Nitro - you have your opinion and I respect that............I don't think you've seen the Showtime era or you wouldn't be talking this garbage.You think Nash is a quick player then right there I have to stop.EDIT: Don't give me those stats, Marion gets his points by offensive rebounds, shooting open three's and layups created by dribble penetraion.Unstoppable - a player who can create his own shot anytime and anywhere on the floor.
I have seen many games from the Showtime Lakers, mostly on ESPN Classic. What garbage am I speaking? I am not saying the Suns are a better team, and I am giving the Lakers major props. But Suns are quicker from top to bottom (especially big men), more athletic, and better 3pt shooters. That is the winning formula for a fastbreaking team of today's NBA, and Lakers would have trouble with it (especially the 3ptr's).And due, nash is a very quick player. You don't get so many fastbreak oppertunities with an averagely quick PG, 'nor do you get so many open looks in half court.And Marion wouldn't be able to be stopped by Lakers. I never used words unstoppable, but there wouldn't be anyone on the Lakers who could get him anywhere below his season stats. And it just isn't open 3's and dunks, he has been a 20/10 guy since before Nash arrived.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Sep 13 2006, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MichaelBryant-They had tons of talent, but in today's NBA they wouldn't have such an edge over teams athletically speaking that they did in the '80's. Amare would kill them especially, they would have no answer for such an athletic big man who can run floor. And a team who shoots 31% on 295 3pt shots for a season would have MAJOR trouble facing a team who shoots 470 per seaosn on 38%. Not to mention they would have to play defense much differently agains the Suns than they would against teams of the '80's.As I said before, it'd be very interesting to see.WHO on the Lakers would stop him? Tell me, I'd love to know... Cooper gave up tons of size to him, and for a guy who averages 20/12 on nearly 50% shooting he's a tough guard for any team.</div>Teams today aren't nearly as athletic as the worst teams in the 80's. The difference is the individual talent, but that doesn't equate to the best team play, and nowhere near the level of Showtime.Michael Cooper would SHUT DOWN Shawn Marion, it isn't even close. Cooper took care of Larry Bird like it was nobody's business, Shawn Marion is not Larry Bird and would not be a problem. You obviously don't know how good a defender Coop was.The Lakers had an excellent perimeter defense, they'd do just fine against the Sun's 3point shooting.Amare would not kill the Lakers, Mychal Thompson would take care of him without any major problems at all.You must not have seen Showtime. That's the only way to explain why you think the Suns would cause them trouble.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Sep 13 2006, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have seen many games from the Showtime Lakers, mostly on ESPN Classic. What garbage am I speaking? I am not saying the Suns are a better team, and I am giving the Lakers major props. But Suns are quicker from top to bottom (especially big men), more athletic, and better 3pt shooters. That is the winning formula for a fastbreaking team of today's NBA, and Lakers would have trouble with it (especially the 3ptr's).And due, nash is a very quick player. You don't get so many fastbreak oppertunities with an averagely quick PG, 'nor do you get so many open looks in half court.And Marion wouldn't be able to be stopped by Lakers. I never used words unstoppable, but there wouldn't be anyone on the Lakers who could get him anywhere below his season stats. And it just isn't open 3's and dunks, he has been a 20/10 guy since before Nash arrived.</div>So those two are not the same ???
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Sep 13 2006, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Teams today aren't nearly as athletic as the worst teams in the 80's. The difference is the individual talent, but that doesn't equate to the best team play, and nowhere near the level of Showtime.Michael Cooper would SHUT DOWN Shawn Marion, it isn't even close. Cooper took care of Larry Bird like it was nobody's business, Shawn Marion is not Larry Bird and would not be a problem. You obviously don't know how good a defender Coop was.The Lakers had an excellent perimeter defense, they'd do just fine against the Sun's 3point shooting.Amare would not kill the Lakers, Mychal Thompson would take care of him without any major problems at all.You must not have seen Showtime. That's the only way to explain why you think the Suns would cause them trouble.</div>Yes, teams today are more athletic than the teams of the '80's. There is no question about that. The difference is teams are not trying to outrun other teams anymore. Not because they can't, but because defense wins championships and fastbreaking teams can be beaten as long as you pick and choose.Cooper would give up 2 inches and 60lbs to Marion. Larry Bird was F-A-R less athletic, strong or quick as Marion, 2 totally different players, so that point is moot. I agree, they did have a very good perimeter defense, but they would not be used to defending the 3 on a fastbreak so frequently as the Suns shoot it. Not saying they couldn't do it, but it'd likely be major adjusting.As for Mychal Thompson, he didn't play much minutes, and I was referring to 1985 Lakers rather than the later '80's teams that Thompson played for, and again he would give up around 20lbs and tons of athleticism and strength. But if Amare could drop 37PPG on Tim Duncan, I am sure he could get his 26/9 averages against Mychal Thompson.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakersfoelyfe @ Sep 13 2006, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So those two are not the same ???</div>When I think unstoppable I am in boat you are, a player like Kobe or MJ. But what I am trying to say is there is nobody on the Lakers that could prevent Marion from doing his thing and getting his 20-25PPG with 10-12RPG.
