<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Now that you mention the hair loss disease, I feel like such an ignorant heel. But after seeing some kids go around shaving their eyebrows on purpose, I figured it was for style. That and the light jokes I read in scouting reports about "needing eyebrows and a defensive game" was a knock on V's sense of fashion. I feel bad though for being so insensitive and jumping to conclusions. </div> I didn't mean to make you feel bad custodian, I was trying to make a joke of it. I'm sure it doesn't bother him much at all. Now it'd be a different story if it were a girl (I've known two girls that have had it, one didn't care but the other one took it pretty hard). As for the guys like Williams, Diogu, and other collegiate big men, do you guys honestly see any of them being potential all stars down the road? I don't. And if you had to choose between Biedrins and any collegiate big man not named Bogut, which would you take? Personally, I'd take Biedrins every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Of course you could have both, but my point is that if Biedrins is the better long-term prospect, and you eventually want to have a three man power rotation, why draft another big man that's going to mess up the rotation? If you think the Warriors need another big man right now, they'd be better off signing a vet to either the vet minimum or mid level exception. Don't waste a pick just because you think Biedrins is still a year or two away and you want someone to hold down the fort for that year or two. It just doesn't make sense to me. As for Gerald Green, according to Chad Ford he's a late lottery pick right now. Of course it's still very early in the draft process, but all I keep hearing is how weak this year's high school class is compared to the last couple of years. I think this is the year the collegiate player starts to dominate the lottery again.
I have seen 20 years of the W's groping,reaching,wheeling and dealing in hopes of getting the elusive franchise center and the idea of picking a guy I never saw play,who has no stats that give any positive clues,who are getting hyped up enough to not be high risk bargains,just high risk----it's that scary kind of deja vu again. Russell Cross,Chris Washburn,Todd Fuller-even Ralph Sampson were costly attempts to get an impact big guy. I feel a guy like Bogut or Frye,Sheldon Williams,Diogu,is a fairly safe pick,they have,as-is skills enough to play,and play rather well,and if Martynas Andri-whatever,or Petro,or Vasquez can improve on uninspiring Euro-ball stats,become a decent,maybe even good NBA player,why can't these guys I mention? If you watch S Williams,Diogu,or several other college players I really advocate,you see a solid effort in all areas,a passion for the game and the work ethic to continue to improve. I think Sheldon will return to Duke,they have a great freshman class and would be a top 5 team with him. However,IF he entered,he is pretty certain to be a VERY good rebounder/defender,a solid inside scorer-and a guy apt to be there when we pick. Diogu scored around 23 per game. He MADE 240 Free Throws-which is huge. The W's have not had guys who draw fouls,which is related to not posing enough offensive threat inside---Ike drew a lot of fouls,witout searching out the stats,I am thinking he took more FT's than any other player in the NCAA. Meanwhile all his numbers shine. As to Green,I saw Marvin Williams,and Rudy Gay play. I saw Green just in the McDonalds. As far as offense,Green has more stuff right now. He outjumps most humans,has range,great hands,very creative,surprising polish,court awareness. As to D,none of the 3 showed me a lot,but in Green's case-it's a high school AllStar game,not a Big East or ACC playoff game. If my job rode on picking a guy with the 3rd pick in this draft-I'd be cool with taking Green,but not Rudy,Marvin or any of the unseen Euros. If I was in that position,I'd fly abroad and watch the Euro prospects-and,no doubt the W's will do that,but meanwhile,I have no basis for saying ANY of the imports is a good top 10 pick. Look at the W's foreign Legion,Pietrus looks lottery grade now and as he works on the details,should look like a good pick. Zarko is playing like a guy who deserved to be round 1. Andy B is still unpolished,but I see good signs,and next year we will see if he's on track to being what we hoped for on draft day,I'm optimistic,but it ain't money in the bank,folks. Shika was picked earlier than M Pete or Biedrens and after several years,has yet to show he's got NBA stuff,even enough to be bench help. Shika,afew years ago was getting the big hype-can shoot the 3-athletic-about 7 ft. etc-much like the current crop-and it was a mistake. Whether the W's have 2 rd 2 picks-or not-I'm not sure. If our 2 is early enough,it's protected,and it looks good. The Suns still get a 2-do they get the 2 we get via the Cliffy deal? Do they get our 2 next year? do they get their option of either of those? Don't know. Ironically,in a draft where half the lottery picks may be really speculative,it seems there will be several real nice options in round 2. Round 2 I'm okay with going the high risk-project route,though if we could land a guy like Julius Hodge,I'd be happy. All the cap stuff will decide what we might be able to do in the free agent market. Cheaney+Shika will exit,plus there's a trade exemption. If we were to deal anyone in such a way as to not replace salary with salary,maybe there's enough to bring in someone. Can the front office create the space to bring in a guy who is a big plus? Will we need to just think depth or role player? It's a bit early,and the info is incomplete-which is why I focus more on the draft area. CBS Sportsline has stats on college players. Check it out. Can Diogu be a star? Sure,why not,his stats match well to Elton Brand,to Charles Barkley,he can shine,he can be a rookie of the year,and later an ALL Star.
