<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 6 2007, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Remember Kobe rode the bench very early in his career, averaging about 20MPG in first 2 seasons and averaging only around 3RPG. But he has had seasons of over 6RPG, and one season where he was .1RPG away from 7RPG. He is a good rebounder.LeBron is no way in HELL alongside Kobe as best player in the league. I don't even put Bron in top 2. Kobe and MJ are the 2 best scorers of the past 20-25 years. Kobe is the only great swingman who can SHUT DOWN the other team's opposing star. He is the most clutch player of this era. He has 3 rings, countless all star appearences and all-NBA first teams, been on all-defensive team, etc... Not to mention he has matured into a fantastic leader, a very good playmaker and good rebounder.Outside of his MVP award, there is not one reason why I'd even CONSIDER AI being over Kobe on the all-time list. That's just being biased.</div>Okay I get what your saying but still.Kobe is first, and Lebron is 2nd. Who the heck do you have at 2? Lebron is only player in the league who can average a triple double he does everything. Lebron is the 2nd best player in the league. Now sure who you would have 2nd?And I am not being biased here. I never actually said AI should be higher then Kobe I said they both should be very very close that is what I said. But right now I still say AI has had a better carrer out side of the titles Kobe won WITH Shaq. AI has lead the league in points, and steals in the same year I think same time last player to do that was who? Has Kobe yet lead a team of no body to the finals? Now I think he still can. And when he will retire he should deff end up better then AI I never said other wise I said AI should be close to Kobe. And right now I think AI is a little better of carrer wise out side of the titles.Kobe is no way rgiht now top 15 now that is being a homer. He is not even top 20 right now I think. Top 25 sure you can argue. But really out side of winning titles with Shaq he has not done more then AI even. And I am not just saying that cause I am a AI fan.Kobe should end up being better then AI even though I don't think he is better yet when you take out the titles.All I said was AI should be close to him when both the carrer ends. I never said AI should be higher then him when the carrers end.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Serge @ Feb 8 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay I get what your saying but still.Kobe is first, and Lebron is 2nd. Who the heck do you have at 2? Lebron is only player in the league who can average a triple double he does everything. Lebron is the 2nd best player in the league. Now sure who you would have 2nd?And I am not being biased here. I never actually said AI should be higher then Kobe I said they both should be very very close that is what I said. But right now I still say AI has had a better carrer out side of the titles Kobe won WITH Shaq. AI has lead the league in points, and steals in the same year I think same time last player to do that was who? Has Kobe yet lead a team of no body to the finals? Now I think he still can. And when he will retire he should deff end up better then AI I never said other wise I said AI should be close to Kobe. And right now I think AI is a little better of carrer wise out side of the titles.Kobe is no way rgiht now top 15 now that is being a homer. He is not even top 20 right now I think. Top 25 sure you can argue. But really out side of winning titles with Shaq he has not done more then AI even. And I am not just saying that cause I am a AI fan.Kobe should end up being better then AI even though I don't think he is better yet when you take out the titles.All I said was AI should be close to him when both the carrer ends. I never said AI should be higher then him when the carrers end.</div>Name me 15 players better than kobe and justify your answers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Feb 8 2007, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Name me 15 players better than kobe and justify your answers.</div>You cant its impossible. Kobe is just outside the top 10 right now in my eyes and will finish his career around 6 or 7 all time, possibly higher. When I first started watching him about 5 or 6 years ago I thought he would be the best ever better than jordan. Now I cant really argue against mj but at the end of his career there is definately the shot that he could be called the greatest of all time. For people to widely acknowledge it though, he will need titles and numerous mvps which I personally is bogus. I think titles are overrated and kobe should already have an mvp. Considering Kobes best player since shaq has been lamar odom who is good but not someone you expect to make a title run with as your 2nd best player and after that there is a considerable drop off in talent on that roster, and hes making playoff pushes with them is a testament to his leadership clutchness and excellence. Kobe recieves a lot of hate but just watch him shoot, its so mesmerizing that I think you'll forget about that really quick.
