Rose and Bulls at odds?

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by transplant, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sorry if I missed a Rose rehab thread, but this is clearly the Bulls' story of the day.

    According to several team sources, Rose has been medically cleared to play. In essence, when Rose returns to NBA game action is up to Rose.

    Personally, I find this kind of a non-story. There's nothing that could happen to Rose in a game that couldn't happen to him in team scrimmages (which he's been participating in for a couple weeks now). Effectively, the medical staff cleared him to return to play when they let him fully-participate in practice.

    There are reports that Rose is hesitant to return to game action until he feels good about dunking off his left foot. Yeah, whatever.

    Rose will return when he's ready. This hasn't changed. What has changed is that it's being made very clear that Rose's return is on Rose.

    Within reason, I'm fine with the Bulls giving DRose time to get up the necessary confidence.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I understand the POV.

    Why should the player accept the ruling of management's medical staff? They're paid to get Rose out there as soon as possible. Rosie's personal doctor may be less aggressive.

    Teams' medical staffs don't seem all too trustworthy to me. Deng's dinged up year after year. Noah's playing 48 minutes on sore feet.

    I'm not picking on the Bulls per se. The Blazers have a terrible record with knee injuries.

    It seems to me that Rose's quite legitimate concern is to make his comeback like Adrian Peterson's instead of Danny Granger's.
     
  3. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I think it's one thing for an athlete to get a second medical opinion. I don't think anyone would deny Rose this, but that doesn't seem to be the issue. The Bulls' doctors are saying that his knee is medically sound and no other doctors familiar with Rose's case are disagreeing with this. Rather, Rose has said that he doesn't feel ready.

    I think it's clear that Rose doesn't feel like his knee is as good as it was before the injury. The doctors say that this is normal, that playing should help matters and yet it's possible that the knee may never feel as good as it did before the injury.

    I certainly hope that this doesn't become contentious and I don't think it will. Absent any medical evidence to the contrary, Rose ought to return to the NBA court sooner rather than later, but given that DRose is the most important asset for the team's future, his feelings should be given serious weight. A mutually-agreeable course is obviously what everyone should be seeking.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The Bulls are comfortably in the playoffs. They'd have to go through a major nose dive to end up 9th in the conference. They're up by 10.5 games today.

    Does the team want him to play:
    1) Because it sells tickets?
    2) Because they want to assure they make playoffs?
    3) They actually think they have a chance in the playoffs?
    4) They're ready to see Kirk at SG for the rest of the season?
    5) They want Rose to get some PT in before summer and next season?

    I don't care for any of the reasons. The only thing that can possibly make sense is to allow Rose to determine his own return without any pressure. The team has done it's part, he has to finish doing his. And by finish, I mean be ready.

    Adrian Peterson.

    NOT

    Danny Granger
     
  5. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    None of the above. The doctors say that it will help his eventual full recovery to play in games, even if in limited minutes, as soon after he is medically cleared as possible.
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That would be #5

    He's practicing and playing in 5-on-5 drills. Seems like a fine way to recover from injury.
     
  7. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    Denny, are you being disingenuous? :-)

    Game time situations are *part* of the rehab, situations which *can't* be replicated in practice.

    I don't know how the Bulls feel. If they want to put "pressure" on Rose to just play, this is a stupid way to do it. Perhaps they are stupid. Jerry is on record as saying he didn't want to let Rose back until everything was right. I don't know. I'm not that concerned, I guess. Perfectly content regardless of what happens. Ommmmm.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm not concerned about him playing this season, period. I'm perfectly satisfied to see him use the rest of the season and offseason to prepare himself more fully, both physically and mentally.

    The "can't dunk off the left foot" thing will become an excuse for him not playing up to par. And that's not a direction that I want to see this go.

    No, I'm not being disingenuous.
     
  9. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    The Bulls chose to make this public today in an attempt to pressure Rose to take the court sooner by using the court of public opinion against him.

    The only reason the Bulls have not continued to be a .500ish basketball hell mess is that Derrick Rose luckily fell into management's laps.

    Don't piss Rose off. He's all management has right now if the goal is to win a NBA title and he's all we have as fans to really be excited about.

    Perhaps taking it public will be an effective tactic to get Rose on the court sooner this year. Stupid move though if bad blood develops.

    I mean, what are the odds that you'll luck into the #1 pick again?
     
  10. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yup, the Bulls were lucky to get that #1 pick and I've certainly heard organizational hyper-critics use this fact to diminish the team's accomplishments. Of course I don't remember too many of those critics writing the Bulls a pass in 2002 when they were doubly unlucky - the Rockets slipped ahead of the Bulls in the draft order to grab the #1 overall selection (Yao Ming) despite having only a 8.9% and then the Bulls took the star-crossed Jay Williams with the 2nd overall pick. Nope, only the good luck part fits the agenda.

