if not more than anyone then playing alongside two very unselfish vets in Jax and BDiddy is a recipe for success. I'd say he's definately more of a finisher flanked with those two guys but Marco will keep doubles coming from his man as he knows how to play off the ball and has suprising athleticism. I think a good NBA comparison for him is Ray Allen with how he uses his shooting to his advantage than having it be his crutch and defensively how he shoots the lane moreso than a strong man defender. That's not to say he's the next Ray Allen but there could very well be nights where he seems like he is on this team be it in the starting lineup or off the bench.</p>

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  3. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    I don't think its makes sense to assume that the main reason Nelson's high on Bellinelli is because of his summer league play. I actually don't think its that big a factor for him at all. Belli's been playing well against much tougher European competition for a couple of years now and that's more impressive than anything he could've done against those summer league scrubs. We all finally got our first taste of Marco this summer, but you got to believe the Warriors' scouting and Nelson already were aware of his skillset/potential and what he was capable of.</p>
     
  4. reganomics813

    reganomics813 Get ready for typos!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    I don't think its makes sense to assume that the main reason Nelson's high on Bellinelli is because of his summer league play. I actually don't think its that big a factor for him at all. Belli's been playing well against much tougher European competition for a couple of years now and that's more impressive than anything he could've done against those summer league scrubs. We all finally got our first taste of Marco this summer, but you got to believe the Warriors' scouting and Nelson already were aware of his skillset/potential and what he was capable of.</p>

    </div></p>

    </p>

    100% Correct. He really made a big name for himself against team USA a year ago but he's been on the radar of scouts even before that. Summer league, when it all comes down to it, is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things but it's nice to use it as somewhat of an indicator that his transition will seemingly be an easy one. I don't think it hurt that Don saw him in person being one of the best players on the floor from behind the bench but that's not all he's going off of in deciding to start Maco by any means. He did his homework and I think he weighed the pros and cons of both players and liked the idea of Monta off the bench, also this is Nellie we're talking about so this edict is hardly written in stone. I know coming off the bench has a certain stigma attached to it but Ellis is a damn fine young guard and there will be plenty of games he'll be on the floor at the end of games when it counts so who cares really. I think Warrior fans will enjoy both guards thoroughly all season long.</p>
     
  5. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    I don't think its makes sense to assume that the main reason Nelson's high on Bellinelli is because of his summer league play. I actually don't think its that big a factor for him at all. Belli's been playing well against much tougher European competition for a couple of years now and that's more impressive than anything he could've done against those summer league scrubs. We all finally got our first taste of Marco this summer, but you got to believe the Warriors' scouting and Nelson already were aware of his skillset/potential and what he was capable of.</p>

    </div></p>

    Definitely true. Otherwise coaches would get fooled by the likes of Nikoloz Tskitishvilli (who I think won Rocky Mountain Revue honors in Summer League before Vegas with something like 16ppg and I don't know how many rebounds)</p>

    ...and my memory does serve me right (except for actual stats, but yeah I had my eye on him over Dunleavy as the third overall draft pick in 2002)! Which ended up a big mistake by me or by the Nuggets for not having developed him correctly. But then again, I remember his worst game from the Warriors... all he did was just shoot and shoot and miss and miss and he never dribbled much or posted up or shot something closer within his range. Ug... Tall was all he was.</p>

    http://www.nuggetshoops.com/articles/2004/...-summer-league/

    Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Forward- Skita showed signs of why the Nuggets drafted him. In the Vegas Summer League he averaged 25.7 ppg and 6 rpg and was chosen as a All-Star performer. He was also chosen to the All-Revue team at the Rocky Mountain Revue. Time may be tough for him next year with the addition of Kenyon Martin and he may be traded. If he can go into training camp and continue to play well he could get some more time. He is only 21 years old and should just be a senior in College, so he still has potential to be a solid player in the league.</p>

    And then fooled again by Magic Lamp when he did some impressive outings with the Knicks and later on some decent numbers with Hornets and one game where he exploded for a Dirk Nowitzki type box score, but I can't find that right now.

    You could say that Knicks draft pick Maciej Lampe matured with age in the Reebok Rocky Mountain Revue held in Utah from July 21-26. Lampe (17.2ppg, 7.0rpg), was named to the All-Revue First Team. After struggling to find his stroke in the Reebok Pro Summer League in Boston (9.3 ppg, .344 FG percentage), Lampe was brilliant and looked like the second-round steal the Knicks thought he would be.

    http://vegassummerleague.nba.com/teams.cfm?team=10

    I pray Belinelli won't fool us and that he actually is an nba starter.</p>

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  6. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    According to the article Ellis would come off the bench. The projected starting lineup would be:</p>

