<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay. I told myself I was leavin the Yao vs Ben debate alone, but you guys have been saying some incredibley inaccurate, unbelievabley stupid, ridiculous stuff. Ben Wallace plays defense, THAT'S ALL. He has no post game, a below average shot, and airballs free throws. That's NOT well rounded. Also, if you think he can guard shooting guards now, then you obviously aren't in touch with realtiy </div> Yes, Yao is a better post player, but his rebounding and one-on-one defense really leaves you wanting more. Players back him down easily and his footspeed/reaction time is very painful to watch. Guys like Amare, Garnett and Swift beat him on the dribble all the time, and Yao either gives up a bad foul or gets dunked on. Shaq owns Yao in the post for 45 minutes of a game and that is definitely not good. And all that without even mentioning Yao on weakside help defense. Wallace might not be a top-notch scorer, but I don't care what way he scores just as long as he does. Off putbacks, alley-oops and open shots, it doesn't matter. When the days over, you're talking about a fifth option on offense who still puts up 10 a game. I know that doesn't make Wallace well-rounded but I do think he is more well-rounded than Yao. As for guarding shooting guards, yes, I haven't seen it often but Wallace does have to guard a shooting guard off switches. He has been able to contend with them and keep them out of the lane and force them to take a contested shot. The guy's footspeed is top notch for a big man.
This is why your basketball knowledge is questionable. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">How exactly is Yao an above average rebounder? for a 7'6 guy his rebounding average is terrible. He should be averaging at least 10-11 a game. .</div> The first mistake you made was say "for an 7'6 guy". I TRULY believe people like you, and many others are obsessed with Yao's size, and simply will never see him as a regular NBA center. Therefore, you hold him to incredibly high standards. If you get over the fact that he's 7'6, and go by statistics, his rebound numbers are above average for an NBA Center. Any Rocket fan knows, Yao changes the whole game when he's in. From the way the other team plays him, from his increbible passing, to his abiltity to change shots. Offensivley AND defensivley. So I dismiss your highly foolish claim that Ben Wallace has a more impact on the game than Yao Ming. If you think I should be "banned" for some of my opinions, then I think you should give up your job as a moderator, and give it to me......
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The first mistake you made was say "for an 7'6 guy". I TRULY believe people like you, and many others are obsessed with Yao's size, and simply will never see him as a regular NBA center. Therefore, you hold him to incredibly high standards. If you get over the fact that he's 7'6, and go by statistics, his rebound numbers are above average for an NBA Center</div> Then I guess Charles Barkley also has questionable knowledge too then. Fact is If Yao is this great player and better than Ben Wallace why is he only averagin 8 rebounds a game? we aren't talking about your average center..who BTW most average at least 9 and mainly 10-11 rebounds a game... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Any Rocket fan knows, Yao changes the whole game when he's in. From the way the other team plays him, from his increbible passing, to his abiltity to change shots. Offensivley AND defensivley. So I dismiss your highly foolish claim that Ben Wallace has a more impact on the game than Yao Ming.</div> Yao changes the game so much his team has never got past the first round and his impact has never put the Rockets in the elite. Ben Wallace's impact has helped get his team an NBA title and elite status. Yeah some impact Yao has. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you think I should be "banned" for some of my opinions, then you should give up your job as a moderator, and give it to me......</div> The day you become a moderator on here is the day this board would become the laughing stock of the history of sporting forums.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay. I told myself I was leavin the Yao vs Ben debate alone, but you guys have been saying some incredibley inaccurate, unbelievabley stupid, ridiculous stuff. Ben Wallace plays defense, THAT'S ALL. He has no post game, a below average shot, and airballs free throws. That's NOT well rounded. Also, if you think he can guard shooting guards now, then you obviously aren't in touch with realtiy </div> Ben Wallace isn't a very good offensive player, but there are some things he does well on that end. Offensive rebounding is a crucial offensive category for any team, and Ben is clearly better at it then Yao. Also, Ben is MUCH better at running the floor and getting layups/dunks in transition than Yao. On the flip side, Yao isn't a very good defensive player most of the time, but every now and then he does some good things on that end. He'll block shots, clog up the lane, etc. But his lack of mobility can make him a real liability on defense at times. It's no fluke that throughout the regular season, the Rockets actually played better with Mutombo (a Ben Wallace type player) on the floor rather than Yao.