The voters should change their decision to Kobe or Dirk if the Suns get eliminated in the first round. What good is an MVP trophy if you can't get it in front of your own fans.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, you're ridiculously arrogant for a n00b. Back to the point though. The fact that they improved shows that Kobe's surrounding cast isn't as crappy as you keep describing. If they were that much worse than the Suns', than they wouldn't have been able to function so well within Jackson's offense. The offense doesn't simply turn crappy players into productive ones.</div> Haha, are you kidding with me or you seriously think Kobe's supporting cast is better than or equal to the Suns? Seriously, these guys are NBA players so of course they must have some talent, but to put them in the same level of talent with the Suns is absolutely unthinkable. They got the NBA's most improving player, what do the Lakers have? Actually the offense does turn crappy players into productive. The triangle is meant to help spreading the floor, thus creating easy shot for those role players, and sharing the ball is the key in the triangle offense. Smush, Odom, Kwame, these guys are benefiting from the triangle offense simply because now they understand them more than at the beginning of the season. On the other side, the running game of the Suns' offense is actually helping guys like Barbosa, Thomas, Diaw, Marion. If you put these guys in half court offense, their offense will be very limited. If you're the GM, here is a million dollar question, would you take the Lakers' players in exchange for...let say your Suns' players? And please, stop calling people noob. That is very disrespectful and you wondering why I don't respect you. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A true basketball fan would know where to draw the line and actually think before he speaks and makes ridiculous comments while putting down others in the process. It's not the fact that you attempt to big up yourself by putting others down that makes me laugh, but the fact that you simply refuse to acknowledge Nash's importance or admit that although Kobe didn't win it, Nash is just as deserving of the award. A true Laker fan would be able to give Nash his props, just ask Shape </div> That is very laughable, I didn't credit Nash's important? Do you even know what my point is? I didn't say Nash doesn't deserve the MVP, but there are other guys (especially KOBE) who are more deserving of the award than he is. He got 1 last year, I had no problem with that. I even thought he was the best player last year, so the MVP definitely should go to him. But this year, with the way Kobe is playing? With the way the Lakers are playing? With the way Kobe exceeds the hater's expectation? A true Lakers fan actually will fight for the right person to win the MVP. If you're going to throw at me with this stuff again, please read my post 10x time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What a ridiculous thing to assume. So, can't he just say to you that the only reason you picked Kobe was cause you're a Lakers fan?? You're thought process bafffles me. By the way, I'm Canadian, and I'm a Lakers fan, I don't know how exactly you define a "true Lakers fan" or whether or not I am one, but you're definetly not one in my eyes because of your sheer ignorance on topics you obviously don't know much about. If being a "true Lakers fan" means promoting ignorance and making the rest of "true Laker fans" look bad, then I think you and a handful of others can continue to claim that role.</div> Now you admit you're a Canadian, that kind of telling you're somewhat bs in your picking. Why didn't you pick Dirk? Is it because he's a Germany? And no I picked Kobe because I think he deserves it more than anyone in this league. He is carrying his team on his back throughout the season, he can’t take a break! Last year, Kobe is a non-factor, I have no argument there, but this year is totally different. I don't even care if you thinking I'm a true Lakers fan or not, only I know what a fan I am. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just because people didn't think Lakers would win didn't mean they were haters, get that through your head. Phoenix was the logical choice at the beginning of the series, hence why people picked them.</div> There is a huge difference between a Lakers' hater and an unbiased person. I don’t have a problem with people picking the Phoenix winning the series. Shiet, if I’m an expert, I would put my money on the Phoenix to win too because that’s common sense, underdog teams usually lost. However these experts are giving the Lakers NO CHANCE (do you understand 000%?). Only Grey Anthony and Mark Jackson actually giving the Lakers a chance, and that’s what I respected about them. They’re unbiased expert and thinking before they say something unlike many experts who never play the game and thought they’re very intelligent in basketball. You don’t have to think we’re going to win, but at least giving us a shot. A lot saying the Suns going to sweep the Lakers, or Lakers are lucky to win 1 or 2 game. Guess what? Kobe is making these experts look pretty dumb right now! And now you thinking why a lot of Lakers’ fans are calling these guys are haters? Well, that is WHY! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe doesnt get credit, what does that have to do with being a LAKERS fan?? Kobe is a person, Lakers are a team, I thought you of all people would be aware of that. By the way, I do understand what you're talking about, but putting others down just because Kobe is tasting sucess isn't the smartest thing to do. I want Kobe and the Lakers to suceed as well (I specifically wanna see Lakers keep winning with Kobe sharing the ball) because this whole series has felt surreal to me so far. But atleast I respect other's opinions. Once again: Grow up, dude.</div> I can honestly tell you that you will find a very small percentage of people thinking Team’s first, Player’s second. I grow up watching MJ and Kobe playing, which explained why I’m a Lakers’ fan. Also, do you understand that there is a CHANCE that Kobe will never win an MVP when his career is over? That is pretty scary to think about when talking about how great Kobe is. I careless if Nash or others win the MVP, but at least be a little fair in their argument who is the real MVP this season. And cut the crap about the MVP should be at least a top seed in the conference. You can’t expect a player with a bad supporting casts with limited talent to be in a position to win their division. It just won’t happen that way and I hope people realize that. The most frustrating thing I noticed is how ppl taking Kobe’s outside personal conflict and his personality into account when it comes to MVP voting. It was evidence by him being 4th in the ballot. I bet you at least 30% of the sportswriters voting Kobe low in their ballot got nothing to do with basketball, but instead, of what he is. Seriously, I don’t expect Kobe to win it but at least being 2nd will demonstrate and satisfy us for being a Kobe’s fan. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, you're so biased and ignorant, it makes me laugh.</div>And don’t expect me to respect others when they showing no respect for my post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha, are you kidding with me or you seriously think Kobe's supporting cast is better than or equal to the Suns? Seriously, these guys are NBA players so of course they must have some talent, but to put them in the same level of talent with the Suns is absolutely unthinkable. They got the NBA's most improving player, what do the Lakers have? Actually the offense does turn crappy players into productive. The triangle is meant to help spreading the floor, thus creating easy shot for those role players, and sharing the ball is the key in the triangle offense. Smush, Odom, Kwame, these guys are benefiting from the triangle offense simply because now they understand them more than at the beginning of the season. On the other side, the running game of the Suns' offense is actually helping guys like Barbosa, Thomas, Diaw, Marion. If you put these guys in half court offense, their offense will be very limited. If you're the GM, here is a million dollar question, would you take the Lakers' players in exchange for...let say your Suns' players? And please, stop calling people noob. That is very disrespectful and you wondering why I don't respect you. </div> Did I ever say that the Suns supporting cast was better? Read the damn post. I said that the difference between them isn't as big as people keep suggesting. And certainly not big enough to justify giving Kobe the MVP. The Lakers can credit something other than their gameplan for their series lead. Its ridiculous to suggest that only Phil Jackson's offense has improved this team. Clearly, the team was capable of dominating teams in the post and defending. The Lakers are playing their best ball right now. People that were thought to be scrubs (Kwame, Walton, etc.) are playing with intensity that wasn't shown during the season. The only question is where was this intensity and effort before the playoffs? Understanding a gameplan doesn't make players try harder and play to their potential. And look back at the last few posts. You were the first person to start being antagonistic in their post. I feel sorry for spawn for having to respond to the rest of that post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I didn't say Nash doesn't deserve the MVP, but there are other guys (especially KOBE) who are more deserving of the award than he is. </div> If you don't think Nash is undeserving of the award, regardless of if you think Kobe's more deserving or not, why are you arguing with me anyway? Nash deserves it, you agree right? So your arguement really has no foundation. Case closed. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> They got the NBA's most improving player, what do the Lakers have? </div> The Laker cast isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Case in point, if the Lakers can take 3 games away from the Suns in the playoffs, it certainly justifies that thier cast isn't as bad as originally predicted. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> But this year, with the way Kobe is playing? With the way the Lakers are playing? </div> Uh...Lakers were 45-37, Suns were 54-28 when people expected them to fall as well. Not to mention they have lost thier core from last year, and lost Amare as well. Furthermore, MVP voting is not based on how the Lakers ARE playing right now, it's based on how they played i nt regular season, which was esentially inconsistent and "7th seed-ed" basketball. They only began to improve in the closing stretch of the season. The MVP is not based on a portion of the season. If individual achievement won MVPs, AI would have won more. Though I do believe that Kobe means more to the Lakers then Nash does to the Suns, I can't really defend Kobe in the arguement as much, simply due to the wins factor. If Kobe wants to win the MVP, he has to lead his team to a higher seed in the playoffs and definetly get more wins, it's as simple as that. The fact that Nash was valueable AND led the Suns to a divison title is more important in the voting process then being valueable and winning the scoring title. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> With the way Kobe exceeds the hater's expectation? </div> Not like everyone expected Phoenix to win the NBA title without Amare. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> A true Lakers fan actually will fight for the right person to win the MVP. </div> Not really, it depends on perspective and who you believe the "right person" is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If you're going to throw at me with this stuff again, please read my post 10x time. </div> No thank you, once was enough. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Now you admit you're a Canadian, that kind of telling you're somewhat bs in your picking. </div> Your logic simply baffles me Okay...read this carefully okay? IF SOMEONE IS FROM CANADA, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY AUTOMATICALLY LIKE STEVE NASH OR ARE AUTOMATICALLY BIASED IN PICKING STEVE NASH FOR MVP. IF YOU TAKE A MINUTE AND READ MY ARGUEMENTS IN COMPARISON TO YOURS YOU WOULD REALIZE THAT WHILE I DO THINK KOBE IS DESERVING OF THE MVP, NASH JUSTIFIES HIS SELECTION TO WIN AS WELL, AND DUE TO HIS WIN COUNT, HE IS GOING TO WIN IT. YOU HAVE TO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN RATHER THEN SAYING THINGS LIKE "NASH IS THE FAKE MVP". Me being a Canadian has nothing to do with me defending Nash. If you've seen me in other threads i nthis forum, I've defended Kobe as being more deserving then Lebron and Billups in my perspective, but I can't really defend him as much when it comes to Nash because I myself know that Nash's selection is justifiable. However, do I wish for the Suns to win the series? Hell no. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why didn't you pick Dirk? Is it because he's a Germany? </div> The fact that you actually said that sentence to me, and in addtion asked me if it's "because he's A GERMANY", I will not dignify your quote with a response. I can't believe I actually typed all that up for your quote but your logic, once again, baffles me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He is carrying his team on his back throughout the season, he can’t take a break! </div> See: Allen Iverson. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Only Grey Anthony and Mark Jackson actually giving the Lakers a chance, and that’s what I respected about them </div> Actually, they picked the Lakers to WIN the series. So, in your world, if people don't expect the Lakers to win a series against a 2nd-seed team, you won't respect them? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> A lot saying the Suns going to sweep the Lakers, or Lakers are lucky to win 1 or 2 game. </div> Well, I don't know which "experts" you're specifically so angry about but the ones on ESPN mostly picked the Lakers to lose, in either 5 or 6. You said the Lakers were being given "0.00%" chance; but thats not the case. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> A lot saying the Suns going to sweep the Lakers, or Lakers are lucky to win 1 or 2 game. Guess what? Kobe is making these experts look pretty dumb right now! And now you thinking why a lot of Lakers’ fans are calling these guys are haters? </div> Okay...so because they said "Suns going to sweep the Lakers, or Lakers are lucky to win 1 or 2 games", they are haters??? Okay....in the Eastern Conference, when you were picking who would win between Chicago and Miami, who did you pick? I'm 99.99999999% sure that you believed that the Heat would win and that it would be over in 5 or 6, correct? The same logic applies to this matchup. No one expects a 7th seed to upset, so you can see why many 'experts' turned into "HATERS" by picking the Suns to win in 5. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, do you understand that there is a CHANCE that Kobe will never win an MVP when his career is over? </div> Not really, I know and am pretty confident when I say that the year that Kobe leads his team to a division title is the year that he will get MVP. I won't be surprised if he ends his career with 2 or 3 MVP'S either. He just has to make his team one of the "elite", that's all. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And cut the crap about the MVP should be at least a top seed in the conference. You can’t expect a player with a bad supporting casts with limited talent to be in a position to win their division. It just won’t happen that way and I hope people realize that. </div> Well, that's what the voting is mostly based on. If you wanna complain about that, go to the NBA offices or something cause that's reality. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The most frustrating thing I noticed is how ppl taking Kobe’s outside personal conflict and his personality into account when it comes to MVP voting. It was evidence by him being 4th in the ballot. I bet you at least 30% of the sportswriters voting Kobe low in their ballot got nothing to do with basketball, but instead, of what he is. Seriously, I don’t expect Kobe to win it but at least being 2nd will demonstrate and satisfy us for being a Kobe’s fan. </div> I actually agree with you there. I would have been satisfied if he placed second as well, for I felt he was more deserving in my own opinion, then say, Billups, Lebron or Dirk. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And don’t expect me to respect others when they showing no respect for my post. </div> How can I respect you when you were going around bashing every person that said anything remotely non-positive about the Lakers?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Did I ever say that the Suns supporting cast was better? Read the damn post. I said that the difference between them isn't as big as people keep suggesting. And certainly not big enough to justify giving Kobe the MVP. The Lakers can credit something other than their gameplan for their series lead. Its ridiculous to suggest that only Phil Jackson's offense has improved this team. Clearly, the team was capable of dominating teams in the post and defending. The Lakers are playing their best ball right now. People that were thought to be scrubs (Kwame, Walton, etc.) are playing with intensity that wasn't shown during the season. The only question is where was this intensity and effort before the playoffs? Understanding a gameplan doesn't make players try harder and play to their potential. </div> You sound like it. There is a huge difference with the Suns' lineup compare to Lakers' lineup. And you forgot 1 thing, the Lakers' total domination in the paint is due to the Suns' lacking size. KT is out, so the Lakers take advantage of it. Like I said at the beginining of the season, guys are lost in the triangle offense. There were multiple times guys running into each other on offense, and on the defensive side, opposition teams had a layup party in the paint. Now that they understand the offense better, guys know where to help on defense, how to space on offense, and the chemistry is getting extremely good right now. Guys are playing together as a unit instead of a 1-man show like during the regular season. So with that being said, understanding a gameplan does help players play to their full potential. Like I said before, certain players are fit to play in certain type of offense. Therefore the offense does help turn a player into being more productive. (ie, if Kwame Brown plays for the Suns, do you think he can keep up with the rest of the guys on offense?) Btw, you are being very inconsistent with your post. First you said the offense doesn't help turn a crappy player into a productive player, and now you're saying the offense doesn't make player play harder. I got no idea what your next arguement going to be. Sad.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash deserves it, you agree right? So your arguement really has no foundation. Case closed.</div> Nash deserves it, but I feel others deserve it more. There's a difference! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Laker cast isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Case in point, if the Lakers can take 3 games away from the Suns in the playoffs, it certainly justifies that thier cast isn't as bad as originally predicted.</div> Lakers cast is very crappy. It's the gameplan that kill the Suns. Phil outcoaching Mike is the reason the Lakers are up 3-2. And of course, without Kobe's dagger GW shot in Game 4, I'm sure you will have a different look at the Lakers' casts. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Uh...Lakers were 45-37, Suns were 54-28 when people expected them to fall as well. Not to mention they have lost thier core from last year, and lost Amare as well. Furthermore, MVP voting is not based on how the Lakers ARE playing right now, it's based on how they played i nt regular season, which was esentially inconsistent and "7th seed-ed" basketball. They only began to improve in the closing stretch of the season. The MVP is not based on a portion of the season. If individual achievement won MVPs, AI would have won more</div> Actually according by record, the Lakers are actually 6th in the West. That is pretty impressive for a team most people thought couldn't make the playoff, nor making a noise in the playoff. AI is impressive, but his team isn't in the playoff, so please don't put AI and Kobe in the same breath on this season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not like everyone expected Phoenix to win the NBA title without Amare.