Politics Speaker of the house...

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Jan 3, 2023.

  1. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    Some of you can say politics doesn't matter but it sure mattered to me when Extreme Court declared women nothing more than incubators. And it will matter if they decide I am an inferior order of being not entitled to civil rights, as Thomas wants.

    All of which happened as a result of Moscow Mitch blocking Obama nominee, electoral college giving presidency twice in this century to loser of popular vote and rushing Cost Hanger through in 3 weeks.
     
  2. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    How is our political system better than Scandinavian or Nordic systems?
     
  3. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  4. twobullz

    twobullz Well-Known Member

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  5. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    And I thought they were worried about funding Social Security.....if they do this I want all my taxes refunded from before my retirement. We all didn't pay into the system to have the plug pulled on us when it was our turn to retire! Fuck the GOP!!! Oh and pay politicians minimum wage with no health insurance benefits while you're at it...let them get a 30 cent COLA once a year.
     
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  6. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    87K new IRS agents? I don't care what isle you're in, know way we need that many new IRS agents. Defund the IRS!
     
  7. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    more like, tax the rich for a change. .I don't know about 87k new agents but the agents they have now let Trump slip between the cracks and he was a high profile as you could be. Justice has not been served.
     
  8. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    ‘87,000 IRS agents’ is the zombie falsehood setting the House agenda
    The Facts
    Back in August, we first criticized what McCarthy called “the Democrats’ new army of 87,000 IRS agents,” saying the figure was wildly exaggerated.

    The figure had been plucked from a Treasury report released in May 2021 about how the administration hoped to address the “tax gap” — the difference between what is owed to the government and what is actually paid. That difference was thought to be at least $381 billion a year, with most of it due to underreporting of income, according to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.

    One major problem is that the IRS does not have enough experienced revenue agents who can tackle complex tax returns. In a May report last year, the Government Accountability Office said audit rates have declined dramatically for the super rich. In 2010, more than 21 percent of tax returns reporting more than $10 million in income were audited — and that dropped to 3.9 percent by 2019, the GAO said.

    On Page 16 of the Treasury report, a chart shows that almost $80 billion in new resources over 10 years would allow for the hiring of 86,852 full-time employees in the next decade.

    When Congress passed a bill last year with something close to that amount of money, Republicans began to claim that all these new employees were “agents.”

    The Biden administration has not released its strategic plan about how it would use the money, but a little over half is targeted for enforcement. In other words, many would not be “agents” — but employees hired to improve information technology and customer service.

    The IRS has about 79,000 employees, down from about 95,000 in fiscal year 2012. But the new hiring does not mean the agency’s staff will double, as some Republicans claimed during debate on the legislation. The Congressional Budget Office assumes, absent additional funding, IRS staffing would keep falling to about 60,000 in 10 years, so the funding would allow a doubling from that base, or an increase of 50 percent from today’s levels.

    But Treasury officials say that because of attrition, after 10 years of increasing spending, the size of the agency should grow only 25 to 30 percent when the hiring burst is completed. In congressional testimony in 2021, IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said the agency will need to “replace more than 50,000 workers lost through attrition over the next six years.”

    Currently, only about 10,000 IRS employees, or about 13 percent of the total staff, are “agents,” who audit tax filings or investigate tax crimes. According to the GAO, “it takes 4 to 5 years to train a new hire to become an experienced senior or expert revenue officer.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...nts-is-zombie-falsehood-setting-house-agenda/
     
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  9. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Fact-Checking the Misleading Claim About 87,000 Tax Agents
    The claim, which has been debunked numerous times, has resurged ahead of the midterm elections. Here’s why it’s still wrong.

    As the midterm campaigns come to a close, Republican lawmakers are seizing on misleading claims warning that Democrats are recruiting an army of tax auditors, finding new resonance in an assertion debunked months ago.

    The assertion began to circulate when President Biden first outlined a wide-ranging social spending plan last fall. A whittled-down version of that plan, known as the Inflation Reduction Act, was enacted this summer, fueling a new wave of attacks that have gained momentum as the elections neared.

    That law provides the Internal Revenue Service with nearly $80 billion in funding, including $45.6 billion for enforcement activities. But the suggestion that this would amount to 87,000 additional tax collectors scrutinizing the financial filings of middle-class Americans is wrong.

    Here’s a fact check.

    WHAT WAS SAID

    “When House Republicans earn the majority, we will STOP Biden’s army of 87,000 IRS agents hired to audit hardworking American families and small businesses.”
    — Representative Elise Stefanik, Republican of New York, in a tweet in November.

    a May 2021 estimate from the Treasury Department of the total number of employees — not just auditors — the I.R.S. proposes to hire over the next 10 years with funding requested by Mr. Biden. And while the I.R.S. plans to conduct more audits, wealthy Americans and businesses will bear the brunt of that scrutiny, not, as Republicans have suggested, working families.

