utah will take this? being young can backfire especially in a series like this. inexperience comes into play. spurs had a 20 point lead in this game. with the amount of turnovers they had, utah got lucky it wasn't worse. not too mention spurs didn't even look like they were trying
I know I'm kind of late, but I had to chip in with my thoughts: I don't know about everyone else, but I thought this whole incident wreaked of the NBA trying to make itself look good. In the process of doing that, the league made some really arbitrary decisions that just don't make any sense to me. First of all, I don't like how everyone compared Horry's suspension with Stoudamire/Diaw's and considered it completely unfair. I looked at both of them as completely separate incidents that aren't comparable. Horry hit Nash with a cheapshot at the end of the game and, IMO, it should be judged the same way, whether Amare and Boris jump out off the bench or not. And this is where I thought the League made themselves look foolish. Stern has maintained all along that Amare and Diaw deserved their suspensions and should take responsibility for their actions. Then how does he justify giving Horry 2 games for a play that's never warranted that big a suspension before? He deserved to be ejected for that play and, at most, deserved a 1 game suspension because the foul was at the end of the game. But 2 games just gave me the impression that the NBA didn't want the Spurs to come out looking like winners in the whole fiasco (even though they did anyways). And the other problem I had was with the Amare/Diaw suspensions stacked up with Duncan's own transgression. By all means, Duncan deserved the a similar suspension. There may not have been as much tension as when Nash got knocked down, but his actions were completely out of line and the league has enforced its "zero tolerance" policy towards stepping on the court on much less serious cases. I considered his actions to be somewhere between Amare and Diaw, in terms of how bad it was. And, IMO, the only reason he didn't get a similar suspension is because that incident was brought to the attention of the league by the Phoenix Suns. I think the NBA didn't want it to look like they were caving into a team that had suffered a significant blow and was clearly grasping at straws. It would give the impression that they were picking sides. So, instead, they allowed such a ridiculous contradiction to occur. Those are just the 2 main rulings that made me believe that Stern is far more preoccupied with looking good in the media and maintaining a good image than with being consistent and fair. And I think we've seen this same problem for quite a while now. On the other hand, I see the outrage and attention over this issue to be a sign of how terrible the NBA playoffs have been this year. The first round really didn't hold much excitement aside from the "underdog angle" with the Warriors or the Rockets and Jazz going 7 games. I think a lot of fans were hoping the Suns-Spurs would salvage the playoffs and were pissed off when it ended so terribly. While I do believe the NBA deserves a lot of criticism, I don't think we can blame them for Amare's decision to leave the bench and force the league's hand.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">utah will take this? being young can backfire especially in a series like this. inexperience comes into play. spurs had a 20 point lead in this game. with the amount of turnovers they had, utah got lucky it wasn't worse. not too mention spurs didn't even look like they were trying</div> I was listening to TNT, and Barkley was talking about how he wanted to change his pick in the Jazz/Spurs series to Utah, and quite frankly I agreed with most of what he said. The Jazz are not as inexperienced as people make them out to be, Okur won a title with the Pistons, while Fisher was part of the Lakers dynasty not too many years ago. So I think people claiming that the Jazz will lose do to inexperience is a moot one. The Jazz lost game one because they did not come to play in the first half, but in the second half they out played San Antonio in every aspect of the game. The outscored the Spurs 64-54 in the second half. I believe the match ups favor are largely tilted towards the Jazz in this series. Deron Williams is too big for Tony Parker to guard by himself. He will be going off offensively this entire series unless Pop makes a change defensively. Meanwhile, Duncan's affect on the series will be virtually negated by that of Carlos Boozer. Okur had a bad game in the first contest of the series, but does anyone really expect that he will be held to 10 points on 3-15 shooting the entire series? Mehmet is really the x factor for me, he is an all star big man who should really have his way down in the post playing against Elson and Oberto. If he comes to play the Jazz have an immediate advantage right out of the gate. Although, it is far from a lock that the Jazz will win the series. I feel they will come out on top, and it is a realistic scenario.