</div> With or without Amare, they can't win a title anyway until they proven they can play defense. With Nash, I don't think that ever going to happen. And sorry, there were more doubters on Kobe and the Lakers than Nash and the Suns. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not really, it depends on perspective and who you believe the "right person" is.</div> My Def: A "right person" for the MVP is someone who should carry his team more and exceed far more expectation. Who is more valueble to his team, Nash or Kobe? End of story. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No thank you, once was enough.</div> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to read it 10X, I meant read it 100X time, or read it until you get it into your head. Yessss <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">IF SOMEONE IS FROM CANADA, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY AUTOMATICALLY LIKE STEVE NASH OR ARE AUTOMATICALLY BIASED IN PICKING STEVE NASH FOR MVP. IF YOU TAKE A MINUTE AND READ MY ARGUEMENTS IN COMPARISON TO YOURS YOU WOULD REALIZE THAT WHILE I DO THINK KOBE IS DESERVING OF THE MVP, NASH JUSTIFIES HIS SELECTION TO WIN AS WELL, AND DUE TO HIS WIN COUNT, HE IS GOING TO WIN IT. YOU HAVE TO SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN RATHER THEN SAYING THINGS LIKE "NASH IS THE FAKE MVP". </div> Fact is 90% of Bball fans from Canada would rather rooting for Nash to win the MVP rather any other players. I hope you are in the 10% group. Well, it is a slap in the face for the media to vote their favorite guys to win MVP just to see he'll holding his trophy at home without any teammates near him. That is pretty sad for an MVP. Kobe is the people MVP whenever Nash is a media MVP. In order word, fake mvp means the same as a media MVP. We all known the NBA wouldn't go anywhere without the fans. Fan is the most important things when it comes to sport. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">See: Allen Iverson.</div> See AI what? Carries his team to a 9th seed in a weaker conference? Joking with me? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, they picked the Lakers to WIN the series. So, in your world, if people don't expect the Lakers to win a series against a 2nd-seed team, you won't respect them?</div> NO, actually I respect them because these guys actually play the game before and they do think before they say something. Others gave the Lakers no chance, no shot, no opportunity against the Suns. There is a HUGE difference between picking who's going to win and giving a chance. Man...you are funny! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I don't know which "experts" you're specifically so angry about but the ones on ESPN mostly picked the Lakers to lose, in either 5 or 6. You said the Lakers were being given "0.00%" chance; but thats not the case.</div> Tim Legler, the guy is a big time Lakers' hater, especially Kobe's hater. Whatever prediction comes out of his mouth is always wrong. And no, actually they giving the Lakers 0.1% chance to win against the Suns when they didn't realize we have the NBA best player and the NBA best coach. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay...so because they said "Suns going to sweep the Lakers, or Lakers are lucky to win 1 or 2 games", they are haters???</div> A true lakers fan wouldn't tolerate this type of nonsense prediction when we have Kobe and Phil on the team. As far as I know, when it comes to the Lakers or Kobe, there is either hater or lover. Most peoples are jealous of the Lakers beause of the rich history of the organization and the success. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay....in the Eastern Conference, when you were picking who would win between Chicago and Miami, who did you pick? I'm 99.99999999% sure that you believed that the Heat would win and that it would be over in 5 or 6, correct? The same logic applies to this matchup. No one expects a 7th seed to upset, so you can see why many 'experts' turned into "HATERS" by picking the Suns to win in 5.</div> I actually didn't predict on this one. But I had thought the Miami should've won it. Though, I do believe if the Bulls get 1 game in Miami, then they will win the serie, just like how I predict the Lakers. Honestly, I don't think the Lakers can beat the Suns, but with Kobe and Phil on the Lakers, I have hope and know that if Kobe can get himself hot or his teammate steps up, it will be a long serie to battle. Listen again please, they pick the Lakers without giving any chances. Most of them even said the Lakers would be lucky to get 1 wins. Ah what? 1 win for Kobe and Phil. Do these guys know that Phil never lose in the 1st round? If they're not haters, I don't know what they are. Like I said, people hate the Lakers to win every years. I can totally understand jealousy can make a person ignorance. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not really, I know and am pretty confident when I say that the year that Kobe leads his team to a division title is the year that he will get MVP. I won't be surprised if he ends his career with 2 or 3 MVP'S either. He just has to make his team one of the "elite", that's all.