If the W's were drafting purely on potential, I'd grab Nemanja Aleksandrov. He's tall, fast, can run the floor, and has pretty good instincts. But, he's too soft for the NBA as is, needs to work on his shot, and could end like a taller Dunleavy (or worse, a Skita?) because he'll be stuck at the SF spot. There is always the option of packaging the pick to another team for a veteran guy. Big men do tend to get better as they get older, with the exception of injuries of course. It's just experience in learning how to defend the post, and the time that it takes to get a proper diet and bulk up can be very long.
I think Splitter has the most potential. He's already hyped up to be the 5th best prospect internationally, supposedly sporting the game of Pau Gasol's offense with Jeff Foster like defense with better shotblocking. Plus I like what comes out of Brazil. Usually their nation's top prospects have solid defensive games and some flashy offense in addition to being athletic as heck (Barbosa, Varejao, Nene).
Custodian did come up with something of note,Sun Ming Ming. As it looks,he'd be a cheap project who might become significant. All Pavel P had going was height,this kid is taller,has bulk,but not too much to work with-and if it just takes a late rd 2 to try and build him into a player,cool. One skeptic noted he'd get gassed running the floor,injuies might become an issue some day. Well,we won't expect a full time role,or need it. Give a few short stints,but make an impact. Mark Eaton,ex-Jazz,had little skill or grace but he was an asset. He learned to use what he had. These are exciting times for us Warrior fans. We have enough to play teams like the Suns,Mavs,Kings<Sonics-and win...plus we have the draft in a crazy year where we COULD get major bargains-or a real dud. My mind is blown when I see Salim Stoudamire listed borderline round 1. It ain't like Arizona never got on TV. Salim hit 53% on 3's--while shooting a LOT of 3's. Many of the NBA's "pure shooters" hit about 40% in college. Most years the only guys around 50% are small school unknowns who only attempted a few per game. Salim is also real quick. He will lose you-and launch like, boom---3. Salim also can dribble and pass,understands the game,and played for Olsen who coached quite a few NBA point G's,including Arenas and Jason Terry who converted from shooting G. Bargains? Larry Roberts is a rugged 6-9 PF,scored near 20,about 10 boards per-and seems to be getting mocked as mid round 2. WTF? Ike Diogu and Danny Granger showed me the kind of multi-skill game I don't see enough. Granger could play 4 positions if needed,is both a tough rebounder and an accurate shooter anywhere-and his D is real good. Diogu makes me think of Barkley,a ball of energy,able to beat you in many ways. Barkley didn't fit the profile....he just did the job at a Hall of Fame level. Diogu SHOULD be a top 3 pick,will be a very good pro-maybe even more. He MIGHT be drafted fairly late,but eventually will be one of the best of this crop.
<font face="Arial"><font size="2">I'm pretty much down with the players you're suggesting REREM. I like solid players that can do a lot of things decently and do one or two things very well with respect to other players of their type/position. Although I think </font></font><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial"><font size="2">Andriuskevicius will be good one day, he's obviously not going to be ready for a while. He's shown some flashes of being a "euro-shaq", but generally he seems like the kind of guy that avoids contact because he isn't that strong yet and is more of a finesse player than a power player. Having all that extra length, good mobility for that size, and being able to see over everybody is a great advantage, though. That's why scouts have him picked high, although he's probably way less ready than Biedrins was going into the draft and Biedrins played with contact against older more physically developed players. Players like the young guys off our bench are just fearless. I love it. Zarko is fearless, Pietrus is fearless, Biedrins is fearless. Granger looks fearless as well, and same with Ike Diogu who can just get fouled like crazy and get to the line. The thing that gets me about either player is will they go beyond just being projected as role players? They stood out in college, but they don't have a huge athletic upside to their game nor the size to be successful. It seems for every 6'8 down low bruiser that doesn't wind up as Elton Brand, there's the Zach Randolphs that can't or don't play much defense or the Marcus Fizers that struggle to adjust to the small forward postion and they are simply outmatched at PF and can't play it full time. Also take a look at some other 6'8 successful power forwards. Have they made their team better? I think that's why these guys get ranked lower than they have shown. Teams fear they won't reach the next level based on their physical tools. Another reason why basketball has lost its appeal to some because the physical requirements to be drafted high are getting ridiculous because of the taller, faster, stronger competition that's out there in the NBA. </font></font></font></font><font size="4"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></font></font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post"><font face="Arial"><font size="2">I'm pretty much down with the players you're suggesting REREM. I like solid players that can do a lot of things decently and do one or two things very well with respect to other players of their type/position. Although I think </font></font><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font face="Arial"><font size="2">Andriuskevicius will be good one day, he's obviously not going to be ready for a while. He's shown some flashes of being a "euro-shaq", but generally he seems like the kind of guy that avoids contact because