<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> My question is......then what? Hire Barney the Dinosaur as the head coach? Actually that be awesome. DO IT THRON!..............</p> </div></p> </p> <div><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t;object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="</param><param" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/fq3DLpXFA3I&r...am><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fq3DLpXFA3I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t;object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="</param><param" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/fq3DLpXFA3I&r...am><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fq3DLpXFA3I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /></embed></object></div></p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Its time Frank gets the axe. The man just doesn't learn. Whats with a different lineup every night? What is with the Collins infatuation? Anyone notice that most of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out. The rotation is a mess. Magloire seems to have disappeared off the Nets radar yet Collins and Boone keep getting minutes. Baffling indeed</p> </div></p> What?</p> This confuses me. What's wrong with a coach trying to find the best lineup possible for his team early in the season? Frank is dealing with injuries, new personnel, and old personnel not playing up to their potential.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> thanks; my opinion is pretty clear by now: collins does suck at some things and is good at some other things. Ultimately, his value depends on who is on the court with him and how he is used. In some situations, he could easily be worthless; in others, he could be an integral cog for a winning team. So to answer the question is he is a terrible player: It depends. To go back to the analogy I like to use, if I've got a knight and you've got a bishop, I'm going to do everything I can to make that knight as strong as he can be, such as jamming the center of the board with pawns so that it is irrelevant that he can't attack from long range like your bishop can. I can make that Knight as strong as a fucking rook. Each piece isn't strong or weak by themselves; it depends on the environment that they find themselves in. But there may be a time where I've got to sacrifice the knight to improve my position, because the conditions on the board, such as the other pieces still left, don't mesh with his skills and talents. Likewise, there are times when Collins shouldn't play as much--but the next game, you still start out with that knight and a plan to make it a kick-ass piece.</p> </div></p> </p> Wow. Beautiful. Nearly brought a tear to my eye. Great post.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> it's funny that this board complains so much yet offer any type solution to the problem.</p> Say Frank is the biggest problem-the reaction here is that he should be fired(FIRE FRANK! FRANK IS A MORON! OMG FIRE THIS IDIOT!)</p> My question is......then what? Hire Barney the Dinosaur as the head coach? Actually that be awesome. DO IT THRON!..............</p> </div></p> Enjoy being mired in mediocrity. Three years should have taught you something about this team. They need a change badly</p> </p> </div></p> </p> I fail to see how Frank is the cause for the players playing badly this season. Plus, i was poking fun at the fact that the bipolar posters here cant think 5 minutes ahead of something.</p> </p> -Dumpy: Hahahahaha</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> it's funny that this board complains so much yet offer any type solution to the problem.</p> Say Frank is the biggest problem-the reaction here is that he should be fired(FIRE FRANK! FRANK IS A MORON! OMG FIRE THIS IDIOT!)</p> My question is......then what? Hire Barney the Dinosaur as the head coach? Actually that be awesome. DO IT THRON!..............</p> </div></p> Enjoy being mired in mediocrity. Three years should have taught you something about this team. They need a change badly</p> </p> </div></p> </p> I fail to see how Frank is the cause for the players playing badly this season. Plus, i was poking fun at the fact that the bipolar posters here cant think 5 minutes ahead of something.</p> </p> -Dumpy: Hahahahaha</p> </div></p> </p> Its Frank's job to put in lineups that will be effective.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> The same people who are saying fire Frank are far more inflexible than Frank could possibly be. These guys will never be convinced Frank is doing okay, no matter how persuasive your argument.</p> Just like certain people are not able to alter their opinion of Collins, no matter how badly they are dumpyowned.</p> </div></p> </p> Excellent, excellent post. So much so that I think it should be the forum slogan.</p>
I think mynets get 1.5 weeks left, but I would be proud putting "we get dumpyowned" as the slogan if you win the next contest </p>
Im watchin this Knicks-Celtics game and Im screaming at the Tv watchin Eddie House, this guy is straight energy and buckets off the bench. Hes nailing those off balance 3's and runnin the point well. I know hes just one bench guy, but if we still had his scoring and energy off the bench things would be different.</p>