</div> If that happen...he will need to average 40ppg and winning 60 games for the Lakers. People will always try to find ways to discredit Kobe. I predict next year: Kobe won't get the MVP because has Lamar Odom and he's too good, or the Lakers' casts are better than last year. In the haters' mind, they can never get satisfy with Kobe's performance and the Lakers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, that's what the voting is mostly based on. If you wanna complain about that, go to the NBA offices or something cause that's reality.</div> Im not complaining, I'm expressing my concern for Kobe and the biased voters. If you call give me the NBA offices phone number, that would be cool. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How can I respect you when you were going around bashing every person that said anything remotely non-positive about the Lakers?</div> I'm proud to go around and protect my Lakers and Kobe from any biased commend on them. Most of them don't watch enough Lakers games and already jump into conclusion that Kobe scores too much, not a team player, this n that. But they never realized what he need to do for the team to get to the playoff. You just need to sit back and relax, let a true Lakers fan argue for his team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> What a ridiculous thing to assume. So, can't he just say to you that the only reason you picked Kobe was cause you're a Lakers fan?? You're thought process bafffles me.</div> Not to mention Steve Nash actually comes from South Africa.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And of course, without Kobe's dagger GW shot in Game 4, I'm sure you will have a different look at the Lakers' casts. </div> Actually, it was his cast that made it possible for him to hit that dagger in the first place. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> AI is impressive, but his team isn't in the playoff, so please don't put AI and Kobe in the same breath on this season </div> Dude, do you even read my posts? I meant AI should have won more over the course of his career because there was plenty of times when AI had amazing individual statistics and led his team into the playoffs as well, but he did not win it until 2001 when his team was tied or 2nd (cant remember) for the best record in the league. In order for Kobe to win MVP, he has to do better then 7th seed, regardless of individual accomplishments or how they surpassed expectations by making the playoffs. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> A "right person" for the MVP is someone who should carry his team more and exceed far more expectation. </div> Actually, according to your defintion, Steve Nash can still be justified as MVP. He carries and leads this Suns team and he led them to 54 wins and a pacific division title, which was not expected from them without Amare and plaenty of new players. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to read it 10X, I meant read it 100X time, or read it until you get it into your head. Yessss </div> I got it the first time you tried to prove your points, but your logic behind your points still continue to baffle me nonetheless <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Fact is 90% of Bball fans from Canada would rather rooting for Nash to win the MVP rather any other players. I hope you are in the 10% group </div> Really? Where did you get those facts from? ballfansincanada.com?? Nice generalization. In fact, let me make a generilzation right now too. 90% of Laker fans are so ridicuously arrogant that they disregard any opposing player, thier team or any of thier fans in comparison to thier own. They also believe that due to thier history and tradtion, they have the right to say whatever they feel like. True? Exactly. Stop generalizing about Canadians. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well, it is a slap in the face for the media to vote their favorite guys to win MVP just to see he'll holding his trophy at home without any teammates near him </div> The series is 3-2, when it's over you may say that. I believe the Lakers will win as well but you never know. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> See AI what? Carries his team to a 9th seed in a weaker conference? Joking with me? </div> If you had read my previous post, it was in regards to your "carrying a team without a break" speech. Allen Iverson had done that in Philly for quite a while. Yes, these last 2 seasons the Sixers have fallen even more but AI's Sixers have had many good teams in the past that mostly survived because of Iverson during the regular season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Man...you are funny! </div> Ask any non-Lakers fan in here whose making more logical arguements with a certain amount of backbone, and I'm sure "90%" of them will choose me Oh wait...if they say I'm making stronger arguements then you, they must be certified "Laker Haters" as well, correct? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Do these guys know that Phil never lose in the 1st round? If they're not haters, I don't know what they are. </div> See: 7th seed vs. 2nd seed favorability discussion from my previous post. Can't be bothered trying to explain to you why people picked the Suns. Either you get me or you don't. Picking the Lakers to have gotten swept or won 1 or 2 games doesn't mean their haters. Tim Legler...who gives a rat's ass what Tim Legler says? Let him talk. The Lakers are winning aren't they? Isn't that what matters? If "experts" didn't pick the Lakers to win the series it does not mean that THEY ARE 'HATERS"!!! What you should be more concerned about is the fact that Lakers have the last laugh so far. Even if they lose this series, the fact that they took 3 games from the Suns with such a young and inexperienced team is an accomplishment in itself. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Like I said, people hate the Lakers to win every years. I can totally understand jealousy can make a person ignorance. </div> Your sentence does not make sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm proud to go around and protect my Lakers and Kobe from any biased commend on them. </div> Your response to protecting people from making "biased" comments o nthe Lakers is to reply with even more biased comments and views and disregard thier whole arguement if it's not in favor of the Lakers?? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You just need to sit back and relax, let a true Lakers fan argue for his team. </div> Okayyy...but you seem to be by yourself in this one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">You sound like it. There is a huge difference with the Suns' lineup compare to Lakers' lineup. And you forgot 1 thing, the Lakers' total domination in the paint is due to the Suns' lacking size. KT is out, so the Lakers take advantage of it. Like I said at the beginining of the season, guys are lost in the triangle offense. There were multiple times guys running into each other on offense, and on the defensive side, opposition teams had a layup party in the paint. Now that they understand the offense better, guys know where to help on defense, how to space on offense, and the chemistry is getting extremely good right now. Guys are playing together as a unit instead of a 1-man show like during the regular season. So with that being said, understanding a gameplan does help players play to their full potential. Like I said before, certain players are fit to play in certain type of offense. Therefore the offense does help turn a player into being more productive. (ie, if Kwame Brown plays for the Suns, do you think he can keep up with the rest of the guys on offense?) Btw, you are being very inconsistent with your post. First you said the offense doesn't help turn a crappy player into a productive player, and now you're saying the offense doesn't make player play harder. I got no idea what your next arguement going to be. Sad....</div> How do I sound like it? If you actually read what you're arguing against, this wouldn't even be an issue. I mean, I've taken the time to read through your posts when I respond, despite the awful grammar. The least you could do is return the favour. I actually said: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">The fact that they improved shows that Kobe's surrounding cast isn't as crappy as you keep describing. If they were that much worse than the Suns', than they wouldn't have been able to function so well within Jackson's offense.</div> Where in there, did I say that the Lakers cast is better than the Suns? I just said the gap between them isn't as big as people keep saying. The Suns players are a little worse and the Lakers are a little better. LA has worse players, but they aren't so bad that it justifies giving Kobe the MVP for a 7th seed. Since when has the MVP award rewarded mediocrity? Of course the Suns lack size. Don't you consider that a distinct disadvantage? The fact that Nash has lead a team that has been undersized all year to a division title is definitely worthy of the MVP. You said: "There were multiple times guys running into each other on offense, and on the defensive side, opposition teams had a layup party in the paint." But this makes absolutely no sense. How does learning an offense make you a better defender? I mean really. And throughout this explanation of the player's development and understanding of the system, you conspicuously left out Kobe. You don't think that the reason this team took so ridiculously long to gel is because Kobe was putting up 50 shots in some games? I mean, since when has a team needed an entire season to understand a gameplan? They're not idiots. You have acknowledge the disadvantages of Kobe's offensive explosions as well. I mean, he did what he had to for a win, but those impressive 50, 60, 70 point performances did not help the team gain chemistry. Thats not an inconsistent argument, they're both related. A player's performance is dictated by how hard he works. Now I gave credit to the gameplan, it has helped the players improve. But I said it was foolish to suggest that the improvement is solely based on the gameplan. Things like work ethic, assertiveness, and confidence don't all come from the triangle offense. And players like Kwame and Odom only began to show that in the last 10 games of the season. But then again, its easy to