he isn't that strong yet and is more of a finesse player than a power player. Having all that extra length, good mobility for that size, and being able to see over everybody is a great advantage, though. That's why scouts have him picked high, although he's probably way less ready than Biedrins was going into the draft and Biedrins played with contact against older more physically developed players. Players like the young guys off our bench are just fearless. I love it. Zarko is fearless, Pietrus is fearless, Biedrins is fearless. Granger looks fearless as well, and same with Ike Diogu who can just get fouled like crazy and get to the line. The thing that gets me about either player is will they go beyond just being projected as role players? They stood out in college, but they don't have a huge athletic upside to their game nor the size to be successful. It seems for every 6'8 down low bruiser that doesn't wind up as Elton Brand, there's the Zach Randolphs that can't or don't play much defense or the Marcus Fizers that struggle to adjust to the small forward postion and they are simply outmatched at PF and can't play it full time. Also take a look at some other 6'8 successful power forwards. Have they made their team better? I think that's why these guys get ranked lower than they have shown. Teams fear they won't reach the next level based on their physical tools. Another reason why basketball has lost its appeal to some because the physical requirements to be drafted high are getting ridiculous because of the taller, faster, stronger competition that's out there in the NBA. </font></font></font></font><font size="4"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></font></font></div> Rodman was 6-8,so is K-Mart. Reggie Evans and Udonis Haslem were ignored in the draft as only 6-8 and are already important to top contenders. Barkley was not even a legit 6-6,but was a power player all the way to the Hall. It's not the size of the dog in the fight,its the size of the fight in the dog. Diogu is no marshmallow,he's been a big rebounder,a full tilt defender and so aggressive he got to the FT line more than anyone in Pac-10 history. Ike,by sheer willpower almost led his ASU team to a big upset over a great Arizona team. He made them better,but there just was not enough talent on ASU's roster to take it in OT. That a real crappy foul call gave Ike 4 fouls early in the 4th was major. They had to ask Ike to take no risks on D,as he was the guy AU could not contain. Ike seems to have lost 10lb since last year,and much improved his stroke from outside,so he can kill you with quickness or strength,inside and outside-and he's a guy who will remake his game if that's what it takes,who can,and will do whatever it takes. Remarkably,he brought that to a team that otherwise had nobody,and so had little hope of winning often in the Pac 10. Over many years of watching this game,and having special interest in the draft,I can say that a player who rebounds well in college,will rebound well as a pro. Conversely, there are guys who looked like pure power-yet in college,just grabbed 6-7 boards per game-and seldom do they emerge as big rebound guys in the NBA. It's a bit like a RB in football,the guy with the perfect size/speed may not be the best,they need to have technique and an attitude that they are going to the endzone no matter what and nobody has any RIGHT to get in the way. A rebounder needs a similar mindset-whatever it takes-that friggin' ball is mine. Why did S May always out board M Williams,who seems the prfect athlete? Its that relentless focus,determination. I also have observed that the guy who busts his ass for rebounds is apt to carry that drive and desire over,to work on his game,train hard,play hard the whole game,while the guy who is mainly tall,naturally quick,with a shooter's touch often got too used to success and glory without needing to take the elbows,to get mean,fight for position or hustle on D. Diogu brings that overachiever package,but he is also a very gifted athlete who even while having an All America season,kept adding stuff to his toolbox. As I mentioned before,Sheldon Williams also has that bulldog thing going,as does Sean May,but May gave a lot of indication he's staying in school and I figure Sheldon is apt to stay at Duke too. Relatively,Ike can play either F,his quickness and range are a plus. Sheldon is kind of a Bill Russell sort,will be a for sure asset as a rebounder/defender. On offense he is efficient and smart but not a shooter beyond midrange or a slash and drive guy. Like Moses Malone,Sheldon will use power and timing to score inside,knows that 20 ft J's are not his best skill. Duke guys don't generally have dazzeling stats,but sheldon did,at least in the rebound+shotblock areas where his numbers were significantly better than E Brand had. Granger is kind of like a guy,Bill Hewitt who long ago was our star when I was in JC. Hewitt was a 6-6 leaper-dunker with a fadeaway he sh ot from almost behind his head-not great accuracy but not defendable with his vertical. Hewitt jumped C,but also was a sort of point F,just the teams best at every skill. He was named Cal JC player-of-the year,went on to play at USC,The Lakers. Danny Granger is like that for N Mex,the best guy at every basketball skill on their team,a guy who played so many roles you could hardly say he had a position,but I don't want to say Granger is limited to being Mr Versatile,he showed me he's just a guy who is such a total player he can give whatever is needed,and he can also outfox most guys he can't take with pure physical talent. I see those 3 guys as all legit top 5 talent Any of them could be a star,none will be a flop. Ideally we'd find a K Garnett,a Diogu stretched out to 7-0,but it isn't happening. Instead we can get a bargain at our slot,maybe pull off a swap and grab another steal around the middle of rd 1.