[quote name='Enigma']</p> [quote name='L']</p> [quote name='Enigma']</p> [quote name='L']</p> it's funny that this board complains so much yet offer any type solution to the problem.</p> Say Frank is the biggest problem-the reaction here is that he should be fired(FIRE FRANK! FRANK IS A MORON! OMG FIRE THIS IDIOT!)</p> My question is......then what? Hire Barney the Dinosaur as the head coach? Actually that be awesome. DO IT THRON!..............</p> [/QUOTE]</p> Enjoy being mired in mediocrity. Three years should have taught you something about this team. They need a change badly</p> </p> [/QUOTE]</p> </p> I fail to see how Frank is the cause for the players playing badly this season. Plus, i was poking fun at the fact that the bipolar posters here cant think 5 minutes ahead of something.</p> </p> -Dumpy: Hahahahaha</p> [/QUOTE]</p> </p> Its Frank's job to put in lineups that will be effective.</p> [/QUOTE]</p> </p> Refer to lukewarm's post about those who criticize Frank for just about everything.</p> Also, is it Frank's fault that Magloire turns the ball over nearly every time he touches it? Is it Frank's fault that Carter got hurt and thus only leaving us with only 3 guards to utilize? Is it Frank's fault that Krstic's knee is still not 100% healthy? How can he put in an effective lineup when over half the team is playing like garbage?(Magloire-ugh do not get me started, Allen on most nights, Kidd to an extent because of the high turnover rate, Boone and Carter's struggles in the beginning of the season, etc...)</p> We have yet to see what a fully healthy Nets team play(quite a while too). Do I think this team is elite? No, because BOTH the players and the coach are too inconsistent(not the only reason why but i think inconsistency is the biggest problem). They either show flashes of brilliance or flashes of stupidity.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Its Frank's job to put in lineups that will be effective.</p> </div></p> </p> It's also Frank's job to figure out which lineups will be most effective, while dealing with injuries, players getting used to the team, and players playing like shit.</p> Also, he's gotta figure out which combinations work best, and which lineups are the least likely to give up a large amount of points.</p> So he was wrong a few times early in the season...so what? Some coaches take some time.</p> I'll admit I've called for his head a few times, because some of the things he does are mind-boggling, but it's early in the season. I'm all about giving chances to people...I believe things will work themselves out.</p> Get a level head for a second, and think about it. He deserves a bit of time with this team. Come January, if he doesn't have this down, he's just not the head coach for us.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Its Frank's job to put in lineups that will be effective.</p> </div></p> </p> It's also Frank's job to figure out which lineups will be most effective, while dealing with injuries, players getting used to the team, and players playing like shit.</p> Also, he's gotta figure out which combinations work best, and which lineups are the least likely to give up a large amount of points.</p> So he was wrong a few times early in the season...so what? Some coaches take some time.</p> I'll admit I've called for his head a few times, because some of the things he does are mind-boggling, but it's early in the season. I'm all about giving chances to people...I believe things will work themselves out.</p> Get a level head for a second, and think about it. He deserves a bit of time with this team. Come January, if he doesn't have this down, he's just not the head coach for us.</p> </div></p> agreed, but the question will still be posed: who would be the coach if Frank were to be fired?</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Its Frank's job to put in lineups that will be effective.</p> </div></p> </p> It's also Frank's job to figure out which lineups will be most effective, while dealing with injuries, players getting used to the team, and players playing like shit.</p> Also, he's gotta figure out which combinations work best, and which lineups are the least likely to give up a large amount of points.</p> So he was wrong a few times early in the season...so what? Some coaches take some time.</p> I'll admit I've called for his head a few times, because some of the things he does are mind-boggling, but it's early in the season. I'm all about giving chances to people...I believe things will work themselves out.</p> Get a level head for a second, and think about it. He deserves a bit of time with this team. Come January, if he doesn't have this down, he's just not the head coach for us.</p> </div></p> agreed, but the question will still be posed: who would be the coach if Frank were to be fired?</p> </p> </div></p> </p> I don't see what's wrong with Barney.</p> But, if we don't get the chance to pick him up, how bout Mark Jackson?</p>
To add to what I've said, here's something from Dave D.:</p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'></p> You don't know dizzy until you listen to this - it's the coach's explanation as to why the starting group really doesn't matter:</p> "Because I think there are different reasons why," he said. "First, Krstic was initially a starter. He's on the shelf for a while. He's out. So now we were underperforming so we took Collins out of the starting lineup. We started Sean and Jamaal two games. We go on the road and we try to get (re-settled) from a game-plan execution standpoint, so Malik and Twin. And then because of different reasons we went back with the small four, so we'll go back. Right now it's Malik or Twin, Jason, Richard, Antoine or Vince."</p> Somewhere in there, we think he said he's going to start six guys tomorrow.</p> Either way, you won't see Curly play for a while, other than garbage time stints: As the coach suggested last week, he'll have to get in shape on his own time.</div></p> LINK!</p> If you don't get it by now, I don't really know what to tell you.