From what point of view? Left or Right? I'm assuming you mean from the Left. I'm not a Democrat. I've never been a Democrat. After W I switched to Independent from Republican. I voted for W both times. I didn't vote for Hillary. I'm not sure I'm qualified to speak for any party. In fact, I'm not. I can speak for me. I thought Palin was just a fucking idiot. Much like Trump. Yet I am beginning to UNDERSTAND their appeal to others. The straight talk. America First. Anti-establishment Etc.....I get it, hell I'd buy into it if it was from a candidate that doesn't scare the living shit out of me or that comes across borderline retarded.
Not doing it, being hypocritical about it. I saw you do it in the thread, didn't say shit until I read the othet thread.
We will have to agree to disagree on this. I've explained my positions, and I'll leave them there. In hindsight, I could have explained my position on this a bit better. That's on me, and I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that racism doesn't exist. I KNOW it does because, like you, I've seen it. Perhaps not on a wider scale than you have. Maybe. My position is that it doesn't happen as wide-spread and as much as the media makes it out to be. And I believe that the media is responsible for fanning the flames of racism unnecessarily in this country. 10 years ago, you didn't read a headline in the paper where they started by listing the person's race. Today, however, it's almost every article. And I cannot look at the MSM, nor mainstream publications, and think that they are unbiased when it comes to something like police shootings and racism. Does racism exist? Absolutely. Is it a systemic problem in every corner of our country? I think it's far more complicated than that. It's difficult for me to see so many successful black people in our society, including a black president, and think that systemic racism still exists on a wide scale. The levels of racism in Chicago, for example, may be far different than the levels of racism in Oklahoma City. I don't know. There's very little racism here in Vancouver. I don't know if I can say the same for West Portland. It doesn't mean that racism DOESN'T exist; it simply means that the problems in Portland are different than the problems in Vancouver. I can understand that, certainly. I was always under the impression that he inherited his father's company, but sure....I suppose a loan is close enough. In short, he made an effort to speak on my level (I explained this in further detail on pages 15 and 16 of this thread). He didn't pander to Hollywood....people who I can't relate to; who snub their noses at average Americans. He even did it on such a level that many blacks and Latinos voted for him. And women! He wasn't afraid to go out and meet people and listen to them. He held more forums and rallies than Clinton ever did and, even if you didn't agree with what he was saying, he still listened to many people who voiced their concerns about this country. He swears, I swear. He makes mistakes, I make mistakes. He doesn't take himself seriously all the time, and neither do I. It was more of an effort of how he presented himself to the American People than it was about anything else. He didn't show himself in lavish suits, or at high-end galas, or any of that crap. The most they showed of his wealth was when he was getting off and on his Boeing 757. Whereas Clinton spoke to the people through Hollywood. People who wake up wondering whether their Ferrari or Aston-Martin has to go into the shop, rather than if their boss is going to give them a hard time at their 12-hour job. And she didn't bother speaking to the people on our level. She just assumed that what worked for her followers in the Bay Area and New York could apply to the rest of the country. The people in New York and the Bay have as much in common with Vancouver Washington, or the people in a farming community in Nebraska....as Bill Gates does with poverty and homeless people. Not to mention that she wore a $12,000 Armani pantsuit to a forum about "Wealth Inequality". And that should tell you all you need to know. Is Trump perfect? God, I wish he was. I wish he'd get the fuck off of Twitter, for one thing. I wish he'd hold Russia responsible for spying and hacking.....just to name a few issues. For me, race was never an issue in this campaign, and I never understood why Liberals wanted it to be so. But...we cannot deny the problems that are occurring in Mexico right now. Yes, many Mexicans are good, honest people. BUT....they are controlled by corruption, Cartels, and an out-of-control Government. And we cannot deny the horrors and savagery that occurs on a regular basis in Mexico. About 3 days ago, I watched a video on the website DocumentingReality, where a cartel member was being tortured and beheaded by others. He had his face peeled off with a box cutter...completely off....both hands cut off with an axe, both feet cut off with an axe, and was being beheaded with a box cutter. While he was still alive. Dude.....that's a savagery that not even ISIS can lower themselves to. That's fucking psychotic on a level that only a psychopath can go to. Utter and complete lack of empathy. You wanna talk about systemic racism in this country......well, systemic violence happens on a daily basis, and on a far-wider scale in Mexico than any form of racism happens here. And NO, I'm NOT excusing racism. I'm giving a comparison to the seriousness of the two subjects, and why we need proper border security. I don't personally believe that the Cartels will come here en-mass if we had open borders, because they need a society that they can easily victimize. And it's not as easy to victimize America as it is Mexico. Nevertheless....the point Trump was trying to make is that violence and crime are beyond rampant in Mexico. People die in cities from Cartel violence by the dozens every week. There are places, major metropolitan places, in Mexico where more murders occur in one week, than Chicago gets in a month. Could he have chosen his words better. Sure. But the point he was making should be sobering to all of us. It had very little to do with racism, and more to do with addressing the clear threat of violence that many criminals in Mexico pose to the