He will never be the GOAT unless he wins 4 more titles, 6 MVPs, scores the most points, he pretty much has to beat every last Jordan stat for me. no one is better than that guy. maybe besides Bill Russell.but I think top 20-25, maybe even top 50 is safe. I dont think you guys are going back far enough in time to include some of the other greats. dont get me wrong, I love kobe, but we'll see how this all goes down.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Illosophee @ Feb 7 2007, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">So, he's Scorer B, right? If he can do all of the above, that means Kobe can slash and shoot... Umm... Why would he be in a new category when "slashing and shooting" is already in the Scorer B category?</span></div>Scorer A refers to a player who excels at slashingScorer B refers to a scorer who can slash and shoot efficientlyScorer C refers to a scorer who excels at shootingScorer D is a scorer who excels at both (Scorer B can do both well, but he's not great at both like Scorer D)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PN13 @ Feb 8 2007, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He will never be the GOAT unless he wins 4 more titles, 6 MVPs, scores the most points, he pretty much has to beat every last Jordan stat for me. no one is better than that guy. maybe besides Bill Russell.but I think top 20-25, maybe even top 50 is safe. I dont think you guys are going back far enough in time to include some of the other greats. dont get me wrong, I love kobe, but we'll see how this all goes down.</div>Right now I agree he is top 25 probably.He has a chance to be MAYBE top 15, but nothing better.Person who said name 15 better I can, but don't have time to go back.And Kobe just out side of top 10 right now? HAHA he will never be out side of top 10 you gotta be kidding me to the person who said that.Kobe is about 25 right now, and can end up about 15 but you people are nuts if you think he will make the top 10. Top 15 will be hard but possible anything else you people are reaching. I like Kobe my 2nd fav player, but he has done nothing except the 81 point game since Shaq left and averaging 35 for one season. And Yeah he does not have much around him. But Odom is better then some thought. And bench guys are aight not BAD. And they can all play D unlike AI teammates yet AI has even done more by him self. For real I can even argue AI being better then Kobe RIGHT NOW. I am not saying AI will be better once Kobe retires just for now I am saying. So there is no way Kobe is top 15 now, and top 20. Top 25 okay but you people are going WAY over board.And yes I watch Kobe not a lot but enough. I know he has a good shot that is awsome how he can just shoot over you make any shot look easy. But people also overrate him FOR NOW.
[quote name='Serge' post='284545' date='Feb 8 2007, 07:56 PM']I like Kobe my 2nd fav player, but he has done nothing except the 81 point game since Shaq left and averaging 35 for one season.[/quote]That was the most PPG since Jordan of the '80's. The 81pt game is second highest in NBA HISTORY. He also made all defensive first team last year, and brought a crappy team to a 7th seed in the West. This year his team is likely going to get a 5th or 6th seed in the tough West, and Kobe is playing some of the best ball he has ever played. AI has gotten out of the first round once since his Finals run. They can all play D? Umm, you must be watching a different LA team. They are bunch of average at best defenders, along with a few bad defenders. And when AI went to the Finals he had DPOY in Deke among other fantastic defenders at all positions. There is no way in hell AI is better than Kobe right now or for career. He has been out of the semi's only once, while Kobe has 3 rings and been to Finals 4x. AI has missed playoffs 4x in his career. He is not the scorer, defender, rebounder, or clutch player that Kobe is. The guy has 3 rings, countless all-defensive teams, highest PPG average since the '80's, most clutch player of this era (post-MJ/Reggie of '90's), and is very well rounded with having 5-6 RPG and 5-6 APG every year. He has matured into a fantastic leader and unstoppable force on both sides of the ball. Can drop 40pts and 10asts on one end, and on other can shut down the opposing star. And at the end can hit the game winner in your face. There is no question to me he is in top 20 right now, but in order to crack top 10 he has to win a ring on his own with no Shaq and keep up what he is doing for a few more years.