Zombie Rush the Stimulus Package...don't read it, just pass it!

Conquered only with charm. And socialism.

 

This country is on its feet. This idea of a soup line America is a complete fiction. For the last part of the Clinton Administration and for most of the Bush Administration, our unemployment rate was below the natural rate. Inflation was low, yet real estate went on one of the biggest booms in this nation's history. We're there pockets of people left behind? Certainly, but that always happens.

This country's economy has taken blow after blow and kept on trucking along. This will be a likely be a deeper recession than the average one, but we'll get through it. Business cycles happen. This recession is a hangover from the government interferring in the private sector.

If you want to stimulate the economy, create a capital gains tax holiday, lower the corporate tax rate and lower income taxes. In other words, get the government the hell out of the way.

 

Getting something for nothing will always sound good to the masses.

 

Getting something for nothing will always sound good to anyone. Corporations enjoy socialism as much as anyone, as evidenced by the bailouts.

We're always going to be a mix of capitalism and socialism. The question is which when and how much? But most people, in this country and all other democracies, believe that government has a role to play in managing the economy and in providing opportunities to those who need them.

 

I don't know of many smart economists that do that.

But the end result is very much accurate. If you go out and blow a wad on a trip to the mall, you get... something. A shitty movie with your girlfriend, a slushy, a couple CDs, a new t-shirt.

Obama and the government are doing all that work for you (if spending someone else's money can be considered work), but unlike that trip to the mall, you don't even get that t-shirt.

We'd probably be a bit better off going to the mall. Or having the government print up shirts. I propose this one:

 

I'm sure you'll get an armband or something, if that's the issue. Socialists love to accessorize.

 

A smart-alec answer still doesn't disprove his point.

 

What point? I was obviously making a joke about Obama shopping for all of us and MikeDC argued my joke. Rather than say, "I was joking, lighten up, my laissez faire brother," I made another joke.

If you mean that I've not yet disproved that Obama is a communist, I guess you're right.

 

The Healthcare industry is the last place that I want to get Government out of. It's a complete crime what's going on. When insurance would rather pay for your assisted suicide rather then drugs to ease your pain, I find something inherently wrong with them.

Also, what went on with the deregulation of the oil futures was ridiculous, and with the housing market, loans, etc. You NEED to have big brother step in once in a while and get these god damned corporations to stop taking advantage of the American people, through their subterfuge, and fraud.

Now I'm not one for BIG Government, but I also don't like having this hands-off attitude that allows the richest corporates that are above the law to take advantage of everyone, effectively running this place into the ground.

Lower taxes = yes.
Lower corporate tax rate? = yes, but only if they keep jobs in this country.

 

I don't know that I was arguing so much as using it as a point of departure for a joke of my own. At this point, it's pretty much all (black) comedy



Which sort of fits into the joking and communist accessorizing motif. With the government doing our shopping we'll soon be back to the future with the latest in mid-70s Czechoslovakian fashion.

 

Clearly, you've never experienced socialized health care. They're pretty decent at preventative medicine, but you had better hope you never require intensive healthcare where a number of specialists are needed. And if someone wants to take their own life because the pain from their terminal disease is too great to bear, I think that's one of the freedoms Americans should enjoy.

First, I don't hear much about the rapacious behavior of oil speculators now that the price of a barrel of oil is a third of what it was. Second, lots of individuals made money off of real estate in the past decade. Furthermore, many of those people should never have qualified for loans in the first place. Third, when all else fails, caveat emptor.

The problem wasn't that the Government was hands-off, it was hands-on where it had no business being. The Congress forced banks to make loans to people who shouldn't have gotten them. The Government allowed FNMA and FHLMC get into businesses that had little to do with their charter. And when banks did overreach, the Government didn't let them fail--as the market would have had them do--they bailed them out. While on the surface it's a humane move, it interferes with the operation of the free market and leads to further problems.

The problem with Government is that there's a ratcheting effect with any new program--it can grow, but it never shrinks. It never disappears when the need goes away.

Lower taxes = yes.
Lower corporate tax rate? = yes, but only if they keep jobs in this country.[/QUOTE]

 

The more I hear about this stimulus package, the more I don't like it.

 

I have friends that live outside the US that experience socialized health care and let's just say they don't have near the problems we have.

And you missed my point above in that quote. The point was, the insurance company would not pay for medication for a person to ease the pain of their terminal condition for 4 months, but they would pay for suicide medication right away. They would have rather had the person die, then ease their pain for 4-6 months.

That's so unAmerican it's painful, and to advocate that type of business w/o regulation should be criminal.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

 

That's because it's not a stimulus package, it's a payoff to all the groups that helped the Democrats sweep into power. Meh, that's the way things go. I'm offended by it because many of the people voting for this bill have children and grandchildren. I would find it difficult to look at my son and tell him that I need something he's going to have to pay for.

 

That's because they (the government) found out who was taking advantage and to my knowledge dealt with it.

Not to mention, the speculators helped kill the economy so much that people stopped driving, stopped buying cars/trucks/suv's, stopped buying as much gas, etc.

Thanks to them, they contributed to the mess we are in.

Regulation needs to be put in place to never allow that fraud to happen again.

 

I hate to say it, but I agree with you, maxiep. There is a first time for everything.

 

How do you know the stimulus package isn't going to fix our countries woes? And what about Bushes stimulus package? a farewell payoff to his buddies that got him in?

I mean, it's all politics, but if it gets us out of the recession, then I'm all for it.

 

I'm not against stimulus packages at all. I just don't like where such a significant portion of the money is going to end up, and that such a small portion will go to the people that I think Obama intends to help with it. Same goes for the Bush package.

 

So, you're saying the Evil Bush Administration (henceforth known as the EBA) beholden to Big Oil stepped in and stopped them from making money? That's an interesting and brave position to hold.

And now the price is down to $1.65/gal. Ain't the free market great?

The American people have no one to blame but ourselves. We overleveraged ourselves and now we have to pay up.

Again, what fraud? If you want to look for fraud, look at the loans Congress forced the banks to make. Those loans should never have been made. The increase in oil prices were clear for everyone to see. Increased demand from China and India, a terrorism risk premium, instability in the Middle East, etc. etc. Cheap gas isn't a Constitutional right.

 

What in this bill looks like an economic stimulus to you?