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, I would think that Ben is more versatile and more well-rounded. He is 6-9 but can do a great job defensively on any center in the NBA, and is also quick enough to guard even shooting guards. He covers a lot of ground in the blink of an eye and can get you 2 blocks and a steal every night, guaranteed. His offense is nothing to be proud of, but for what Wallace lacks on offense, he makes up for with his All-World defense. Yao is a great offensive player and can get you points but his defensive game is peanuts compared to Wallace. If Yao can cut down on his fouling and reacts faster, he can be a top-rate defender, but that's not happening. I do think that Yao should be the second-best center in the league, because I consider neither Amare and Wallace to be true centers, let alone Bosh. However, Wallace is the better player right now, although it's inevitable that Yao's time will come.</div> Dikembe Mutumbo is a multi-"DPOY" award winner, he's even been to the NBA finals. But the truth is, very few defensive oriented teams have won the NBA title in the past. In fact, I can't think of any except the pistons, and that's only because rasheed wallace's offense made their defense pay off. So, I'm gonna have to say offense is more important than defense in the NBA. Therefore, Yao Ming is a better center than Ben Wallace. Defense alone is not VERSATILITY. That's why they have a separate DPOY award. Basically awarded to a guy who can't score, as a consolation prize.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Then I guess Charles Barkley also has questionable knowledge too then. Fact is If Yao is this great player and better than Ben Wallace why is he only averagin 8 rebounds a game? we aren't talking about your average center..who BTW most average at least 9 and mainly 10-11 rebounds a game....</div> Never said he was "GREAT" but very solid. By the way, Jermaine O'Neal, an allstar center, averages 7.4 rebounds for his career, and only 8.8 last year. So once again, your superiour basketball knowledge has failed you. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Yao changes the game so much his team has never got past the first round and his impact has never put the Rockets in the elite. Ben Wallace's impact has helped get his team an NBA title and elite status. Yeah some impact Yao has..</div> Once again your baskeball knowledge isn't there. First off, Yao has been in the league only 4 years. Relax. When Yao came in the league, the Rockets weren't even making the playoffs. Keep my mind too, if the Rockets were playing in the east, they'd be legitimate contenders. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">The day you become a moderator on here is the day this board would become the laughing stock of the history of sporting forums.</div> lol......well you aren't living up to your status. Your comments have been consistently "off base" and inaccurate. But that's expected, not only do you think Ben's better than Yao, but Bowen can shut Kobe down, and apparently Darko Millic's a good defender now
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">the Rockets actually played better with Mutombo (a Ben Wallace type player) on the floor rather than Yao.</div> I'd say that's because the rockets, or rather JVG, have no idea how to use YAO. That's why Larry Brown wins titles, he knows how to get players to work in sync.
I'm gonna say one thing : AllNet knows more about bball than most of you. He is right, Ben is a better player now than Yao is now, Ben does so much more that don't show up on the score sheet. Obviously if you are building a franchise u are gonna pick Yao over Ben because Yao will probably be better in a few years. There is NO WAY Yao is better than Big Ben now. I don't care what any of u say and whether u say I don't know anything about basketball. I know alot more than most of u who say Yao is better when u only look at stats. That is how someone who didn't have a clue about basketball would judge it - Stats. And for those of u that - stupidly - say Ben has no offense, he gets 10 points a game, brilliant for someone that is probably the last option on his team on offense. U say garbage buckets he gets? Would u argue that Yao is as good as Shaq? I hope not, that would be stupid, most of Shaqs points are from garbage points like dunks.