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Feb 8 2007, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That was the most PPG since Jordan of the '80's. The 81pt game is second highest in NBA HISTORY. He also made all defensive first team last year, and brought a crappy team to a 7th seed in the West. This year his team is likely going to get a 5th or 6th seed in the tough West, and Kobe is playing some of the best ball he has ever played. AI has gotten out of the first round once since his Finals run.Okay I know that still does not make him top 15-20 right now. And he has help Odom is having a crazy year except the injurys. Bynum is way better then Sammy D he does not hurt the team like Sammy did. And your guys play better D on the Sixers except Iggy, and Ollie no one really played D. Even Sammy was all over the place and late all the time. Parker is also helping more then Ollie helped AI.They can all play D? Umm, you must be watching a different LA team. They are bunch of average at best defenders, along with a few bad defenders. And when AI went to the Finals he had DPOY in Deke among other fantastic defenders at all positions. There is no way in hell AI is better than Kobe right now or for career. He has been out of the semi's only once, while Kobe has 3 rings and been to Finals 4x. AI has missed playoffs 4x in his career. He is not the scorer, defender, rebounder, or clutch player that Kobe is. The guy has 3 rings, countless all-defensive teams, highest PPG average since the '80's, most clutch player of this era (post-MJ/Reggie of '90's), and is very well rounded with having 5-6 RPG and 5-6 APG every year. He has matured into a fantastic leader and unstoppable force on both sides of the ball. Can drop 40pts and 10asts on one end, and on other can shut down the opposing star. And at the end can hit the game winner in your face. Umm exactly when he went to the finals. And he has not had great D guys around him after. For career I never said he will be. For now he is better then Kobe. Kobe has not done much by him self like AI. Except the titles he won with Shaq Kobe is not YET better then AI. AI has done more with A LOT less. Again Kobe with Shaq let's wait until he does something by him self like that like AI has done then talk. Aactually AI is the better scorer he is only behind MJ+ for get who for PPG his carrer. On D yes I agree Kobe is better. Rebounder when you count the size Kobe should be way better like I said. Kobe I can agree clutch the size also helps. OMG stop with the rings Kobe him self has 0 you mean that is how many he had with Shaq. AI got 3rd ALL TIME scoring per game that is crazy for a guy not even 6'0. There is no question to me he is in top 20 right now, but in order to crack top 10 he has to win a ring on his own with no Shaq and keep up what he is doing for a few more years.</div>He is not top 20 right now man WOW I am young and yet I know that you are for getting some of the all timers probably when you say this. He is top 25 right now okay I can agree with that not no 20.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Serge @ Feb 8 2007, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is not top 20 right now man WOW I am young and yet I know that you are for getting some of the all timers probably when you say this. He is top 25 right now okay I can agree with that not no 20.</div>Name 20 players that are better than him...
I don't have time for that, but clearly Kobe is not no top 20 right now. Just go back and think your selfs and you will see that. Start to write players down for your self and you will see there are 20 in front of Kobe easy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Serge @ Feb 8 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't have time for that, but clearly Kobe is not no top 20 right now. Just go back and think your selfs and you will see that. Start to write players down for your self and you will see there are 20 in front of Kobe easy.</div>You say it's so easy to name 20 and then you say you don't have the time to name 20
For my answer: Read EVERY post from Nitro1118. He nailed it.BTW:Bill Russell is NOT better than MJ. Championships are misleading. If one man could win it alone, Wilt would have 14 (one for every season of his career) but that's not true. Russell had some of the greatest teammates EVER by his side. Jordan was no different. Please STOP judging players based on what their TEAMS accomplished and look at them as what they are: Basketball players.
Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson....Thats all I can think of.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Michael Bryant @ Feb 8 2007, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>BTW:Bill Russell is NOT better than MJ. Championships are misleading. If one man could win it alone, Wilt would have 14 (one for every season of his career) but that's not true. Russell had some of the greatest teammates EVER by his side. Jordan was no different. Please STOP judging players based on what their TEAMS accomplished and look at them as what they are: Basketball players.</div><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">That has to be my fav NBA quote of the year 2007 (so far).</span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Feb 9 2007, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I guess you can't name 20 Serge. I thought it was so easy to name 20 </div>Again man I am busy that is why I still don't post like I use to even though I am back.I don't have time to go back.And what is the point when people think what they think no one will end up changing there minds even if I showed you that Kobe is not top 20.And I agree people should not look at what the teams did. Then maybe AI would actually get the support he should be getting. I still say when you take away the 3 titles I don't even see Kobe being better then AI yet. Well he is now, but I mean over all carrer wise when you take out titles he got with Shaq. So no way I put him in top 20.
