Should we Simonize?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by TBpup, Jan 10, 2022.

?

What to do with Ant?

  1. Sign him for what might be around $20,000,000 to start next to Dame

  2. Trade him for a larger wing who would fit better next to Dame

  3. Sign him for around $15,000,000 to be a Super-Sub

  4. Trade Dame/CJ and build around the 22 year old and all the pieces coming back

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    31,952
    Likes Received:
    40,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't want him as an SG next to Dame (for the same reasons I want CJ traded), and I don't want to "build around him" either. If he can be retained at a reasonable cost as a 6th man, that's great. Or if Dame is traded for another franchise player, I could see Simons as a starting PG supporting a star forward (who, I don't know).

    overall though, it seems the most likely/reasonable result is him being dealt. But I can't help but think that other teams and fans will see what Simons is doing now as a classic "good player on a bad team" situation.
     
    TBpup likes this.
  2. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    13,834
    Likes Received:
    13,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Master of Xen Foro
    Location:
    La Grande, OR
  3. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2019
    Messages:
    8,659
    Likes Received:
    6,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think the key to getting value for CJ is to include Ant in the deal.
     
    riverman likes this.
  4. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,901
    Likes Received:
    14,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If a team wants two guys with very similar strengths and weaknesses one of which is going to make 33M next season and the other they might have to match as high as 20M to keep, that would be surprising to me but hell a lot of things are surprising to me.
     
    UKRAINEFAN likes this.
  5. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2019
    Messages:
    8,659
    Likes Received:
    6,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well Simons is on the 11th player this season to score 43 points and all the rest have been All Stars. I’ll check his span of games as starter too.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  6. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2019
    Messages:
    8,659
    Likes Received:
    6,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s a good point.
     
    UKRAINEFAN likes this.
  7. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2019
    Messages:
    8,659
    Likes Received:
    6,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So I looked it up. NO ONE, bench or starter, has had Anfernee Simons’ numbers over a 5 game span this season. And get this- the last four people to do it (last season) were Damian Lillard, Damian Lillard, Damian Lillard, and Damian Lillard. No wonder he’s Top 75.
     
    UKRAINEFAN likes this.
  8. Hey

    Hey Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2010
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    43
    At this point, Simons may be more untouchable than Dame. You’ve got him on a really good contract, you’re in the driver’s seat for his next one, and he’s only 22. Dame’s prime will last maybe 2-3 more years and then his contract becomes an albatross.

    The ideal vision - trade CJ, start Dame, Norm, and Little. Keep Simons off the bench so that maybe other teams don’t attempt to max him as an RFA. At that point, trade or bench Norm.

    At this point, resting Dame for the year may actually hurt us, because the whole NBA will see Simons’ true value just as his contract is up for renewal.
     
    PHXBlazer1 likes this.
  9. BankTeller

    BankTeller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2021
    Messages:
    2,540
    Likes Received:
    2,381
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think that’s a lot to ask for. For 1) when you do that, you’re messing with a man’s money. It’s different if it’s deserved, but Ant has shown thus far what he do. Let him dictate his value, not us. You don’t ruin a man’s ability to earn what he deserves for his family. Guys do this for a living, can’t expect them to go out and lose.
    For 2) how do we know Simons can’t become a centerpiece of a Simmons deal? If he shows for an entire season he can put up these stats, why wouldn’t a sign-and-trade be possible? He’s perfect for what they need if he shows he’s a 5-7 apg guy while he’s starting. Whatever pick compensation we send them is going to a team that takes Tobias anyway.

    If he keeps playing well, bench Norm, start Ant at PG and CJ at SG. If Ant shows signs of inconsistency again, bench him and play CJ at PG Norm at SG. Or if you want to clear that logjam, trade Norm because he’s shown he’s not a long term fit anyway. If Ant develops into the centerpiece of a Ben trade, great, you still have CJ to deal for assets as well and that’ll clear up plenty of cap space for a team centered around Dame Ben Little. If Ant ends the season on the bench, $15m a year sounds like a more realistic number that you can re-sign him for over 4 years, at which point CJ can be traded and Simons can start next season.

    That would probably be the most professional way of going about it. You can ask Dame to sit for the year and that gives you time to evaluate team construction. You can trade Covington and even Nurkic (preferable) with Norm for assets and see how far Ant and CJ take you with a lottery team. That’s a situation where even if we get a low lotto pick, it probably increases CJ and Ant’s trade value significantly.
     
  10. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2019
    Messages:
    8,659
    Likes Received:
    6,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    2 to 3 more years left? Paul is 37 and on pace for All NBA this season. Is his contract an albatross?
     