misinterpret that if you don't read the post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, you're so biased and ignorant, it makes me laugh. A true basketball fan would know where to draw the line and actually think before he speaks and makes ridiculous comments while putting down others in the process. It's not the fact that you attempt to big up yourself by putting others down that makes me laugh, but the fact that you simply refuse to acknowledge Nash's importance or admit that although Kobe didn't win it, Nash is just as deserving of the award. </div> That has to be the biggest hypocritical post I have seen yet. One member calling another biased, ignorant, not a true basketball fan, putting others down, disrespecting others.... Isn't that exactly what your doing in your post? That's pretty funny. You seem to have somewhat of an understanding of basketball and it would be a shame to see another member temporarly banned.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lostmyluggage:</div><div class="quote_post">That has to be the biggest hypocritical post I have seen yet. One member calling another biased, ignorant, not a true basketball fan, putting others down, disrespecting others.... Isn't that exactly what your doing in your post? That's pretty funny.</div> Read the entire exchange of posts. spawn didn't start out that way. kobe4life's accusations have just been that ridiculous.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That has to be the biggest hypocritical post I have seen yet. One member calling another biased, ignorant, not a true basketball fan, putting others down, disrespecting others.... Isn't that exactly what your doing in your post? That's pretty funny. You seem to have somewhat of an understanding of basketball and it would be a shame to see another member temporarly banned. </div> Dude, when a poster calls another poster lame, I make it my own responsiblity to tell him that he's being disrespectful. It was not until he responded to my comments in his own arrogant manner that I decided that enough was enough and use his own style of posting against him as well. I apologize for retaliating but I simply could not help it. Furthermore, his arguements were once that I disagreed with, so I let my opinion be heard. I never said he wasn't a true basketball fan, I said to him, in response to his "a true lakers fan is..." so and so comment TOWARDS ME specifically, that if he was a true basketball fan, as opposed to a "true Laker fan", he would be able to see both sides of the coin. Thus, since he is apperently only a Kobe/Lakers fan, he simply kept putting down Nash and any of his suporters earlier in regards to THIS YEARS MVP race which is what got me started in the first place. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> putting others down, disrespecting others.... Isn't that exactly what your doing in your post? </div> I put him down only. I have yet to put down any other member in this board. He on the other hand, disrespectful SEVERAL members, including some repectful members of this board as well. When you call posters "lame" and "idiots" then you really need to be disciplined in a more strict manner. The more people try to respond to his posts in a decent manner, the more he seems to try to call them out and sound even more arrogant in his posts. Mind you, I'm not a moderator but honestly, I don't put up with people putting others down in real life, and I certainly won't tolerate it here. I realize it's not my job, but the reason I started going back and forth with him was so that I could out-debate him on this topic and I don't care how long it takes, until this thread dies, I will keep arguing my side of the coin. And I guess me telling him to stop generalizing, asking him if he reads my posts, and saying that his logic baffles me is "putting him down". I never called him anything, I never claimed that he doesn't know basketball. I just want him to see both sides of the coin rather then force his views down. I agree on many of his points as well, but I still believe in mine nonetheless. It is possible to be in the gray area where you believe in your own opinions yet still agree with your opposition. And I guess my rudest comment was probably: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ask any non-Lakers fan in here whose making more logical arguements with a certain amount of backbone, and I'm sure "90%" of them will choose me Oh wait...if they say I'm making stronger arguements then you, they must be certified "Laker Haters" as well, correct? </div> Yes I said this, but it was regards to comments he made about me as well. I apologize to him if I hurt his feelings? But it was just a smart-ass reply to a smart-ass comment made by him. Sorry about the back and forth arguements Mods (if you're reading) but I'm not backing down of this one. It's not even really a case of pride or whatever, I just feel like debating him and dissecting his posts so I can prove his arguements wrong. Studying for law school, so might as well argue, right?
I went back and re-read everything. Sorry about saying you post was hypocritical. I was wrong. You make some good points and some day you'll be one hell of a lawyer.