    Among the I.R.S.’s work force of about 79,000 employees, 10,000 are actually agents. (Of those, 8,000 are revenue agents who audit tax filings and 2,000 are special agents who investigate potential tax crimes.) In fact, the two most common I.R.S. jobs have little to do with tax auditing or investigations: about 13,000 are customer service representatives who answer taxpayer phone calls and 10,000 are seasonal employees who file mail or transcribe data. Other jobs include lawyers, examiners, technicians and appeals officers.

    The additional funding for to the I.R.S. will allow the agency to modernize its infrastructure and replace an aging work force, and it is unclear just how many full-time employees or agents will be hired in the next decade, Treasury Department officials said. The majority of those new employees will replace the 52,000 expected to retire in the near future, the officials said, and many will focus on customer service and updating the agency’s technology infrastructure — not investigating the finances of ordinary Americans.



    In other words, the funding will enable the I.R.S. to increase its work force over the next 10 years to 113,000 employees. That is about the same number of workers it employed annually in the early 1990s.

    In a September speech, Janet Yellen, the Treasury secretary, outlined some of that hiring — an additional 5,000 customer service representatives and fully staffing the agency’s taxpayer assistance centers — and committed to not raise audit rates for households making under $400,000 a year.

    Using historical audit rates, House Republicans estimated this summer that the additional funding will correspond to 710,000 new audits for taxpayers making $75,000 or less — as Ms. Smiley, the Republican candidate for Senate in Washington State, tweeted. But those calculations ignore the proportional effect on each income bracket.

    In the past decade, tax audit rates have fallen most starkly for higher income earners, which the I.R.S. attributes to diminished resources and therefore its inability to retain specialized auditors needed to examine the filings of the wealthy.

    Increasing funding for the I.R.S., the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said in September 2021, would address those needs and result in increased audit rates for everyone, particularly for high-income earners.

    The I.R.S. examined 1.4 million individual income tax returns in 2010, about 1 percent of the total number filed. In 2018, the latest year with available data when Republicans started making these claims, audits decreased to 370,000, or about 0.2 percent.

    The budget office estimated increasing I.R.S. funding would return enforcement to its 2010 levels. Doing so would result in about 1.2 million more audits; of those, 583,000 would target people making less than $75,000.

    statement in support of the law released this summer, three former I.R.S. commissioners appointed by Republican and Democratic presidents disputed claims about increased scrutiny. The law would add “the capacity to enforce the tax laws against sophisticated taxpayers who today evade their tax obligations freely,” they said, “because they know that the I.R.S. lacks the tools it needs to pursue them.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/06/us/politics/irs-agents-fact-check.html
     
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  10. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    No, Those 87,000 New IRS Agents Are Not about to Break Down Your Door

    We have all recently heard that the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is hiring 87,000 new agents and have seen the various reactions to this news. As tax attorneys, we have received more than our fair share of ice-breaker comments on what this means for us and how busy we will be. What this doesn’t mean is that 87,000 IRS agents are going to come break down your door and force you to allocate for all of your Venmo accounts on the spot. Ordinary taxpayers have no idea what actually goes into hiring a single IRS agent, let alone 87,000 agents over multiple years to try to reduce the labor backlog.

    Most people think that hiring 87,000 IRS agents is a large amount and that they will be pumping out business and individual audits at an unprecedented speed. What most people do not understand is that this 87,000 has to be spread across hundreds of IRS departments, meaning 87,000 is a small number for a federal agency that has been severely understaffed for years. It can take, on average, two years for an auditor or collection agent to be released into the wild and have taxpayer contact; most of the time, that individual will not make it through the rigorous two training program, which means that only a fraction of those 87,000 will make it to the finish line.

    Regardless of the above commentary, it really will be a great move for the IRS to hire all these individuals regardless of whether they adequately plug all the staffing holes at the IRS. Further, owing to the nature of the staff shortage and the recent ramp-up of audits of top earners, this will hopefully bring some balance to the individuals and businesses flying under the radar because there is no ability for the IRS even to audit a fraction of the taxpayers in the United States. If the IRS can pull off its hiring spree, it is projected to collect an additional $10 billion or more in revenue.

    The other hurdle that the IRS will face outside of employee retention is actually being able to hire that many new faces. The IRS has an intense and laborious hiring process that is neither quick nor efficient. The original bill granting the IRS the additional funds to beef up its labor force contained important language (untimely removed from the final bill) that would have allowed the IRS to fast-track the hiring process instead of relying on the current process. The IRS has 25,000 feweremployees than it did two decades ago, and not only does it need to fast-track its human resources process, but it also needs to be competitive in the pay and benefits it offers in this tight job market.

