ROY comments on our offense - is there a problem here?

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

I would just like to see the lineup, as intended, play together for about 30 games to see what happens. We haven't got to see it once yet.

 

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

Great post. Repped

 

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

The obvious question, to me, is whether this indicates that a certain style of play from Roy causes wins, or simply breaks down to "When Roy [the team's best player] plays well, the team tends to win more." The first could be an insight, the second would simply be a rather obvious causation.

The problem is that we have no other data points of Roy in other styles of play to work from. If we had an alternate universe season where Roy played in a faster tempo system, then that would be something to compare to. Roy didn't play in different systems over the course of last year...what the data amounts to is that when Roy played efficiently in McMillan's conservative system, the team won. When Roy played less efficiently in McMillan's conservative system, the team lost.

That doesn't really tell us what style of play leads to the most wins. It simply tells us that the team is better when the team's best player makes fewer mistakes. Probably true for every team.

More specifically, it doesn't bear on the debate over whether Roy should play off the ball more. That could generate more easy shots and therefore a higher shooting percentage for Roy, less turnovers and perhaps more wins.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

The stats say Roy got easier shots in 2008-09 than he did in 2009-10, at least in terms of offensive efficiency. The team also won 4 more games that season. If the idea is to get Roy easier shots, then from a historical perspective, we need more of the 2008-09 Brandon Roy edition, and less of v.2009-10.

 

I don't know. A lot of the players he had in Seattle for big men were pretty much blue collar paint players. I am trying to remember who played for him as bigs in Seattle. I know Nick Collison was there. And if I remember right wasn't it Danny Fortson(not in the league much longer than that). I am trying to remember the name of the center who was there who signed with the Knicks for big $$ but ended up being a pile of shit after he moved over. But that might have been nothing to do with Nate. The Knicks were already on a death spiral.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Someone craving a little attention today?

Alright, say Brandon Roy went down with a season ending injury(knock on wood)? Would that make our team better? If we trade him for a trade exception, would that make the Blazers better?

I think some of you fail to realize that Roy is a top 3 player at his position.

I remember when Shaq left LA and Kobe struggled with the Lakers, the same concerns were being brought up about him then. They acquire Bynum and Pau and everything is peaches and cream.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

late 80's/early 90's Pistons had one star, Isaiah Thomas.

 

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

Also, you need to split regular season success from post season success.

Teams don't really have time to make up game plans for specific teams in the regular season.
Come playoff time they get a chance to formulate specific plans to counter what the other team does.

It seems as though what produces a great deal of success for Portland in the regular is very easy to shut down when given enough time to plan.
Unfortunately, we have to wait through an entire season to only see a handful of games which may or may not prove this to be true.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Yeah, I realized that I forgot to add, at his position. Argueably top 2. I think when Roy's on his game, like when he was healthy for December and January of last year he was just as good as Wade.

 

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

At the same time, do you really expect Roy to shoot a much higher of a clip than he has been? A shooting guard who is the primary focus of the defense getting 50% is phenomenal. Can you expect better? I don't think so.

The second thing I don't agree with is the running. I don't think coaches have one bit of an effect on players when they run or don't run. The running and transition game in the NBA is a game of feel. There is no looking over to the coach and saying "Hey do we run here" when a turnover is created. The players have to have the ability to function in the open court. A team needs to be no better at running than to take advantage of an opponents mistakes when they happen. Pushing the pace for the sake of pushing the pace is bullshit and has never won an NBA championship in the last 20 years. Every team that has won a championship has top notch defense/rebounding and ball control.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

In neither season did he have a true off-the-ball game, which is the point. Comparing the two seasons is therefore pretty irrelevant. Yes, I'd prefer the 2008-09 Roy over the 2009-10 Roy. But I think the 2008-09 Roy with a nice off-the-ball game might be better yet.

Also, as far as stats go, his scoring efficiency (as measured by TS% which basically boils down to points per shot attempt) was nearly identical between the two seasons: .573 vs. .568. That's an insignificant difference.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

I'm not saying we do, other than from looking at statistics and trying to derive future results from them. As I posted, I'd err on the side of too much Roy, and then scale him back if it doesn't work, over too little Roy (without giving Roy the chance to succeed or fail first).

There are no definitive answers; there are only philosophical differences in how to get the most success from your best player, and by extension, your team.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Well, to be fair, that's your point. My point is that I don't want him to be an off-the-ball player until he proves he can't be a great on-the-ball player. Also, his PER was significantly higher in 2008-09, as were his OWS and Ortg. I don't consider those variances "irrelevant", thanks.

 

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

Kobe and Wade averaged more attempts than Roy did when they won championships.

Roy having the ball is good for us. He is a "Natural" scorer and needs to match up to the superstar SG tier.

 

Re: Why Roy likes a slow game where he controls the ball... and why we should too.

Having him play off the ball prevents him from being the primary focus of the defense as much. You cannot, as a defense, rationally double-team a player who doesn't have the ball...it would pretty much destroy your ability to stop the other 4 players and the ball.

This is why Kobe Bryant gets so many off-the-ball opportunities...it's easier for the defense to collapse on him when he starts on the wing and takes it all the way to the basket himself. When he pops open on a screen for a catch-and-shoot or flashes open at the hoop from a backdoor cut, the defense doesn't have time to run another guy at him.

I'm not advocating a running-oriented team. I'd like to see them get a transition bucket when the opportunity is there, but I'm perfectly content with the Blazers being halfcourt-oriented.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

He's already proven that. Why not have him expand into also having off-the-ball game?

I didn't say they were. I thought you were talking about scoring efficiency, which would bear on "easy shots."

As for his season in 2008-09 (which was legitimately much better overall), there's currently no way to know what led to that much better season. He dealt with more injuries in 2009-10, he dealt with more teammate injuries, dealt with more player turnover (Blake, Outlaw out, Miller, Camby, Cunningham in) and he may simply have had a career season in 2008-09. Until he plays more seasons, there's no way to know. Personally, I think he played in pretty much the same way in 2009-10, so I wouldn't personally chalk up the difference in seasons to a playing style.

 

Re: Fuck Brandon Roy

Bingo. The Bulls experimented with Jordan as PG when Doug Collins was coach. He averaged a triple double. But it didn't work. Similarly, it was only when Larry Brown moved Iverson off the ball that they got to the finals and he had his MVP year.