    PG - Baron
    SG - Bellineli
    SF - SJax
    PF - Al
    C - Beans</p>

    </div></p>

    I don't get if if this is true. I love Marco from LVSL but he needs to earn the starting role. Monta has earned it with his performance from last season and becoming MIP. Whoever wrote this article is an idiot.</p>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwan1031)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    Primary reason for Richardson trade was to dump Richardson's contract, not because of Wright. Some salary moves had to be made in order to resign both Biedrins and Monta (or dump either one of them). Since, Warriors could get rid of Richardson's salary + 8th pick, Warriors decided to make that trade.</p>

    </div></p>

    Are you basing this on what Mullin said or is it your opinion? I read Mullin had Brandan Wright ranked fourth in the draft. That's a no-brainer and would be a major coup and rip off of the Hornets.</p>

    That said, Wright has to perform. I've been reading some Wright reviews from NC posters and they are extremely high on this guy and that he'll become an all-star in a few years.</p>

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  7. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    No way I am bashing Mullin's movement. I always said before the draftthat we have to either trade Monta or dump some big salary to resign both Biedrins and Monta, because our salary situation just didn't allow us to resign both Biedrins and Monta while keeping big contracts like Richardson, Harrington, or Foyle. In ideal situation, it would be very nice to dump either Harrington or Foyle, but since we would never be able to dump their contracts, the ideal and attractive contract to dump was Richardson. So, I thought we would have to make a move between Richardson and Monta. I was very impressed that we actually was able to dump Richardson for nothing + pick, and while it would hurt us in short term and I personally hated to see Richardson go, it was a right move for a long term.</p>

    For primary reason for the trade had to be because of resigning both Biedrins and Monta, not Wright, because the trade was arranged a day before the draft, and there was no way for Mullin to know who would be available. I mean, it's highly unlikely that Mullin would just satisfied by dumping Richardson for nothing, and 8th pick would have been a big factor. But, if they could get 8th pick, but they don't get a financial flexibility by accepting a long term deal in return, I don't think Mullin would have made that deal. All deals we made, such as Richardson, Foyles' buy out,Barnes' one year contract, and Pietrus situation point outfora large financial flexibility in next season. If Mullin actually aimed to draft somebody, my best guess would be Yi though...</p>
     
  8. Dre

    Dre At least we're friends.

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    Monta seems like he'll be best as a 6th man, but I don't agree with some rookie starting over him.</p>
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwan1031)</div><div class='quotemain'>For primary reason for the trade had to be because of resigning both Biedrins and Monta, not Wright, because the trade was arranged a day before the draft, and there was no way for Mullin to know who would be available. I mean, it's highly unlikely that Mullin would just satisfied by dumping Richardson for nothing, and 8th pick would have been a big factor. But, if they could get 8th pick, but they don't get a financial flexibility by accepting a long term deal in return, I don't think Mullin would have made that deal. All deals we made, such as Richardson, Foyles' buy out,Barnes' one year contract, and Pietrus situation point outfora large financial flexibility in next season. If Mullin actually aimed to draft somebody, my best guess would be Yi though...</div></p>

    Yeah, I was almost certain that if Boston didn't get Yi, he would be ours if we knew that we were getting the 8th pick well in advance. And it would totally gyp Chicago if they were after him since its one spot ahead of 9th. But, I think we should be happy with Wright. Not many kids his age have the inside scoring footwork to actually play offense. I almost think if Mullin really latches on to this kid, there will be enough room to possibly re-sign him when Harrington's deal expires and Foyle's remaining buyout amount comes off the books. But, we have to think also about Belinelli's future contract if he explodes.</p>

    Anyway, good move on Mullin's part. I agree with everything he's done even if it hurts us short term, because to continue the course would have been suicide in terms of our window of opportunity. We can't barely make the playoffs again and hope for another first round upset. Mullin has to try to do the moves that will only set us back temporarily and put us in a position to be good for at least a decade (to me that is a successful run at even competing for a championship trophy so long as we get better bit by bit). If Biedrins/Ellis and either of Belinelli/Wright turn out to be strong position pieces, that's a good young team for years to come. I don't want to count out Baron Davis (our best player as of now), but it all comes down to his injuries, what next year will bring, and his attitude toward leaving enough room to put good pieces around him. If he wants all the cash, we can't put the team we want around him, and he later opts out anyway because we're not doing that well, hell, I'd rather start clean. I'm convinced unless we can get both Shaq and Kobe on the same team, we should be building a team as if we were small market (because we seem that way in terms of willingness to spend luxury tax). I would love to have an underrated team that wins big rather than have a big market name player that goes on the front of video game boxes and doesn't win any championships. We could have the most boring team in the world, as long as they win or get to the finals, I'll be happy.</p>


    BTW sorry for the run on sentences! [​IMG]</p>

    </p>
     
  10. Duckmyster

    Duckmyster JBB JustBBall Member

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    honestly at this time i don't care who starts all I care is that whoever starts delivers because we are going to have have one hell of a month to start and the last thing the Warriors need is a slow start. The team is going to have to click with the new additions in order to survive the first month of the season.</p>
     
