<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">No......he's just more of offensive threat, a duh.</div>Then don't try to use size as an advantage when discussing Ben's foot speed. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It seems to me that you just utter out nonsense with no facts. Okay LOCKE: Please give me Shaq's pts against the Rockets for each game in the last 2 seasons.</div>Keep in mind that in 2003-04 Kelvin Cato bodied up on Shaq when Yao was out, and Dikembe averaged 17.5 minutes against Miami this season. Shaq's Statline for the past two seasons 2004-05: 15 points, 5 rebounds, 6-11 FG in 27 minutes (Heat blowout win, Yao Ming 5 fouls) 23 points, 16 rebounds, 9-15 FG in 39 minutes (Yao Ming fouls out in 25 minutes) 2003-04: 22 points, 10 rebounds, 5-12 FG in 41 minutes 24 points, 9 rebounds, 5-12 FG in 41 minutes 28 points, 7 rebounds, 13-18 FG in 39 minutes 18 points, 8 rebounds, 7-17 FG in 43 minutes The stats aren't conclusive, but as per request, I showed you. We don't know how many Shaq scored when Yao was actually on the court. We don't know whether Yao actually did a good job on Shaq defensively or if it was Mutombo/Cato's faults that Shaq actually scored so much. However, the stats are pretty good and until you prove me wrong with some solid conclusive stats, Yao didn't do a good job on Shaq.
I agree that Yao's rebounding stats should improve, but people have to remember that being 7'6 has it's disadvantages (as odd as that sounds)....a lot of times Yao is just outquicked to rebounds, because at 7'6 he doesn't have the quickness of other players around him.......and yes Ben has won, but lets not forget the good teams that he has had around him.......I say Yao is better than Ben, because if you take Ben off of Detroit and replace him with Yao, they wouldn't be worst (they possibly could be better)..........you take Yao off the rockets and replace him with Ben, and the rockets would be worst off........like I mentioned before Ben is a great defender and has a lot of heart, but Yao has the better all around skills. EDIT: Yao has actually shown to equalize Shaq throughout his career....granted Shaq is much better, but when the two play head to head, they basically end up cancelling each other out (especially at this point in Shaq's career)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TmacGarnett:</div><div class="quote_post">Good point. This reminds me of during the Rockets playoffs series, during half time they were showing all the players that were close to yao's hieght and their stats. The highest points per game for them was 7.6 and the highest rebound count was 6.?. I cant remember but it was 6 something. Yao is 11 pts higher and 2 rebounds more in his 3 year. In his 4rth year, if he declines in rebounds or points then you can bash him, but if he continues to improve than stop bashing on him because he hasn't met your expectations like other recent #1 picks.</div>Gheorge Muresan, 7-7, averaged 14.5 ppg, 9.6 rpg and 2.26 bpg during the 95-96 season, so you're stats are pretty much squashed. You were probably thinking of Manute (7-8) Bol's stats.
Yao i top 5, despite the fact that all these guys are better they mostly aren't centers. Top 5 centers are 1. Shaq 2. Ben Wallace 3. Big Z 4. Yao Ming 5. Than Maybe Camby, after that it's a toss up. I dono why Z got little love
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Then don't try to use size as an advantage when discussing Ben's foot speed. .</div> Genetics show, taller players have slower foot speed, you disagree? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post"> The stats aren't conclusive, but as per request, I showed you. We don't know how many Shaq scored when Yao was actually on the court. We don't know whether Yao actually did a good job on Shaq defensively or if it was Mutombo/Cato's faults that Shaq actually scored so much. However, the stats are pretty good and until you prove me wrong with some solid conclusive stats, Yao didn't do a good job on Shaq.</div> Nice try........but you stated that Yao has NEVER held Shaq under his average. If your stats suggest otherwise, why would you make a statement like that?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Gheorge Muresan, 7-7, averaged 14.5 ppg, 9.6 rpg and 2.26 bpg during the 95-96 season, so you're stats are pretty much squashed. You were probably thinking of Manute (7-8) Bol's stats.</div> I was taking it from the people they had on tv during the playoffs. I don't recall that guy ever being one of the four they put against yao's stats, but nevertheless the probably wanted to sound biased so yao was doing great for his size. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheGreatK-Bob:</div><div class="quote_post">Yao i top 5, despite the fact that all these guys are better they mostly aren't centers. Top 5 centers are 1. Shaq 2. Ben Wallace 3. Big Z 4. Yao Ming 5. Than Maybe Camby, after that it's a toss up. I dono why Z got little love</div> big z over yao...common
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but lets not forget the good teams that he has had around him.......I say Yao is better than Ben, because if you take Ben off of Detroit and replace him with Yao, they wouldn't be worst (they possibly could be better)..........you take Yao off the rockets and replace him with Ben, and the rockets would be worst off........like I mentioned before Ben is a great defender and has a lot of heart, but Yao has the better all around skills.</div> I agree Rockets may be worse due to the fact they need Yao's offense but no way on earth would the Pistons be better with Yao than Ben. The Pistons would go from a contender to a 1st or 2nd round team. Ben's defensive impact is shoulders above everyone else's.