hahaha...titi ur gonna start a whole lotta fire if ur sayin defense doesnt win championships. ur gonna hear 10 different posters b*tchin u out. that said, i do think the DPOY is a consolation price. we dont have an OPOY do we? thats called the mvp. whether u like it or not, offensive specialists get a whole lot mor e money than defensive ones too. for the most part, i think deservedly so. thats why u see a guy like redd get ridiculous money (which is not deserved) while defensive guys like christie and bowen dont get much attention. offense does take more skill. but on the matter of which is more important, offense or defense, they both are. lets leave it that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shootingmachine:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm gonna say one thing : <u>AllNet knows more about bball than most of you.</u> He is right, Ben is a better player now than Yao is now, Ben does so much more that don't show up on the score sheet. Obviously if you are building a franchise u are gonna pick Yao over Ben because Yao will probably be better in a few years. There is NO WAY Yao is better than Big Ben now. I don't care what any of u say and whether u say I don't know anything about basketball. <u>I know alot more than most of u </u>who say Yao is better when <u>u only look at stats. That is how someone who didn't have a clue about basketball would judge it - Stats.</u> And for those of u that - stupidly - say <u>Ben has no offense, he gets 10 points a game, brilliant for someone that is probably the last option on his team on offense.</u> U say garbage buckets he gets? Would u argue that Yao is as good as Shaq? I hope not, that would be stupid, most of Shaqs points are from garbage points like dunks.</div> dont give me this crap about how much u know or how much someone else knows. why u gotta act like a bigshot n try to belittle everyone else's opinion. that said, if i were a franchise starting a team n had to pick someone, i'd still definitely pick yao over ben. and i mean including how they would fare for this upcoming season, regardless of 4-5 years down the road. and when ur talkin about how people would choose yao over ben just cause of his stats. look what u use to justify that ben has offense- STATS. when i say ben has no offense, i'm doing as u say, looking beyond stats. i'm speaking of his skills, passing ability, does he create double teams, n how much havoc he creates for defensive systems. not just his stats, which he gets 10 a game of. n there is a REASON why he is the last option on offense. not the other way around.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting titi:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd say that's because the rockets, or rather JVG, have no idea how to use YAO. That's why Larry Brown wins titles, he knows how to get players to work in sync.</div> Correction, why Larry Brown won "a title". You guys aren't being logical. I think most of you know Ben ain't anything outside of defense, you just want to come in here and talk about your displeasure for Yao. Yao ain't great. Yao needs to work on his game. But in NO WAY is Yao NOT better than Ben Wallace. I don't care how many of Allnets friends come in here, and vouch for him. This conversation went stale when you guys tried to call Ben Wallace a "all around" player. That's when I knew there was no convincing you. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shootingmachine:</div><div class="quote_post">. And for those of u that - stupidly - say Ben has no offense, he gets 10 points a game, brilliant for someone that is probably the last option on his team on offense</div> Off put backs!!! He doesnt have a shot, he doesn't have post game, and he can't shoot free throws. C'mon fellas, you can't win this arguement. No team would take Ben over Yao. PERIOD! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, Yao is a better post player, but his rebounding and one-on-one defense really leaves you wanting more. Players back him down easily and his footspeed/reaction time is very painful to watch. Guys like Amare, Garnett and Swift beat him on the dribble all the time, and Yao either gives up a bad foul or gets dunked on. Shaq owns Yao in the post for 45 minutes of a game and that is definitely not good. .</div> And your point would be? Ben is 6'9, Yao's a little bigger than that. So Ben naturally moves his feet a little faster, a duh. Ben is a better defensive player, we all know, but Yao CLEARLY is overrall more effective. Amare, Garnett, and Swift, are all natural PF's. SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT! Obcourse Yao can't keep up with they're speed Lastly, Shaq doesn't own Yao. Check the numbers! Yao ALWAYS plays Shaq good. Yao ALWAYS has his best game against Shaq. Yao's hardest players are faster, quicker more athletic players. This conversation isn't going anywhere. These people know Yao is BETTER, they're just tryin to make a point that THEY feel he's overrated. If I were Rocket fans, I wouldn't even feed into it
This article is full of bullwash... First off, Amare is not a true center...I realize he played that role last season, but that was due to circumstance...hes a PF and has even stated that that's where he is most comfortable... Bosh?? Are you kidding...he averaged 16.8 points and 8.9 boards for a 33-49 ballclub...meanwhile, yao posted 18.3 points and 8.4 rebounds for a 51-31 team...hmmm, I think my case has been proven... Yao, IMO, is the 2nd best center in the league behind Shaq...Wallace is better than Yao defensively but Yao is much better offensively than Wallace is defensively... this article isnt really even worth replying to...but I did anyway ...
LOL @ this thread.....but when it comes down to choosing a better player...everyone should take a deep breath and ask themselves this question...."Who would be the guy that I build my team around"......that answer is obviously Yao........Ben is a hardworker and plays great D, but the bottom line is that he's more of a role player....Ben fits well into the sytem there in Detroit, but as far as being the flat out better player, it's Yao without a question..........not calling anyone a idiot or anything, just my honest opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Never said he was "GREAT" but very solid. By the way, Jermaine O'Neal, an allstar center, averages 7.4 rebounds for his career, and only 8.8 last year. So once again, your superiour basketball knowledge has failed you.</div> My knowledge has failed me? you are the one calling JO a center when he is infact a POWER FORWARD... Besides Jermaine had alot of problems everyone who watched the NBA knows last year. With suspensions and injures. He should get back to 10+ rebounds a game this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Once again your baskeball knowledge isn't there. First off, Yao has been in the league only 4 years. Relax. When Yao came in the league, the Rockets weren't even making the playoffs. Keep my mind too, if the Rockets were playing in the east, they'd be legitimate contenders.</div> Big deal, you are one stating Yao has a bigger impact on the game than Ben. If that is true what has Yao got to show for It? first round exits? please <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lol......well you aren't living up to your status. Your comments have been consistently "off base" and inaccurate. But that's expected, not only do you think Ben's better than Yao, but Bowen can shut Kobe down, and apparently Darko Millic's a good defender now</div> Off base? LMAO..If owning you consistantly means I'm off base then so be It. Ben to me is better than Yao. He has the awards and wins to prove It. Bowen has proved he can shut down Kobe, he may not do It all the time but he has done It. When did I say Darko was a good defender? you are making up crap. How on earth you can question someone else's knowledge when you say Iverson is inconsistant, Zo can guard Duncan and Yao has a bigger impact than a 3 time DPOY winner. You truely are clueless and need to learn alot more about the game. Can't believe I bothered wasting my time with someone who still clearly has so much to learn.