I maybe should have emphasized that Sheldon IS a down-low bruiser,though 6-9 with a wingspan,muscle and enough athletic stuff that Marvin Williams found it unwise to challenge him inside. Diogu and Granger ARE athletic,in a well rounded way,as opposed to some skinny guy with speed,hops and zero power. I think Diogu is the most NBA ready guy in the draft,in terms of stepping in and doing well. Look at the stats-where is he weak? If you see him play,he's a standout.
REREM is very detailed and gives a lot of examples to cite his points. It's very good quality. I admire it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">REREM is very detailed and gives a lot of examples to cite his points. It's very good quality. I admire it.</div> He's the wise guy of this whole place. I always enjoy reading posts like his and pretty much everyone in the Warriors forum
I think Zhone, Wtwalker, Kwan, clif, and others put in some pretty darn good reads as well. And it's because the ideas are organized and you can relate to where they are coming from when they make an argument or when they share a new idea/philosophy. That's definitely important when you're trying to communicate to an audience and some might think "huh?" where did that come from? Also I would say they and others are very fair, when people just got to vent and just get frustrated with seeing their favorite team take steps back from the previous years of improvement. I'm so glad the pain is over from earlier in the season and there's just so many positive things to talk about like the draft and people that would like to play as Warriors now that they are showing signs of being the hot new team in California. No more of the worst basketball we've seen since the 2000-2001 Warriors. Well actually this year, we at least kept games close despite losing. We weren't horribly blown out like years past.
I'm hoping that Rerem will get some love soon, but for all the goodness in the world, a few paragraph breaks wouldn't hurt! As for some of the other things we've been discussing: I do like Green. Athletic, tall swingmen always have a spot in the NBA. Only one guy that I can recall has ever failed to make some kind of impact in the NBA - Olivier St. Jean (now Tariq Abdul-Wahad). His failure actually made me wary of drafting Pietrus, as both are athletic, defensive minded small forwards who had a lot to learn. And, both are from France, although Tariq bummed around as a reserve at Mich. St until landing at SJSU, while Pietrus tested his mettle professionally. Tariq simply did not have a high enough basketball IQ to be effective. I think Pietrus has shown enough that he won't fall into that trap - although a lot of his development might hinge on Davis' ability to lead. I also do like Diogu, but not enough to take him at a high pick. Although the comparisons to Elton Brand are there - Brand was about the same size, height, played the same forward/center position, had the same great hands and dominance in the paint - they're not matched up exactly. Diogu also reminds me of a Malik Rose-type - hardworking, strong, quiet and a great person, but lacking height and athleticism. Likely, he'll fall inbetween those two guys, because Brand's combination of athleticism, strength, and long wingspan (allowing him to cheat a bit) is rare. Diogu has shown a better offensive game and similar defensive game in comparison with Brand in college but his pure physical tools (primarily that athleticism and wingspan) just aren't the same, at least from what I've seen. We'll see more at the pre-draft camps, though.
Dwayne Jones,St Joe's 6-11 C,declared. Real solid boards and D,not much offense. Did not hire an agent and,so far,it's a bit hazy where he'd be picked. I'd say late rd 1-early rd 2. Would he stay in if it seems he second round? Would he last to our round 2? Given that the bigs in this draft tend to be question marks,or power forwards,a C that at least has solid credentials as a rebounder - defender could be a nice pick at the right spot. My puter gets mostly used for music and graphics projects,I wasn't doing much email,or lengthy forum posts so the paragraph break thing is actually a trick I learned recently. As bad as I type it probably looks like I can't spell either. The little window I got to write in is something else I'm adjusting to. Often I'm surprised I wrote so much.
Hey Rerem, if you reply by using "post quick reply", you can instead click "Go Advanced" to get a bigger window. I've never heard of Dwayne Jones. What's his game like and how is he in terms of matching up with other players in his position?
Jones looks a bit bulkier than Channing Frye,though both are around 245 now,I only saw him briefly,but he seemed to move well. I didn't get to see him do much scoring but he's got a rebounder mindset. I use CBS Sportsline's site to access stats,if you go to rebound leaders,his name is there- click his name and you get a detailed breakdown in terms of stats,with even stats for all games this year. If he turns into an A Foyle/K Cato type,mainly D,boards and never emerges on offense-but only costs a round 2,that could be pretty good. A bit of extra C depth lets all the centers play more aggressively