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I was listening to TNT, and Barkley was talking about how he wanted to change his pick in the Jazz/Spurs series to Utah, and quite frankly I agreed with most of what he said. The Jazz are not as inexperienced as people make them out to be, Okur won a title with the Pistons, while Fisher was part of the Lakers dynasty not too many years ago. So I think people claiming that the Jazz will lose do to inexperience is a moot one. The Jazz lost game one because they did not come to play in the first half, but in the second half they out played San Antonio in every aspect of the game. The outscored the Spurs 64-54 in the second half. I believe the match ups favor are largely tilted towards the Jazz in this series. Deron Williams is too big for Tony Parker to guard by himself. He will be going off offensively this entire series unless Pop makes a change defensively. Meanwhile, Duncan's affect on the series will be virtually negated by that of Carlos Boozer. Okur had a bad game in the first contest of the series, but does anyone really expect that he will be held to 10 points on 3-15 shooting the entire series? Mehmet is really the x factor for me, he is an all star big man who should really have his way down in the post playing against Elson and Oberto. If he comes to play the Jazz have an immediate advantage right out of the gate. Although, it is far from a lock that the Jazz will win the series. I feel they will come out on top, and it is a realistic scenario.</div> You're saying this based on what? Boozer is more likely to be negated in this series since he had a dreadful game one outing.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're saying this based on what? Boozer is more likely to be negated in this series since he had a dreadful game one outing.</div> They both put up 20 points and 10 odd rebound a night. They will cancel each other out during the series. Game one was a perfect example Duncan put up 27-10, while Boozer posted 20-12. The game was really decided by the fact that Manu stepped up, while Okur, AK, and Fisher all struggled.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">They both put up 20 points and 10 odd rebound a night. They will cancel each other out during the series.</div> How can Boozer negate Duncan's interior defense? Duncan's teams don't just win because of his points and boards.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can Boozer negate Duncan's interior defense? Duncan's teams don't just win because of his points and boards.</div> If he is putting up the same amount of numbers as Duncan on the offensive end of the court, they are negating each others affect on the series on that end, as well as on the boards. Its basically a stalemate between the two of them. Which in term will cause the series to be decided by the players around them.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If he is putting up the same amount of numbers as Duncan on the offensive end of the court, they are negating each others affect on the series on that end, as well as on the boards. Its basically a stalemate between the two of them. Which in term will cause the series to be decided by the players around them.</div> That would mean that Boozer is having success against Duncan but TD can still defend other players that decide to enter the paint.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That would mean that Boozer is having success against Duncan but TD can still defend other players that decide to enter the paint.</div> Its a pick your poison situation the Jazz have two great interior players in Okur (when he comes to play) and Boozer. Duncan can't guard both of them at the same time, nor can Elson/Oberto. So one of them is going to take advantage of the mismatch as the series progresses. The Jazz have an apparent advantage in the front court regardless.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Its a pick your poison situation the Jazz have two great interior players in Okur (when he comes to play) and Boozer. Duncan can't guard both of them at the same time, nor can Elson/Oberto. So one of them is going to take advantage of the mismatch as the series progresses.</div> Duncan isn't going to solely guard Boozer in the Series. Amare for example had 38 points (though some garbage points at the end of course) and Duncan wasn't always covering him.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Its a pick your poison situation the Jazz have two great interior players in Okur (when he comes to play) and Boozer. Duncan can't guard both of them at the same time, nor can Elson/Oberto. So one of them is going to take advantage of the mismatch as the series progresses. The Jazz have an apparent advantage in the front court regardless.</div> Duncan isn't going to solely guard Boozer in this series. For example, Amare had 38 points in game six (though some garbage points in the end), and Duncan was not always on him and provided excellent interior defense against the other players (he also had 9 blocks).
