Some GREAT info from Quick (What Billups investigation took place, where Dame stands with the Team)

it's also flawed thinking. the easiest way to contend is with stars-- this season is an anomaly.

Let's not forget that:
-Clippers have two of the best two-way players in the league including a top 5 player.
-Phoenix has two All-NBA caliber players and a budding all star in Ayton, and the absolute perfect complement of players. Also, if Davis were healthy, there is no way the Lakers don't beat them.
-Milwaukee has two All-NBA caliber players and the best guard defender in the league.
-Atlanta is bit flukish, does anyone believe they're for real? They caught lightning in a bottle and are only here because Ben Simmons had an unprecedented meltdown.
-Nearly every other top 10 player had an injury or had his best teammate get injured in the playoffs.

i don't like this model for team building. It's not sustainable if we want to contend-- a lot had to go right for these teams to be where they are.

Rather, I would start with Dame, put a definitive top 20 player around him with whom he has synergy (total > sum of the individual parts), someone with potential to climb into top 30 (this was supposed to be nurk), and complementary players who can be serviceable on the court at the ends of playoff games.

 

"better in return".....??...what does that mean? Portland has to trade $75 for $100 or Dame will ask out?

how would anyone know, Dame included, if a trade improved the team until a season has been played? A trade of CJ could have many moving parts. It could be something like CJ for a RoCo-level SF/PF with a much lower salary that allowed the Blazers to use their full-MLE while moving Powell into the SG role. That could be a significant upgrade overall, but the straight CJ for player X wouldn't have been for a "better talent". Just a better fit that allowed two or three other positive dominoes to fall

if the only CJ trade contemplated is CJ for an all-star that's major mismanagement

 

Based on every leak/report regarding Dame and yes a gut feeling. Dame has a high opinion of CJ, maybe not as high as Olshey, but definitely up there.

I know everyone here thinks moving McCollum for Simmons makes us better, but does it make us a contender? I don't think so, and I don't think Dame thinks so either.

Olshey's comments yesterday were eye-opening to me and made all the sense in the world. Some direct quotes

Talks a lot about Dame's confidence and Dame's feeling towards the roster. It doesn't have to be stars. Holiday wasn't an all-star last year or the year before. But it has to be meaningful.

 

Atlanta feels kind of like us a couple years ago. They had all the right cards fall on the table to get them to the Finals (potentially) but I think they get absolutely exposed by Phoenix.

 

Here's the framework for what I am saying.

Send every pick and pick swap from now to eternity to Minnesota.

 

I don't think Dame would feel much better about the roster if that happened. Just don't. Don't care if you disagree, it's just how I'm reading the tea leaves from everything that's happened since we got eliminated.

Think we need to push all our future firsts on the table to add to this current group. Its not just trading CJ. Trading CJ can be part of it for sure.

2022 first, 2023 swap, 2024 first, 2025 swap, 2026 first. That's super valuable, especially the later picks. I don't care who tells you otherwise.

That's our package. Now go out and find someone willing to make that deal.

 

I wish we would have fired Stotts a couple years ago and hired Chauncey because I have always been curious what a new coach/new system could do with Dame and CJ.... but the time is up. Dame is 31. And Neil traded GTJ for Norm. I'm not convinced Norm comes back as a small forward. It didn't have great results.

 

Interesting, but how many picks go to who?

Also Collins can't be traded unless it's a S&T. Who is going to want someone that can't play next season? I think just cut the Wizards out, move Nurk to Toronto. Figure out the pick situation. Most will go to Toronto, but I don't think Philly does a straight swap, so it's hard.

 

pretty much aligned with what I was thinking too, but I don't like the Siakam-Simmons fit. Pascal needs a lot of space for his spin moves and Ben would occupy that same area. I would do anything and everything possible to put Dame together with Simmons and Towns instead. The value difference can't be much between KAT and Siakam.

 

Only problem I see there is Zach is a free agent and I don't think DJJ will be opting in.

 

Atlanta- star point guard surrounded by solid role players with no ego that most importantly accepted their roles.

So two teams with a similar formula got to the conference finals in a span of a couple years. That doesn’t sound like an anomaly or fluke to me.

 

Your take is very possibly correct, however....

This is Absolute Madness for a small market team. It's completely amazing that people on here bitch about Olshey being an idiot because Nicholson's contract is still on our books, but wants to destroy any real possibility for improving the roster for 5 or 6 years into the future? Anthony Davis is not walking through that door.

Let me spell it out. We can only improve the team by:
Trades, Draft, Free Agency

We're a small market team, we DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO FREE AGENCY.
Trading 3 draft picks + 2 draft swaps means we don't have access to the draft.
So, all we have are trades... but one of the biggest assets used in trades are draft picks, which we won't have, so our ability to trade truly diminished.

Who is this player that we'd be getting. Well, Milwaukee just used that to get Jrue Holiday. Friends, we are more than a Jrue Holiday away from a championship.

It is actually better to trade Lillard to a big market team than to do mortgage our future.

 

The problem with these deals is where do the picks go? I really don't think Philly does Simmons for McCollum straight up, so at least one pick must go to them.

Nurk, Covington, Simons, Little and 2 firsts/2 swaps for Towns seems like fair value? But is Minny ready to move on from Towns? And if they are, Nurk and RoCo don't really have much value to them.

 

Totally agree with all of this. This is definitely the internal dilemma with the FO. We have heard reports that suggest the FO and Dame are in conflict. Would not be surprised if this was the number 1 reason. Dame wants to push all the chips in, Olshey and the FO are clearly hesitant.

Also, I am not saying that I PERSONALLY would make that type of deal. I'm saying that's what will make Dame happy. If you stick to your guns, make some changes regarding the periphery of the roster, maybe move some guys for better fits, go ahead and do that. I guarantee you Dame will not be happy, and if we start losing expect the rumblings to get louder and for him to ask for a trade.

 

I have seen quite a few players turn down money to go out and get more years. If he ops out now, he can sell it as "Stotts was a moron. See, he was fired." And maybe get a decent multi-year contract. But if he doesn't opt out, and the same thing happens with Billups, that could really kill his value.

 

it's tricky for sure, but getting the better end of trades is the only way to move the needle here. Far-fetched i realize, but that's why I said we don't really have the avenues to climb to contender status.

Losing Collins again hurts us more than we realize right now as well-- he coulda been either a serviceable center or a moveable contract, now he's neither.

The key now will be to retain Powell and Jones. We need to have those contracts on the books to be able to move later.

 

I don't think the ESPN trade machine has moved into the 21-22 season yet.

You should use the fanspo trade machine. You can select next season AND include picks.

https://fanspo.com/nba/trade-machine