    In 2003, DWade was there for the Heat at #5 overall, Nowitzki at #9 for the Mavs in 1998 and Kobe for the Lakers at #13 in 1996. Luck takes many forms, but the best teams seldom gain that status without some.

    As for Rose, damn right he's important to the Bulls' future success. I hope he does what is best for his complete, physical and mental, recovery.
     
  11. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Let Rose come back when he is ready. If it is next season, then so be it.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Rumor was the Bulls refused to give up Donyell Marshall and the #1 pick we used on Hinrich for the #4 pick which would have been Wade.

    "Afraid to make a mistake." Those are Reinsdorf's words.

    Funny how JWill turned out to be the huge mistake at #2. FWIW, Carlos Boozer was taken in the 2nd round by the Cavs that same draft.
     
  13. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    There were also rumors that the Bulls tried very hard to move up to #5 so they could draft Wade. Gotta be careful about putting credence in rumors.

    Do you have a context for your Reinsdorf quote?

    On JWill, I must have missed the humor. So, channeling my inner Joe Pesci, funny how?
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Funny as in Ironic. No matter how you look at it, he wasn't going to be a unicorn type player like Rose.

    The context for the Reinsdorf quote was the interview with him last summer (summer before this past one). He talked about not going for Gasol because we'd actually have to try to put good players around him. That the team is such a great printing press for money he'd leave it to his kids. And that when it comes to signing big contracts and trying to stay under the LT, you don't want to make a mistake.

    There's an old thread in this forum if you care to look for it.

    The irony, in case you don't understand it is that they were afraid to make mistakes yet made the biggest of all with JWill. And Chander. And Curry (#2 or #4 pick).
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Maybe a little more than a rumor.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...eneral-manager-john-paxson-bulls-miami-sports

    Paxson allowed Wade to escape

    With the draft selections of Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon and Luol Deng, general manager John Paxson, by most accounts, has proved himself to be a shrewd talent evaluator.

    Giving his instincts even more legitimacy is the one who got away--Miami's Dwyane Wade.

    Paxson nearly pulled the trigger on a June 2003 draft-day trade with Toronto that would have enabled the Bulls to move from the seventh to the fourth pick. Wade was Paxson's target.

    Most people predicted that Wade, a 6-foot-4-inch guard from Richards High School and Marquette University, would be a solid pro. But few predicted the elite status Wade already has reached.

    Paxson ended up drafting Hinrich, a solid acquisition. But whenever the Bulls face Miami, as they will Saturday, it's hard not to envision Wade, who is averaging 23.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 7.4 assists per game, playing for his hometown team.

    Paxson didn't want to part with Donyell Marshall at the time, killing the deal.
     
  16. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree.

    I hope whatever idiot or idiots in the Bulls org that are publicly trying to pressure Rose stop immediately and contritely apologize to their only hope of doing something of note.

    These dopes should focus on getting studs for Rose to play alongside and stop playing games in the press.

    Rose is everything. A happy, productive Rose is worth far more to winning NBA basketball games than every suit they have soaking up a salary at the Berto Center.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  17. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    Youch!
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Organizations win championships.

    (where are these championships?)
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    To be fair, Yell was a bargain at his salary and a valuable contributor to the team as constituted.

    On the other hand, every minute he played was a minute not played by Curry or Chandler.
     
  20. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    I was pretty shocked by this morning was driving my kids to school and hearing a whole segment on Mike and Mike, broadcast nationally, with Greenberg, Marc Stein, Tim Legler and Mike Wilbon all discussing this, and all pretty clearly coming down on the side of 1) The Bulls need to keep reports of his progress in house 2) The Bulls fans (those who are doing it) who are questioning Rose because of what Reggie Rose said are basically being crazy. They were critical of Reggie Rose, and rightly so, because his outburst cast the question about whether Rose would be a healthy scratch hold out.

    But nobody actually believes that. And really, I think it should be beyond any belief.

    1. He's with the team, on the bench, practicing and working out? Does anyone think Derrick Rose is some kind of master liar who's pulling a fast one on guys like Thibs or Noah? Saying he's not ready, and sitting there looking sad while we get trounced by the Lakers? Now that defies belief. I see nothing at all to indicate they have any displeasure with him, or that he's very happy with things right now.

    2. Rose has offered on several occasions, most recently yesterday, that he's still got significant physical discomfort and inability vs. where he feels he needs to be. Folks are overlooking that. In short, he's not ready. The fact that the doctors have said he's not at risk to re-injure his ACL (which is what I think they precisely said) doesn't mean he's good to go. Putting it out there, as was done, just gave a false impression that he was closer than he was.
     

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