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> You should possess the ability to change your opinion in light of new developments, or when the points on which you base your opinion are shown to be wrong. I'm not saying you do or you don't, but if the hypothetical you doesn't, what the hell's the point in engaging you in a debate about it?</p> </div></p> </p> Now how can my opinion be wrong? That would be merely your opinion would it not?</p> What all us nets fans see for 48mpg is infinate interpretations, observations and the beauty is that we all take that from one game. Now I have seen dumpy's stuff since 2004 (i think) and have agreed with him on several non Jason Collins related topics. I mean what I see every single game is a High BBall IQ, athletically challenged big man who is not suited to Jason Kidd BBall anymore. In 2002 he moved faster, he was a bigger factor on offense etc... blah blah blah. Those for and against collins have argued it all ad nausim (sp) almost as much as whether Frank should be coach or the towel-boy. whatever. Its gotten a little old.</p> However the fact that I should <u>have</u> to change my opinion due to a conflicting interpretation of the exact same 48 minutes is nothing short of stupifying. I mean I am open to debate, more than happy to offer opinions, ready to conceed defeat when my point is proven wrong next time I am lucky to catch a nets game. That has not happened before my very own eyes in regards to Jason Collins so why am I wrong?</p> I see where you are coming from lukewarmplay, but the way you have chosen to articulate your point is somewhat disturbing. The fundamental point of an opinion is that nobody is right or wrong, its just a way of describing what they hear, see and feel.</p>
Show me where I said you <u>have</u> to change your opinion. Show me where I said your opinion is wrong. I'm sorry that you're disturbed by the arguments you imagined I made, but maybe it means you're just disturbed.</p> Here's what I said if you want to read it again: when you base your opinion on points which are shown to be wrong, or which have changed over time, you should possess the ability to change that opinion.</p> Let's parse this anonymous quote that I pulled from somewhere on the internet: "Its time Frank gets the axe. The man just doesn't learn. Whats with a different lineup every night? What is with the Collins infatuation? Anyone notice that most of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out. The rotation is a mess. Magloire seems to have disappeared off the Nets radar yet Collins and Boone keep getting minutes. Baffling indeed."</p> Here this person begins by seeming to imply that Frank should be fired because he is unable to change his approach to coaching, a long-time complaint made by critics. In the next sentence, he criticizes Frank for changing the line-up. He then criticizes Frank for using Collins, who, according to some, is an excellent interior defender. He then notes that all of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out.</p> In the first 5 sentences, we have 2 examples of a person indirectly refuting his own opinion, and yet this person's judgement clearly remains unaffected by the evidence he himself provides. I wish I could thank this person for proving my point so thoroughly, but I wish for him to remain anonymous.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Show me where I said you <u>have</u> to change your opinion. Show me where I said your opinion is wrong. I'm sorry that you're disturbed by the arguments you imagined I made, but maybe it means you're just disturbed.</p> Here's what I said if you want to read it again: when you base your opinion on points which are shown to be wrong, or which have changed over time, you should possess the ability to change that opinion.</p> Let's parse this anonymous quote that I pulled from somewhere on the internet: "Its time Frank gets the axe. The man just doesn't learn. Whats with a different lineup every night? What is with the Collins infatuation? Anyone notice that most of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out. The rotation is a mess. Magloire seems to have disappeared off the Nets radar yet Collins and Boone keep getting minutes. Baffling indeed."</p> Here this person begins by seeming to imply that Frank should be fired because he is unable to change his approach to coaching, a long-time complaint made by critics. In the next sentence, he criticizes Frank for changing the line-up. He then criticizes Frank for using Collins, who, according to some, is an excellent interior defender. He then notes that all of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out.</p> In the first 5 sentences, we have 2 examples of a person indirectly refuting his own opinion, and yet this person's judgement clearly remains unaffected by the evidence he himself provides. I wish I could thank this person for proving my point so thoroughly, but I wish for him to remain anonymous.</p> </div></p> </p> I take it the anonymouspersonyou are talking about is me,as I made those statements you are referencing in your post. First point, Collins is an excellent interior defender, Gasol made most of his points from 18 feet out. As a coach, wouldnt it make sense to put a player on Gasol that would bother him from 18 feet out instead of using a guy that was a step behind catching up to Gasol on the perimeter.</p> Regarding his infatuation with Collins, how many times this season has he had Collins in the game in the dying minutes of the game, knowing very well that Collins is an offensive liability?</p> Thirdly, how many different lineups have the Nets employed this season, and its only 15 games into the season. His rotations are baffling, there is no consistency. One player can play 20 mins today, and then not be heard from for the next 5 games.