So Basically, this guy says half the guys we've acquired are a bunch of losers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 21 2008, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think the team is much better than it was last season. And its not a given that you'll even get the 8th spot for the playoffs. The Cavs on the other hand are a contender, and maybe a player away from the championship.

I'm with Denny on this one.</div>

but I don't understand just what his point is. No one is suggesting that the Neta are better than the cavs. I just think that the Nets will be decent, and be at least as good as last year (when they missed the playoffs, BTW), and that their upside (if everything breaks right) is 40-45 wins. Of course, if Devin harris or Vince Carter get hurt, all bets will be off.

The Wages of Wins makes it seem like the Nets will be terrible, awful--and I just don't see that. There's a difference between awful and below average.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Berri, the college prof with Moneyball-type stats, argues the Nets have chosen a motley group whose “wins produced” numbers are not likely to attract top-flight free agents like, say, Lebron James. “Yi, Dooling, Najera, and Hayes are not the core players a championship team requires”, he argues.</div>

That's what I was commenting on.
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oh, OK. there are too many variables to consider before thinking about what might or might not happen in two years. Regardless, a 30-year-old, overpaid, declining Richard Jefferson certainly wouldn't have helped, either.

I don't know what to think about this current Nets team, but I think I've seen enough to renew League Pass for another season. I think it'll be fascinating to watch them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My take is that Carter is going to be... what, 34? ... and that's not going to be attractive to a LeBron. I like Harris a lot, but he's not a #2 option even.

Yi seems really raw (against NBA competition) but he's the key. If he develops into a 20/10 guy, then maybe you are starting to be attractive to LeBron. Even then, you have to look at the Lakers and Celtics as the kind of team that is the serious contender - three guys like LeBron in their primes. Or four even.</div>

I hope you're right. The idea of rooting for him makes me sick.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My take is that Carter is going to be... what, 34? ... and that's not going to be attractive to a LeBron. I like Harris a lot, but he's not a #2 option even.

Yi seems really raw (against NBA competition) but he's the key. If he develops into a 20/10 guy, then maybe you are starting to be attractive to LeBron. Even then, you have to look at the Lakers and Celtics as the kind of team that is the serious contender - three guys like LeBron in their primes. Or four even.</div>

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the Nets are attempting to stockpile young talent.

And situations in Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta, and Chicago even aren't getting that much better. There's a chance they could pick off some unhappy star/quality player(s) from those teams, a la Boston.

As people keep saying, over and over again - you don't really know exactly what's going to happen in 2 years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My take is that Carter is going to be... what, 34? ... and that's not going to be attractive to a LeBron. I like Harris a lot, but he's not a #2 option even.

Yi seems really raw (against NBA competition) but he's the key. If he develops into a 20/10 guy, then maybe you are starting to be attractive to LeBron. Even then, you have to look at the Lakers and Celtics as the kind of team that is the serious contender - three guys like LeBron in their primes. Or four even.</div>

I doubt Vince will be apart of the Nets if LBJ is landed. He is part of the now, not the then

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jul 21 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 21 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My take is that Carter is going to be... what, 34? ... and that's not going to be attractive to a LeBron. I like Harris a lot, but he's not a #2 option even.

Yi seems really raw (against NBA competition) but he's the key. If he develops into a 20/10 guy, then maybe you are starting to be attractive to LeBron. Even then, you have to look at the Lakers and Celtics as the kind of team that is the serious contender - three guys like LeBron in their primes. Or four even.</div>

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the Nets are attempting to stockpile young talent.

And situations in Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta, and Chicago even aren't getting that much better. There's a chance they could pick off some unhappy star/quality player(s) from those teams, a la Boston.

As people keep saying, over and over again - you don't really know exactly what's going to happen in 2 years.
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Again, non-biased observer, except for the Bulls, that is.

Phoenix? Amare is the top guy they have who might attract LeBron. I doubt he's going anywhere tho.

Houston? TMac. He's not going anywhere, either. Neither is Yao, if he could only stay healthy.