  11. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Marco has been a star in professional ball for several years now. He did not just come out of highschool like Monta did. Monta is one of my favorite players, and his athleticism is out of this world, but Marco -- from day one -- will show more savvy, presence, and playmaking ability than Monta has yet to have shown.</p>

    </p>

    In the long run, both players could turn into NBA stars, and Monta has a higher roof (because you can't teach quickness or hops), but Marco plays a little bit like Chris Mullin, and Nelson likes that.</p>

    </p>

    Watch Marco -- he has the one most important aspect needed to be an offensive playmker -- temporal feel. Timing. Rythm. He has what Pietrus will never have. The ability to slow up just a step, hesitate, get the defender off balance, be patient, wait for the screen, use it, ride it, feel that ONE moment when the opening is there -- and then enter the opening. He can beat guys much faster than him simply because he can feel their rythm, tune into it, and then play off it. Be quick but never hurry. Slow down, speed up. Think Steve Nash -- one of the less athletic PGs in the league, yet by far the most deadliest. Think Sam Cassell. Slow, yet ALWAYS getting open and into the seams of the defense.</p>

    Pietrus? One gear only. Full throttle. Monta? He's getting there, but Marco, he's got that intangible feel for the game, and that's why, IMO, Nelson is so high on him.</p>
     
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Nash was actually athletic in terms of quickness, just not hops (He's 6'3 and I've never seen him dunk yet). Oh yeah, Nash has slowed down over the years, but he has two weapons that few quick guards have in the league and that is the ability to flat out shoot both inside and out (off balance, off the dribble, from a set stance, at the foul line) and he can handle the ball extremely well. Mix those two weapons with outstanding vision and court sense and you got a playmaker that actually gets better with age despite losing feet quickness. Sam Casell is slower than Nash, but he's also a very smart player and he's clutch because he's got great confidence and he's a great shot from midrange, outside, and at the foul line. He talks trash too and then lets his game do the talking by making the right move as opposed to the Pietrus move</p>

    We'll see if Belinelli is as good as advertised. He seems quick and he seems like a good shot and ballhandler. But he could also be another version of Brent Barry, a guy who is a great role player at 3 positions, but never averaged more than 15ppg per season. Now that guy was more than athletic, could handle the rock, pass it, even won the dunk contest, and he's a deadly 3 point shooter. But he never really was a star like his old man.

    Let's just say I feel that Belinelli could have a chance to be a bust, so it's not like I want to jock this guy like he's the next Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. I want to see what he's about in the pros, 82 game season, nba rules, nba competition, not Euro rules or summer league reffing and summer league competition. But let's say if Belinelli does turn out to be a bust or has a really slow start... that's why we have Azu, Ellis, and Pietrus and many of these returning players for. We at least have other options and depth at that two guard spot even if our bench doesn't have any ideal sized or skilled shooting guards.</p>

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  13. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    According to the article Ellis would come off the bench. The projected starting lineup would be:</p>

    PG - Baron
    SG - Bellineli
    SF - SJax
    PF - Al
    C - Beans</p>

    </div> We might set a new record by getting a total of 12 rebounds in a game</p>

    </p>
     
  14. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlleyOop)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

    Marco has been a star in professional ball for several years now. He did not just come out of highschool like Monta did. Monta is one of my favorite players, and his athleticism is out of this world, but Marco -- from day one -- will show more savvy, presence, and playmaking ability than Monta has yet to have shown.</p>

    </p>

    In the long run, both players could turn into NBA stars, and Monta has a higher roof (because you can't teach quickness or hops), but Marco plays a little bit like Chris Mullin, and Nelson likes that.</p>

    </p>

    Watch Marco -- he has the one most important aspect needed to be an offensive playmker -- temporal feel. Timing. Rythm. He has what Pietrus will never have. The ability to slow up just a step, hesitate, get the defender off balance, be patient, wait for the screen, use it, ride it, feel that ONE moment when the opening is there -- and then enter the opening. He can beat guys much faster than him simply because he can feel their rythm, tune into it, and then play off it. Be quick but never hurry. Slow down, speed up. Think Steve Nash -- one of the less athletic PGs in the league, yet by far the most deadliest. Think Sam Cassell. Slow, yet ALWAYS getting open and into the seams of the defense.</p>

    Pietrus? One gear only. Full throttle. Monta? He's getting there, but Marco, he's got that intangible feel for the game, and that's why, IMO, Nelson is so high on him.</p>

    </div> Pietrus explosiveness would be damn hard to stop IF he could dribble well in traffic at that speed.. Sometimes it HAS worked,and the other team is all.....OMG...if he could do that a lot we'd be SOooo screwed....</p>

    </p>
     

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