</p> Thanks for dissecting my grammar though, its nice to know there are english scholars on here</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Show me where I said you <u>have</u> to change your opinion. Show me where I said your opinion is wrong. I'm sorry that you're disturbed by the arguments you imagined I made, but maybe it means you're just disturbed.</p> Here's what I said if you want to read it again: when you base your opinion on points which are shown to be wrong, or which have changed over time, you should possess the ability to change that opinion.</p> Let's parse this anonymous quote that I pulled from somewhere on the internet: "Its time Frank gets the axe. The man just doesn't learn. Whats with a different lineup every night? What is with the Collins infatuation? Anyone notice that most of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out. The rotation is a mess. Magloire seems to have disappeared off the Nets radar yet Collins and Boone keep getting minutes. Baffling indeed."</p> Here this person begins by seeming to imply that Frank should be fired because he is unable to change his approach to coaching, a long-time complaint made by critics. In the next sentence, he criticizes Frank for changing the line-up. He then criticizes Frank for using Collins, who, according to some, is an excellent interior defender. He then notes that all of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out.</p> In the first 5 sentences, we have 2 examples of a person indirectly refuting his own opinion, and yet this person's judgement clearly remains unaffected by the evidence he himself provides. I wish I could thank this person for proving my point so thoroughly, but I wish for him to remain anonymous.</p> </div></p> </p> I take it the anonymouspersonyou are talking about is me,as I made those statements you are referencing in your post. First point, Collins is an excellent interior defender, Gasol made most of his points from 18 feet out. As a coach, wouldnt it make sense to put a player on Gasol that would bother him from 18 feet out instead of using a guy that was a step behind catching up to Gasol on the perimeter.</p> Regarding his infatuation with Collins, how many times this season has he had Collins in the game in the dying minutes of the game, knowing very well that Collins is an offensive liability?</p> Thirdly, how many different lineups have the Nets employed this season, and its only 15 games into the season. His rotations are baffling, there is no consistency. One player can play 20 mins today, and then not be heard from for the next 5 games.</p> Thanks for dissecting my grammar though, its nice to know there are english scholars on here</p> </div></p> </p> What do you think of Frank's explanation here? Does it make sense to you?</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Show me where I said you <u>have</u> to change your opinion. Show me where I said your opinion is wrong. I'm sorry that you're disturbed by the arguments you imagined I made, but maybe it means you're just disturbed.</p> Here's what I said if you want to read it again: when you base your opinion on points which are shown to be wrong, or which have changed over time, you should possess the ability to change that opinion.</p> Let's parse this anonymous quote that I pulled from somewhere on the internet: "Its time Frank gets the axe. The man just doesn't learn. Whats with a different lineup every night? What is with the Collins infatuation? Anyone notice that most of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out. The rotation is a mess. Magloire seems to have disappeared off the Nets radar yet Collins and Boone keep getting minutes. Baffling indeed."</p> Here this person begins by seeming to imply that Frank should be fired because he is unable to change his approach to coaching, a long-time complaint made by critics. In the next sentence, he criticizes Frank for changing the line-up. He then criticizes Frank for using Collins, who, according to some, is an excellent interior defender. He then notes that all of Gasol's points came from 18 feet out.</p> In the first 5 sentences, we have 2 examples of a person indirectly refuting his own opinion, and yet this person's judgement clearly remains unaffected by the evidence he himself provides. I wish I could thank this person for proving my point so thoroughly, but I wish for him to remain anonymous.</p> </div></p> </p> I take it the anonymouspersonyou are talking about is me,as I made those statements you are referencing in your post. First point, Collins is an excellent interior defender, Gasol made most of his points from 18 feet out. As a coach, wouldnt it make sense to put a player on Gasol that would bother him from 18 feet out instead of using a guy that was a step behind catching up to Gasol on the perimeter.</p> Regarding his infatuation with Collins, how many times this season has he had Collins in the game in the dying minutes of the game, knowing very well that Collins is an offensive liability?</p> Thirdly, how many different lineups have the Nets employed this season, and its only 15 games into the season. His rotations are baffling, there is no consistency. One player can play 20 mins today, and then not be heard from for the next 5 games.</p> Thanks for dissecting my grammar though, its nice to know there are english scholars on here</p> </div></p> </p> What do you think of Frank's explanation here? Does it make sense to you?</p> </div></p> </p> It sounds like a person searching for answers. Make up your damn mind already. The preseason was for tinkering around, we are 15 games into the season, every game matters.</p>