Atlanta? Joe Johnson and a lot of guys with p-p-p-p-potential. Joe's inked and not going anywhere.

Chicago? Their best player, Deng, is about the same as Harris.

I have noticed. The Nets did far better than expected this offseason, but the catch is that Lopez has to really pan out, you have to bank on a 2nd round pick becoming a star, and Yi has to step up about 4 levels.

The rest of the young talent isn't all that special, IMO.
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Two more years of high lottery picks will change that for the better.

 

Still though the question remains why would LBJ come to a team to start rebuilding again? Because with the current team, there is no way that it would attract him unless like Denny said they become better than average and maybe stars in this league.

The biggest thing to remember is that with the Cavs, they've reached the finals already, and just this past playoffs lost to the best team in the NBA (of course the Celtics) and next season they'll be contending again, they also have better starters, and a better bench. A piece or two away from winning the championship next season IMHO, and also being a threat to become a dynasty for a few years. (kinda like the spurs or lakers)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 21 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Still though the question remains why would LBJ come to a team to start rebuilding again? Because with the current team, there is no way that it would attract him unless like Denny said they become better than average and maybe stars in this league.

The biggest thing to remember is that with the Cavs, they've reached the finals already, and just this past playoffs lost to the best team in the NBA (of course the Celtics) and next season they'll be contending again, they also have better starters, and a better bench. A piece or two away from winning the championship next season IMHO, and also being a threat to become a dynasty for a few years. (kinda like the spurs or lakers)</div>

The Cavs got that far because of LBJ.

It isn't difficult to put together a better supporting cast than what Ferry has done.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 21 2008, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 21 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Still though the question remains why would LBJ come to a team to start rebuilding again? Because with the current team, there is no way that it would attract him unless like Denny said they become better than average and maybe stars in this league.

The biggest thing to remember is that with the Cavs, they've reached the finals already, and just this past playoffs lost to the best team in the NBA (of course the Celtics) and next season they'll be contending again, they also have better starters, and a better bench. A piece or two away from winning the championship next season IMHO, and also being a threat to become a dynasty for a few years. (kinda like the spurs or lakers)</div>

The Cavs got that far because of LBJ.

It isn't difficult to put together a better supporting cast than what Ferry has done.
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No question cpaw, that Danny has done a very bad job so far, but when you compare the two teams at this point, the Cavs are right there competing for the championship, while if you had LBJ with the current Nets team, they might win a first round series.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 22 2008, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 21 2008, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 21 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Still though the question remains why would LBJ come to a team to start rebuilding again? Because with the current team, there is no way that it would attract him unless like Denny said they become better than average and maybe stars in this league.

The biggest thing to remember is that with the Cavs, they've reached the finals already, and just this past playoffs lost to the best team in the NBA (of course the Celtics) and next season they'll be contending again, they also have better starters, and a better bench. A piece or two away from winning the championship next season IMHO, and also being a threat to become a dynasty for a few years. (kinda like the spurs or lakers)</div>

The Cavs got that far because of LBJ.

It isn't difficult to put together a better supporting cast than what Ferry has done.
</div>

No question cpaw, that Danny has done a very bad job so far, but when you compare the two teams at this point, the Cavs are right there competing for the championship, while if you had LBJ with the current Nets team, they might win a first round series.
</div>

What is the point of comparing the Nets of today with the Cavs of today?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 22 2008, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 22 2008, 12:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 21 2008, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 21 2008, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Still though the question remains why would LBJ come to a team to start rebuilding again? Because with the current team, there is no way that it would attract him unless like Denny said they become better than average and maybe stars in this league.

The biggest thing to remember is that with the Cavs, they've reached the finals already, and just this past playoffs lost to the best team in the NBA (of course the Celtics) and next season they'll be contending again, they also have better starters, and a better bench. A piece or two away from winning the championship next season IMHO, and also being a threat to become a dynasty for a few years. (kinda like the spurs or lakers)</div>

The Cavs got that far because of LBJ.