will every one plaease read all my posts again. I do not think im a big shot. i am not allnets friend - i dont even live in the same country as him. benm is better now, period. yao hasnt done nothin only get dunked on and put up stats. THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD CHOOSE BEN OVER YAO IF I WAS TO BUILD A FRANCHISE BUT BEN IS BETTER AT THE MOMENT. u all say that if i could choose a player for my team i would pick ben, thats not what im sayin i would pick yao over ben in a flash because yao will be better in the future but ben has more of an impact now.any1 with any knowledge of the game will understand that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">And your point would be? Ben is 6'9, Yao's a little bigger than that. So Ben naturally moves his feet a little faster, a duh. Ben is a better defensive player, we all know, but Yao CLEARLY is overrall more effective. Amare, Garnett, and Swift, are all natural PF's. SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT! Obcourse Yao can't keep up with they're speed Lastly, Shaq doesn't own Yao. Check the numbers! Yao ALWAYS plays Shaq good. Yao ALWAYS has his best game against Shaq. Yao's hardest players are faster, quicker more athletic players. This conversation isn't going anywhere. These people know Yao is BETTER, they're just tryin to make a point that THEY feel he's overrated. If I were Rocket fans, I wouldn't even feed into it</div> You can't even see my point? We're comparing the two for God's sake. I don't know what I was doing even thinking that you would do some debating like a real fan of the game instead just someone trying to save the little reputation that he has left on these boards. So since Yao is 7-6, he should naturally be a better scorer than Wallace? I don't give a crap about size. If I was comparing Yao and Earl Boykins, I would still bring it up. It's a fact and nothing is going to change it. Wallace plays the center position, and Yao does too. So can Yao only be compared to Shawn Bradley because they're the only guys who are 7-6? Listen to your crap! I don't give a crap how many points Yao scores on Shaq, all I used Shaq for is to show how Yao has no answer defensively for Shaq. Yes, the first 3 minutes of the game during Yao's rookie season is impressive, but Yao hasn't held Shaq to below average performances ever in a whole game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">So since Yao is 7-6, he should naturally be a better scorer than Wallace?</div> No......he's just more of offensive threat, a duh. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, the first 3 minutes of the game during Yao's rookie season is impressive, but Yao hasn't held Shaq to below average performances ever in a whole game.</div> It seems to me that you just utter out nonsense with no facts. On Jan 30 of last year, Yao held Shaq to 16pts. His average last year was 22pts a game. Do you remember that game?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting titi:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd say that's because the rockets, or rather JVG, have no idea how to use YAO. That's why Larry Brown wins titles, he knows how to get players to work in sync.</div> I wouldn't say JVG doesn't know how to use yao because he used patrick ewing really well. Yao is different from ewing, but in no way is he not used to his fullest extent.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Then I guess Charles Barkley also has questionable knowledge too then. Fact is If Yao is this great player and better than Ben Wallace why is he only averagin 8 rebounds a game? we aren't talking about your average center..who BTW most average at least 9 and mainly 10-11 rebounds a game...</div> How many minutes does Yao play in a game? Look at the stats more carefully, and you will see yao is one of the most efficient players in the league. There are a lot of people out there who are taller than Yao. You think if you throw them in they can get 50 boards? Tell me a guy even close to yao's hieght who has put up the same stats? You cant so dont try.
Good point. This reminds me of during the Rockets playoffs series, during half time they were showing all the players that were close to yao's hieght and their stats. The highest points per game for them was 7.6 and the highest rebound count was 6.?. I cant remember but it was 6 something. Yao is 11 pts higher and 2 rebounds more in his 3 year. In his 4rth year, if he declines in rebounds or points then you can bash him, but if he continues to improve than stop bashing on him because he hasn't met your expectations like other recent #1 picks.