US. Those of us who don't get emotional over these types of things understood what he was trying to say. But I can understand why not everyone got it. "Rapists and murderers".....he should have chosen his words better, but his message was that "there's a lot of violence in Mexico that we don't want coming here." And he's right. Very right. I feel the same way you do about Democrats. Why haven't you addressed them? Neither side is perfect; you're not gonna hear me defend any kind of openly bullshit derogatory terms that Republicans use for others. They tried that shit when they labeled people as "unamerican" during Bush's years (and Bush was directly responsible for labeling people that). And many Republicans still try that shit today, and it drives me up a fucking wall. But...where's your outrage for Liberals labeling us? Deplorables? Bitter Clingers? Racists? Those are all labels that Liberals LOVE to throw around on people like me. Where's the outrage? Often times, when I ask Liberals "where's the outrage?", they tell me "well, don't be racist". Like that fucking solves anything. They're not even willing to discuss with me what someone says or what they interpret as racism. So what are we to do? By all means, if you have an answer, I'd love to hear it. Oh yes, I do. In the mainstream sense, I never once believed that he was a Muslim born in Kenya. Never. I thought that rhetoric was derisive and just plain wrong. And I can only imagine what some called him off camera. Well aware of it. Don't condone it at all. And yet...here you are, trying to convince me that Democrats are the party of equality and fairness. Sorry, I will NEVER agree to that. I cannot, in good faith, look at how they treat people like me, how they treat people who aren't connected to Hollywood/San Francisco/Portland/New York, and how they pander to my race and sexuality...and then think that they were the party of equality and fairness. Sorry. That's not gonna happen. If you want to continue to believe that the majority of Republicans are evil people, or that they are more "at fault" with what's going on with the divide in this country than Liberals or Democrats are, then that is fine, and I respect your opinion. I don't agree with it, obviously, but I respect it. Stop it. No Republican denies that racism exists. Hell, in the 12 years I've been a member of GlockTalk, a forum almost entirely of Republicans and Conservatives (with thousands of members), not ONCE have I EVER heard one member there say that "racism doesn't exist". Never. Not once. And arguing whether racism is systemic is NOT the same as denying racism exists. Saying that "Republicans deny racism exists" is a disconnect from reality that the MSM plays with and fires people up over. No Republican politician has ever denied racism. And brushing off claims of racism is not racist.
My response got a little cut off in the above post. Here's the final part of it: I got a little emotional with that claim, and I apologize (I'm glad you saw my apology). I think both of us are tired with the general politics in this country, and worn down by the media playing our heart strings over these issues. Christ...it is utterly exhausting. I don't think all Liberals and Democrats are assholes. That's just my emotion talking. Fuck, I used to BE a Liberal Democrat, and I was raised by two Bay Area hippie-parents, who were Dead Heads and part of the Flower Child movement. I'm just very disappointed at what's become of the Left since Obama came into office; just as I was very disappointed in the Right during Bush's presidency. You can't be a fucking PERSON anymore! You can't have your own beliefs! You can't even tell someone your opinions in the process of having a discussion, because you'll offend them. If it's one thing I think we can both agree on.....man, I don't envy Trump in 2 days time. He's got his hands very, very full. These next 4 years will be very interesting. And you can BET YOUR ASS that I am going to hold Trump accountable! I am NOT one of his blind hat-wearing followers. I DO think for myself, and I WILL hold him accountable. That's my promise to you and every other Liberal or Democrat on this forum
First off, I'm not trying to say republicans are bad or deny racism exists (I worded it wrong). More-so, they downplay the racism problem because the media over-covers it. Liberals tend to overblow the problem, but overexaggeration of the problem is better than downplaying it, IMO. I've heard many republicans say things like "it's not that bad" and "it's not a big deal", which is what I have a problem with, because theyre not experiencing it, and the blacks who do have told me that it is bad and it's a big deal for them. I don't hear liberals downplay it, and three problem has a chance of being fixed when it's overemphasized than what it's downplayed. You have a good point on how the media overcovering it, which leads to dems thinking its worse than it is, and Republicans thinking it's not as bad as it is, when it's somewhere in the middle. By systematic racism, I'm referring to incarceration rates, and racial trends in susceptibility to police violence. Not in terms of politics. I've said both sides do the same shit. In not saying ones worse than the other. You blamed Dems for protesting and for crime after this election when republicans have done it in the past. You point out things liberals say, I pointed out things Republicans do. Im saying both parties do messed up shit, it just seems like you're holding liberals more accountable than republicans. Crime and violence are a problem in Mexico. But the thing is, he said we're getting their WORST people. I think we're getting their best, which are the people trying to escape the violence and crime and make a better life for themselves. By the way, I think liberals just want progression, and a more united, equal country with less prejudice. At least that's how I am.
It has nothing to do with being sensitive. If you want to insult someone here you're free to do it via private message.
Bones, you can have this one. There are some things I disagree with you about in your post, but after a game loss, I just lose steam. Rooting for this team has become exhausting. Have a good night. I look forward to debating this with you another time.