It isn't difficult to put together a better supporting cast than what Ferry has done.
</div>

No question cpaw, that Danny has done a very bad job so far, but when you compare the two teams at this point, the Cavs are right there competing for the championship, while if you had LBJ with the current Nets team, they might win a first round series.
</div>

What is the point of comparing the Nets of today with the Cavs of today?
</div>

Because you said the Cavs got that for the reason that they have LBJ, of course I agree with that but if you're to build a team ready to contend in 2010 and be able to attract him to come to Brooklyn, this hasn't been a great start so far, when you compare the Cavs which are ready as of right now to contend and will only get better with free agency or trades.

 

The Nets will definitely have to show a Sixers-esque level of success if they want to even think of luring Lebron away, IMO. A lot of posters in this forum have pointed to things like the Jay-Z connection, the allure of the big city, Chinese endorsements, and the potential to be the centerpiece for an up-and-coming team. I don't think any of those are all that convincing though. If Lebron is willing to give up the biggest possible contract for success (I still doubt that) its going to take more than just a collection of lottery talents with the promise of potential. They'll had to have shown some measure of success already.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jul 22 2008, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Because you said the Cavs got that for the reason that they have LBJ, of course I agree with that but if you're to build a team ready to contend in 2010 and be able to attract him to come to Brooklyn, this hasn't been a great start so far, when you compare the Cavs which are ready as of right now to contend and will only get better with free agency or trades.</div>

How isn't this a great start? The first order of business was creating a better cap situation. The second thing was to get rid of the dead weight and toxic lockerroom players from last season.

It has to be torn down before it can be rebuilt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 22 2008, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets will definitely have to show a Sixers-esque level of success if they want to even think of luring Lebron away, IMO. A lot of posters in this forum have pointed to things like the Jay-Z connection, the allure of the big city, Chinese endorsements, and the potential to be the centerpiece for an up-and-coming team. I don't think any of those are all that convincing though. If Lebron is willing to give up the biggest possible contract for success (I still doubt that) its going to take more than just a collection of lottery talents with the promise of potential. They'll had to have shown some measure of success already.</div>

Even if the Nets have to demonstrate some success, they don't have to do it this season

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Of course if the Nets keep losing and adding lottery picks, maybe the picture will change.</div>

I like how he just blows by this point, even though he brought it up himself.

The Nets are doing a great rebuilding job so far. This guy doesn't give any alternative plan that would have been better.

The fact is that the Nets are no worse than last year, but are in a far better position going forward - and that has nothing to do with LeBron or any other free agent.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 22 2008, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chutney @ Jul 22 2008, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Nets will definitely have to show a Sixers-esque level of success if they want to even think of luring Lebron away, IMO. A lot of posters in this forum have pointed to things like the Jay-Z connection, the allure of the big city, Chinese endorsements, and the potential to be the centerpiece for an up-and-coming team. I don't think any of those are all that convincing though. If Lebron is willing to give up the biggest possible contract for success (I still doubt that) its going to take more than just a collection of lottery talents with the promise of potential. They'll had to have shown some measure of success already.</div>

Even if the Nets have to demonstrate some success, they don't have to do it this season
</div>
Oh definitely. And for the record, I wasn't saying the Nets couldn't do it. I think they're on the right path and its anyone's guess if the talent they assemble can reach some level of success in the near future.

 

I follow Berri and moneyball. He's good with backing up his reasoning with stats and numbers. His prediction is if every player on the team remain the same from previous year, it's easy to chart wins/loses. He goes by a win ratio, it has decent accuracy.

He's not a crystal ball guy. He'll be wrong if the young players on the Nets have break out year. But, because basketball is only 5 starters, it's one of the easiest sports to predict base on previous stats.


Carter/Harris is consistent. He's betting Yi/Lopez/TBA starting SF will suck. Sorry to say this, but he has a good chance to be right. He's stated young players usually need 3 years experience to make a difference in NBA.