    PHXBlazer1 and blazerkor like this.
  11. swish3

    swish3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,479
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. Dame should be expected to have at least 5-6 more years at his peak. Simons should be used to get Dame a real all star PF.
     
    blazerkor likes this.
  12. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,909
    Likes Received:
    6,780
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trading away Simons now for a Dale Davis "all star" big man could be far worse than letting Jermaine O'Neal go two decades ago.

    It shocks me so many fans are arguing for this same type of strategy again. At least that Blazers team was a legit contender. This roster is a lottery bound pile of frustration with hardly any long term upside.

    This Blazers team should be trading away mediocre veterans for upside, not trading away just about their only upside player for mediocre veterans.
     
    WillG and PHXBlazer1 like this.
  13. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    26,285
    Likes Received:
    21,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    i 100% agree with most. My comment was more so who he directed his question to. Not what the question was.
    He was feeding a troll schtick!

    im right period! No argument!


    And cat responded to that. So i was laughing.

    i was laughing because i felt cat thought he would get a legit answer. So i was like.. come on man… this schtick has been being played for a while…

    come on man… :)
     
  14. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    26,285
    Likes Received:
    21,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    exactly. Thats why the statement to trade him is the only answer is so ridiculous i was laughing at you responding to such a ridiculous take.
     
    SlyPokerCat likes this.
  15. Orion Bailey

    Orion Bailey Forum Troll

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    26,285
    Likes Received:
    21,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dame is not Chris Paul defensively.

    Not even close….
     
  16. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    20,710
    Likes Received:
    32,570
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you really narrowed down the parameters of the suggestions to fit your narrative

    obviously, trading Simons for a "Dale Davis" may very well be a bad idea. But the NBA has changed and so has the PF position. It's not a Dale Davis type player anymore. Using Simons to get a modern PF like John Collins, or Jaren Jackson, or Lauri Markannen or Bojan Bogdonovich or Chrisian Wood or Bobby Portis doesn't look so bad, does it? Now, obviously those level of players may be out of reach...but they may not, we don't know. If Simons has the upside and value you imply, then maybe his inclusion can fetch back a very good PF...or SF

    but I think there are plenty of questions about just how much upside Simons has. Suggesting trading him 2 weeks ago would NOT have brought down a rain of negative comments. The recency bias of a tiny 5 game sample size is strong. Considering those 5 games all came at home and he played against a string of weak defenders (except for the 1st half before Lowry was ejected) means that upside could be mostly mirage at this point. If he's still operating at a high level after the next 6 road games, then maybe. But even then, an 11 game sample size is really quite small. CJ had a 12 game hot streak at the beginning of last season and it's obvious he was not nearly as good as that 12 games. It's entirely possible Simons isn't nearly as good as these last 5 games suggest

    and just what is his realistic upside anyway? Is it better than what CJ established? If Simons is CJ 2.0, how much value is really there?

    that's not to say I'd just toss him into a trade package for a "mediocre" talent. But the Simon hype-train is out of control. I'm seeing people suggesting that Portland trade Dame and build a team around Simons. Because of 5 home games. That's just loopy
     
    Hoopguru and TBpup like this.
  17. Fez Hammersticks

    Fez Hammersticks スーパーバッド Zero Cool

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    28,880
    Likes Received:
    9,530
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Phone Psychic
    Location:
    The Deep State, US and A.
    If you go this route you have to pair him with a defensive minded guard.

    Any other way and it’s going down the same path Neil stubbornly took: treadmill city. You can’t contend with a backcourt that can’t defend.

    Lu Dort is obviously my choice.
     
    KSF-ERIC likes this.
  18. stampedehero

    stampedehero Make Your Day, a Doobies Day Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,443
    Likes Received:
    9,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Part Time Building Inspector
    Location:
    NJ
  19. glazeduck

    glazeduck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To me -- especially in the wake of Dame electing for surgery, the front office should be evaluating everybody and their value both internally (relative to their salary) as well as to other teams, relative to their return. Roco, Nurk, CJ, Nance should all be shopped, hell worth finding out if someone will give you something of value for McLemore with the way he's been playing of late.

    Ant and Little have been the only real bright spot this year, but if someone offers the moon for them, I think you have to strongly consider it. Doesn't mean you have to do it, but assets and flexibility should be highly valued at this point...
     
    Tyrant of Ants likes this.
  20. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,901
    Likes Received:
    14,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you stop short of what really has to happen. You shop everyone. I love Ant and Nas but their value has to be really high right now, of course you only trade those guys or more likely make them part of a trade package if you're getting back a huge return but they have to be shopped. You also missed Norm. I know Norm is on a team friendly contract and that he's really solid on both ends of the court but he isn't the defensive stopper that we need next to Dame and he (just like Dame, CJ and Ant) is at his best when creating his own shot with the ball in his hands.
     

Share This Page