I watched Dwight play. He was certainly way more explosive then Greg (to be expected), but his skill in the post was (and still largely is) limited to dunks and putbacks. The biggest thing Dwight did to separate himself from Oden was avoiding foul trouble, a skill Greg has not mastered.
I hear ya. I don't need Greg to be dropping hook shots regularly to make me happy. I just want him to rebound, not get pushed around, intimidate, and hold onto the fucking ball. And not commit stupid fouls. I mean, it's not all about stats either. Batum's stats aren't impressive at all, but I'm wayyyy happier with how Batum played this season than how Greg played.
This thread is funny to me, because of how kingspeed has felt about Outlaw during/after horrible games and mistakes. It's like you could replace "Oden" with "Outlaw" prior to the all-star break, and all of the criticisms would make sense. Irrationality is fun.
I really don't know. But I'm anxious to see what Greg looks like after having a normal off-season (where you work on technique and not your knee) and being two years removed from microfracture which is largely seen as the normal timeline for full recovery. He may never be quite up to Dwight's level, but I can easily see him being a 15/13/2.5 guy in a couple of years if he can stay healthy.
The argument might have teeth if there were lots of PGs who, in limited minutes, racked up similar or better numbers. But Sergio is all alone up there; you have to go all the way down to Brevin Knight to find a PG who plays so few minutes. Of the top 50 assists/48 players, only *5* of them played 20 minutes or less per game. So the evidence suggests the *opposite* from your argument -- that in fact, across the NBA, assists/48 go UP with more minutes, not the other way around. iWatas
It's no secret that Sergio can pass. It's just that his scoring and defense have been pretty lackluster (except recently). Once he can consistently hit a jumpshot and be a threat to drive to the rim like he has lately, he'll be a really good point guard IMO. Question is, can he keep it up?
Were you the same guy who said Jarrett Jack > Devin Harris? I find it uncharacteristic that the biggest Blazer homer on this board, bordering on lunacy, is so quick to dismiss a legitimate Oden excuse (rookie, injury, foul trouble). Travis Outlaw, your prized godsend is showing promise only now, in his 5th year in the league. If I recall correctly, you called Oden a "serious project"-- so why is it that you, the ultimate Blazer optimist who believes Oden a project, are less able to see the the positives that Oden brings to the table than the rest of us?
True. But, when comparing him to Howard, you seem to be thinking about the Howard of now and forgetting that the raw, rookie Dwight Howard often looked like the raw player that he was. Some nights during Howard's rookie campaign he looked bad. Why you conveniently ignore this fact in a forced effort to dis Oden, I can't fathom.
Greg Oden is a winner. Statistics are the easiest way to measure contribution, but the stats generally used are really bad at describing the impact Oden has on a game. We won 54 games this season. In Dwight's first season, the Magic won 36. It's no coincidence that we started dominating on the defensive end when he got healthy. We played a great stretch a few games after he came back from his foot injury, took a dip on the defensive end after we lost him to Corey Maggette's knee brace and then went back up again after he got in a bit of shape upon returning from his knee injury. And while much of that has to do with having to use Channing Frye, it also has to do with his impact in the interior. The Orlando Magic are run through Dwight Howard. Right now Greg Oden is our fourth or fifth offensive option when he's on the floor. And that's not to mention that we're seeing a slow, out of shape GO who still hasn't fully recovered from MF. Greg Oden is better than he's being credit for.
I wish I could agree, but I just don't see it. Oden has definitely made a contribution on the defensive end, but he's spent so little time on the court that I really don't see that as a major factor in our success. Not to mention all the free throws he gives the other team by his more-or-less constant fouling.
Go to 82games.com and look at Greg Oden's net contribution on/off per 100 possessions. The Blazers are up 2.4 pts more per 100 possessions when Greg is on the court than when he is not. He gives the Blazers a positive contribution - which is amazing when you consider that Greg is not a starter... Compare this Frye who is our backup center when Greg is out of the line-up - and you will see that we are -18 per 100 possessions... Having Greg Oden as our backup center is a huge addition. If we consider that he plays just under 1/2 a game - and the Blazers have 90 possessions per game - you can make a rough calculation and figure out the the Blazers are about 8-9 points more per game when Oden is our backup center than when Frye is. If 8 to 9 points (net) per game swing is not a big contribution - I do not know what is... Remember that last year's Blazers team was overall -1 PPG and won 41 games - telling you they over-achieved - probably because of Roy's clutch ability. The Blazers this year are +5.3 PPG in differential. It is not all on Oden - but I firmly believe that the Blazers having quality 45 minutes of center production per game for most of this year compared to only 23 mMPG last year is a big big contribution...
Some nights, DHo even looks bad nowadays. I remember a 4 pt 9 rebound game out of him earlier in the season. But DHo still averaged a double double his rookie year and shattered a ton of records. I don't dis Oden. I just get frustrated with him.
I see LOTS of positives: http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139264&highlight=On ODen http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139596&highlight=On ODen http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137808&highlight=doubt peril
i see a lot of idiots who have no clue. the guy hasn't had a full off-season to actually work on his game at the NBA level and he has contributed alot to this team in his limited time. the problem isn't greg, it is the expectations that were hoisted upon him when he entered the league. the league billed him as the next bill russell, even going so far as to sit him at a table with some of the all-time great centers, before he had even stepped onto an nba court. he is a work in progress on the offensive end, and this was known by many when he was drafted. in hs/college he got by with his size and athleticism and this isn't going to work all the time in the nba. big men, throughout the nba's history, have taken more time to develop than wing players and you are seeing that in greg. do i wish he wouldn't foul so much? sure but he'll figure it out and once again there will be people on here that look like giant idiots, but they'll tell you they've been behind greg the whole time.
Lovely! Then you'll understand the confusion I have with what exactly your stance is when I clicked the the very first link you provided me and found this post: This seems contradictory to the posts you've made on this thread.