They would lose some defense no doubt, but they'd also be getting another offensive threat and a 7'6 guy who would take a lot of pressure off of his teammates.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Genetics show, taller players have slower foot speed, you disagree?</div>Give me a link from a well-acclaimed university and I will agree. Ben Wallace and Amare Stoudemire have faster foot speed than Bob Sura for example. You disagree?<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Nice try........but you stated that Yao has NEVER held Shaq under his average. If your stats suggest otherwise, why would you make a statement like that?</div> Yes, I did state that, and yes, the stats don't show that. But are the stats accurate? What if Yao had allowed Shaq to score the 15 points in one game, for example, then Dikembe Mutombo held him to zero? Shaq played 27 minutes that game and Dikembe 10. What if Dikembe had been on Shaq for all 10 minutes? So Shaq scored 15 on Yao in 17 minutes? Find me a statline that shows how many Shaq scored with Yao on him, because otherwise, nothing is proven. I can only go by what I saw and that was Yao was no answer for Shaq defensively.
Yao's height actually does give Shaq some problems on the offensive end.....Yao can't out muscle Shaq, but his length does bother Shaq.....shooting over a 7'6 guy with outstretched arms is no easy task.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">They would lose some defense no doubt, but they'd also be getting another offensive threat and a 7'6 guy who would take a lot of pressure off of his teammates.</div> what Ben does that doesn't show up in the boxscore is huge. It was clear when he was out how confused the Pistons looked as a team. I don't see adding Yao would help. Yes he would add extra offense but defensively teams would have It alot easier. I guess you have to of seen him alot and the Pistons alot to realise how big an impact he has.
This thread has gone I'm telling you. These people KNOW Yao is the second best center in the league. They have no arguement. I read some guy put Z over Yao now, lol. They're just trying to prove a point that they think Yao is overrated. Statistically, Yao is the second best Center, third if you count Amare. The only people that put Ben over Yao, are BEN FANS. That explains why they think he's "well rounded". Ben is a good role player. Yao is an elite player. Simple. No comparison. When Ben gets a jumpshot, ups his free throw percentage, and gets a post game, then we'll debate this.
I'm not denying Ben's impact, but Yao can make a big impact also on both the offensive and defensive end (yes he's not the greatest defender, but he can make a difference)......what I'm trying to basically say is Ben's offense is worst than Yao's defense, so that's why I think he's the better player.
Yao is elite? since when? he may be soon but as It stands now..no he isn't elite. He is very soild for a center and should continue to improve but as It stands now he is just a very soild player on a pretty good team. Funny how you say "these people" which are Rocket fans then go and say only Ben Wallace fans think Ben is better. Until Yao gets tougher he won't be favoured over a winner like Ben Wallace.
Ben Wallace is a role player on a very good team. Without Ben, the Pistons are still a playoff team. Without Yao, the Rockets are toast. BIG DIFFERENCE.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Wallace is a role player on a very good team. Without Ben, the Pistons are still a playoff team. Without Yao, the Rockets are toast. BIG DIFFERENCE.</div> Pistons may be a playoff team but they wouldn't be contenders. Which is the whole point. Both guys fit their team's system and If you swap them they wouldn't be the same.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Pistons may be a playoff team but they wouldn't be contenders. Which is the whole point. Both guys fit their team's system and If you swap them they wouldn't be the same.</div> Yao's numbers have always been better, and WILL BE better than Ben Wallace's. I'm done. seriously.
yao was always better than ben and chris and still is. i never like to read about these articles because they always have one good person and puts them lower where they are supose to be