    The IRS Taxpayer Advocate Service (TAS) releases a yearly report on how efficient the IRS has been at handling taxpayer matters. In 2019 TAS had set a goal of filling vacant positions within 80 days, but in reality, it was taking 120 days, given that a worldwide pandemic overturned life as we know it. The IRS had planned to hire 5,500 individuals for tax year 2022, but only 3,400 were hired.

    The exact outcome and impact of hiring 87,000 individuals are still unknown, and it will be interesting to see if it leads to the IRS and other government agencies realizing that they need to increase IRS hiring numbers (beyond their current employment) and overall budget to allow this federal agency to run anywhere near efficiently and effectively—not only for itself but for all U.S. taxpayers.

    https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...-new-irs-agents-are-not-break-down-your-door/
     
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  11. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    I never meant to say that politics don't matter....I'm just saying it's a big show. We just had a Nazi in the whitehouse for 4 years. Other than all the daily barrage of hate thrown around and other BS, my family's life is still pretty much the same as far as I can tell that it was before he showed up. How much does this shit REALLY impact us?
     
  12. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Trump has to be prosecuted but to me that doesn't justify 87K new agents. Just my opinion.
     
  13. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

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    Is it the same? You sure it hasn't just gradually changed to where you don't notice it. Homeless and drug issues affect us all but maybe not in your living room. Half the country no longer has abortion access. Inflation is a crisis. A million people dead from Covid. Medical expenses and college tuition are both up significantly. Politics may not have caused all those issues but it directly affected them and how we dealt with them.
     
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  14. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Im not opposed to increasing employees if it indeed bring about efficiency and effectiveness, but when I hear 87k for any government agency I get skeptical, but that just me.
    The rich should pay more in taxes agreed, but we need to also watch cost of government.
     
  15. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Right now I would trade an Oregon Income tax for a sales tax straight across. I can't imagine anyone not being in favor of that unless the sales tax was some crazy absurd number.
     
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  16. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    But isn't shit always changing? You could make a list of how things have changed from the day you were born to now....we all can right? Or 5 years ago to today. Shit gets worse, shit gets better...that's life right? I sometimes ask myself why I don't pay attention to this type of stuff more, then I realize, why? Gas is gonna go up and I'll pay more. You brought up cost of college tuition....doesn't that go up regardless of who the politicians are? Real estate prices go up....the value of my homes fluctuates. This dude who we are all talking about isn't impacting that is he? I'm asking, because I'm very naive when it comes to politics.
     
  17. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    During Trump presidency, million dead of Covid. Attempted insurrection. Muslim ban. Millions wasted on vanity wall Mexico was going to pay for. Hundreds of extreme right unqualified judges with lifetime appointments. And the extreme coarsening of public life so that for a large section of the population being the absolute worst, rudest, nastiest, most vicious you can is laudable.
     
  18. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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  19. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    I'm not asking if politicians are horrible people. I'm saying does it truly impact me and my family's life. My family is FROM Mexico and you mention "millions wasted on the wall" even though I think it has been more....that truly hasn't impacted our daily lives. The insurrection as horrible and despicable as it was, hasn't impacted my family's daily routine. Somebody see what I'm saying?
     
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  20. donkiez

    donkiez Well-Known Member

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    Specifically the president has much less affect on all those things than they get credit for, and that is by design because we don't want our president to be to powerful. Some of those examples are caused by the government and some are just dealt with by the government. It's hard to go back in time and predict how someone else would do things and what effect that might have on the situation, because we only have one reality that we live. Covid response is probably the best example to illustrate my point, I think most people agree that the way the Trump admin handled things cost a lot of people their lives and if someone else was in charge things probably would have gone much better. But on a broader scale the Trump admin also prioritized tax cuts instead of other issues that could have provided us relief, like health care reform or education reform, infrastructure week was a running joke in the white house. Both parties have a bad habit of punting issues but if you look at whos crappy politics are more society serving than self serving then it's dems all the way, but not completely. Nothing is going to change anytime soon but it's about moving the needle and when the needle moves enough then something eventually happens. So you don't have to pay attention because one person is pretty insignificant, but many one people are significant. All you can really do is read about your candidates plans and if they align with how you think the world should work then that's your person. Then you just hope they do what they say they will do and hope they have enough support to actually do something. There is a lot of political theater bs, but that sort of matters also because reps make power plays and chip away at reputations. For the most part it's just drama though, so feel free to ignore most of it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2023
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