Marion isn't even that threatening to begin with anyway. Coop would take him. No problems. The 2 inch height difference wont mean much, the weight may encourage Marion to post up more but that's it. Coop was an exceptional athlete.The Suns would have trouble shooting out of the half court set, they'd have to spread the floor. The Lakers would naturally give up some open looks here and there, but they'd adjust accordingly.Mychal Thompson is much more physical than Duncan. He'd give it to Amare if he asked for it. He was a great post defender, also, he'd have help off the bench from the likes of A.C and Rambis. And maybe Kareem on the weakside for help.Nash is quick, but so is Byron Scott.
I think Nash is a smart player who knows when and where to drive, I think he's average but not quick.Chris Paul and Gilbert Arenas are quick players imo.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Sep 13 2006, 11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Marion isn't even that threatening to begin with anyway. Coop would take him. No problems. The 2 inch height difference wont mean much, the weight may encourage Marion to post up more but that's it. Coop was an exceptional athlete.The Suns would have trouble shooting out of the half court set, they'd have to spread the floor. The Lakers would naturally give up some open looks here and there, but they'd adjust accordingly.Mychal Thompson is much more physical than Duncan. He'd give it to Amare if he asked for it. He was a great post defender, also, he'd have help off the bench from the likes of A.C and Rambis. And maybe Kareem on the weakside for help.Nash is quick, but so is Byron Scott.</div>22/12 on 53% shooting not threatening? Averaging 20/10 or so throughout nearly his whole career isn't threatening? Being one of best defender sin league? C'mon now...Suns go through their hot and cold streaks. Some games they are red hot from half court, other games they aren't but can still burn you on fastbreak. But yes, Lakers would be a tough defense in the half court. But with a player like Amare down low, they wouldn't be nearly as streaky like they were this year.With Amare's sheer versatility, agressive nature and athletic ability, when he is healthy he is just about as close to unstoppable as you can get. If you rough him up he might flinch, but Amare has embaressed and outperformed so many elite performer..KG, TD, and others, that I feel he wouldn't have much of a problem getting his points.Yes, he is, but take a look at Nash's numbers and in playoffs past 2 years....he is an amazing player, no matter who is guarding him (including more athletic players like Jason Terry, or faster players like Tony Parker). He'd do his job like he does night in and night out.
Marion isn't consistant or reliable enough to be threatening. He didn't even show up to last years playoffs untill game 6 against LA. That's what I mean, he'll have to bring it against Coop and I don't see that happening.We basically agree with the second part so, that's that.I don't think Amare is that versitale, his jumpshot isn't reliable enough for him to go away from the paint. That's gunna hurt him. Mychal Thompson will keep him off the block for most the shot clock, that's really how the Lakers will stop Amare, they'll have to move him off his sweet spot.The thing with guarding Nash is not his quickness, but it's taking away one of his two biggest weapons, Scoring and Passing. The Lakers should focus on taking away his passing lanes and make him shoot. That will in a sense turn Phoenix into a two man team. The Lakers will take off from there. I think we are missing one very important thing. The Suns suck at defense. The Laker fast break was already unstoppable against some of the greatest teams ever. The Suns, who can't even stop Kwame Brown will get killed. The Lakers will hit them in waves and end up with 150 points.