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan isn't going to solely guard Boozer in this series. For example, Amare had 38 points in game six (though some garbage points in the end), and Duncan was not always on him and provided excellent interior defense against the other players (he also had 9 blocks).</div> Defensively he had a great first game, but Duncan is just one player, when Okur and Boozer both come to play he won't be able to guard both of them, and a mismatch will happen in the front court. Perhaps, I would have been better served saying that Duncan/Boozer mitigate each others effect on the series offensively, thus putting more of an onus on their teammates to step up offensively and create separation for their team. In that area the Jazz have more front court depth then the Spurs with Okur, Boozer, and Milisap. As the series progresses it is going to ware the Spurs down having to deal with those three.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Defensively he had a great first game, but Duncan is just one player, when Okur and Boozer both come to play he won't be able to guard both of them, and a mismatch will happen in the front court. Perhaps, I would have been better served saying that Duncan/Boozer mitigate each others effect on the series offensively, thus putting more of a load on their teammates to step up offensively and create separation for their team. In that area the Jazz have more front court depth then the Spurs with Okur, Boozer, and Milisap. As the series progresses it is going to ware the Spurs down having to deal with those three.</div> Is Okur really an interior force though? Isn't Milisap just energy off the bench (ala Chuck Hayes or Ronny Turiaf)?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If he is putting up the same amount of numbers as Duncan on the offensive end of the court, they are negating each others affect on the series on that end, as well as on the boards. Its basically a stalemate between the two of them. Which in term will cause the series to be decided by the players around them.</div> I think you're vastly underrating Duncan's presence on the defensive end. Boozer is not very intimidating in the paint. Basketball is not just about offense. But at the same time basketball is also a team game. So that definitely makes it harder to determine a player's effect on the defensive end, since Boozer's role is different than Duncan's. AK is Utah's interior presence. But you can also say that Duncan has a more important role on D than Boozer does. And in terms of offense, you also have to look at it as a team game. How do Boozer and Duncan make their teammate's better? Or how important is their offensive presence? It's not all about how many points each player scores. You also have to take into account, how other players react to them, and this in turn can make it easier for teammates to score, depending on the player's decisions with the ball. On offense, they seem pretty even, but then again I haven't watched that many Utah or SA games. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not as simple as numbers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is Okur really an interior force though? Isn't Milisap just energy off the bench (ala Chuck Hayes or Ronny Turiaf)?</div> I watched the Warriors/Jazz series and a few regular season Jazz games, and I can say that Okur is not an interior force at all. He does not scare anyone and usually ends up standing there with his arms raised. He's too slow to get position and usually arrives late and fouls someone. Okur is a good three point shooter though, but that's it. AK is their only shot block and interior presence. Without him in the paint, the Warriors wouldn't have taken 30+ three's a game.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Is Okur really an interior force though? Isn't Milisap just energy off the bench (ala Chuck Hayes or Ronny Turiaf)?</div> He is an all star, who can stretch the defense with his shot, or bring it inside. He is a tough match up for anyone on the Spurs (not named Duncan). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you're vastly underrating Duncan's presence on the defensive end. Boozer is not very intimidating in the paint. Basketball is not just about offense. But at the same time basketball is also a team game. So that definitely makes it harder to determine a player's effect on the defensive end, since Boozer's role is different than Duncan's. AK is Utah's interior presence. But you can also say that Duncan has a more important role on D than Boozer does. And in terms of offense, you also have to look at it as a team game. How do Boozer and Duncan make their teammate's better? Or how important is their offensive presence? It's not all about how many points each player scores. You also have to take into account, how other players react to them, and this in turn can make it easier for teammates to score, depending on the player's decisions with the ball. On offense, they seem pretty even, but then again I haven't watched that many Utah or SA games. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not as simple as numbers.</div> When I was saying they would cancel each other out I was actually speaking offensively, not defensively. Although, there are obviously several other key areas that play a role in the series, of which these players do affect. When looking at it from a simple number standards (which is what I have been getting at). Duncan and Boozer will negate each other during the series offensively, putting more of an onus on the players around them to step up. With that said I believe the Jazz have more depth than San Antonio and that will ultimately put them over the top imo.
<div class="quote_poster">Gohn Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I watched the Warriors/Jazz series and a few regular season Jazz games, and I can say that Okur is not an interior force at all. He does not scare anyone and usually ends up standing there with his arms raised. He's too slow to get position and usually arrives late and fouls someone. Okur is a good three point shooter though, but that's it. AK is their only shot block and interior presence. Without him in the paint, the Warriors wouldn't have taken 30+ three's a game.</div> Well thanks for the input but that was a rhetorical question. I know enough about Okur (and have watched him play a bit) to know he is more of a perimeter player. He isn't anything special on the interior. All-Star is a bit of stretch Blur.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> He isn't anything special on the interior. All-Star is a bit of stretch Blur.</div> He made the all star team, that is why I stated that. As a replacement, but an all star none the less.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He made the all star team, that is why I stated that. As a replacement, but an all star none the less.</div> So did Caron Butler and Manu, but I believe they were stretches as well. Okur is quite serviceable (offensively) of course.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Defensively he had a great first game, but Duncan is just one player, when Okur and Boozer both come to play he won't be able to guard both of them, and a mismatch will happen in the front court. Perhaps, I would have been better served saying that Duncan/Boozer mitigate each others effect on the series offensively, thus putting more of an onus on their teammates to step up offensively and create separation for their team. In that area the Jazz have more front court depth then the Spurs with Okur, Boozer, and Milisap. As the series progresses it is going to ware the Spurs down having to deal with those three.</div> why do we have to wait until Boozer & Okur come 2 play...they should show up every night...Duncan does