You're talking about the Showtime Lakers one of the best team all time, you think the suns who had never been in a WC finals would give them a hard time..............no seriously.The Suns who almost lost to the current Lakers, let's start thinking both of us Nitro..........The Phoenix Suns will give the Showtime Lakers a hard time is that what you're saying, the same team who won 5 rings will have a problem against a team who can't even make a finals appearance.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Sep 13 2006, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Marion isn't consistant or reliable enough to be threatening. He didn't even show up to last years playoffs untill game 6 against LA. That's what I mean, he'll have to bring it against Coop and I don't see that happening.We basically agree with the second part so, that's that.I don't think Amare is that versitale, his jumpshot isn't reliable enough for him to go away from the paint. That's gunna hurt him. Mychal Thompson will keep him off the block for most the shot clock, that's really how the Lakers will stop Amare, they'll have to move him off his sweet spot.The thing with guarding Nash is not his quickness, but it's taking away one of his two biggest weapons, Scoring and Passing. The Lakers should focus on taking away his passing lanes and make him shoot. That will in a sense turn Phoenix into a two man team. The Lakers will take off from there. I think we are missing one very important thing. The Suns suck at defense. The Laker fast break was already unstoppable against some of the greatest teams ever. The Suns, who can't even stop Kwame Brown will get killed. The Lakers will hit them in waves and end up with 150 points.</div>He had to face Odom, a MUCH better matchup physically than Coop. If you watched Amare in 2004-2005, he moved his jumpshot out to 15ft, and it is pretty reliable too. Her isn't a Dirk Nowitzki or anything, but it is good. As for how to slow him down, you have to play him tough, and not give him shots on the break. That is where he would hurt the Lakers the most, he is probably the best big man at running the floor in the league.Except for JKidd once (I was at the game too!) who held Nash to 0 points, Nash hasn't been able to be stopped in past few years. The Amare/Nash pick and roll totally broke down Dallas' defense 2 years ago en route to a pretty easy victory, and this year it was Nash/Marion doing the pick and roll. Question is could the Lakers stop those tandems? If so, you take away almost all of the Suns' halfcourt offense. And yes, Suns DO suck at defense, and that would be a huge variable ina game/series of these 2 teams. But with Amare down low they wouldn't be as bad as they were this past year, and Marion would give James Worthy problems. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You're talking about the Showtime Lakers one of the best team all time, you think the suns who had never been in a WC finals would give them a hard time..............no seriously.The Suns who almost lost to the current Lakers, let's start thinking both of us Nitro..........The Phoenix Suns will give the Showtime Lakers a hard time is that what you're saying, the same team who won 5 rings will have a problem against a team who can't even make a finals appearance.</div>Umm, they went to 2 WC finals in a row....The current Lakers gave the Suns trouble because they didn't run with the Suns, and they didn't have to face Amare. The Showtime Lakers would run with the Suns, and IMO if they did this they'd lose. The Suns are more athletic, quicker, better 3pt shooters. As I said before, if Lakers wanted to win they'd have to do what Spurs did....run with them when oppertunity arises, otherwise run normal halfcourt offense. Despite a H-you-G-E series by Amare, the Suns lost in 5 games (should have been 4 if it wasn't for an AMAZING Amare block).
I mean nba finals not wc finals my bad, you think the suns would hit their three's everytime they run down the floor??? Showtime would convert all their fastbreaks with dunks and layups, now tell me which system will work on a consistent basis ???
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakersfoelyfe @ Sep 14 2006, 12:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I mean nba finals not wc finals my bad, you think the suns would hit their three's everytime they run down the floor??? Showtime would convert all their fastbreaks with dunks and layups, now tell me which system will work on a consistent basis ???</div>No problem.If the Showtime Lakers played at the pace they did in the '80's, they'd hit over 40%, and hit a ton of 3's. And contrary to what you might think, the Suns also get a ton of fastbreak dunks and layups.
It's a hard arguement, as today's NBA is much slowed down compared to the NBA of the '80's. Suns are more versatile due to the 3pt threat they impose, and they also are great at finishing strong to the rim (when Amare is there it is even tougher to stop). But Lakers were more efficient and had better finishers along with better passer. 2 different styles, but when on Suns offense is unstoppable.
In their era yes. nobody knows how they would be in today's NBA, but IMO they'd be a bit easier to slow down on the fast break because you wouldn't have to worry as much about the 3pt line like you do with Nash's pullups, Marion/Bell/Thomas/others spotting up from 3, etc... Then again, that means Lakers would likely be more efficient, but in today's NBA it is a lot harder to out run and out athletically perform other teams liek the Lakers did to get their points in the '80's.But overall as a team the Showtime Lakers were a better team, but all I am saying is that against the Suns would be a real tough matchup.
We both agree that the Lakers will win in a 7 game series, right ??? In how many games though ???You think it will go into a game 7 ???
Again dude, this is a really tough arguement. If the Lakers slowed the game donw to take advantage of Kareem, and picked and choosed when to run the break, they'd win in about 5-6 games. If they tried to outrun the Suns, I could see it going to 7 games with Suns possibly winning.
