In the first inning,he had a "discoloration" a.k.a Pine Tar on the thumb of his throwing hand. When he found out the umpires were on to it, he came back out in the second inning and it was gone meaning he washed it off. Now tell me that if that wasnt something illegal,why he would go wash it off that quick when someone became suspicious.
Tigers took game two. Cards were a base hit away from tieing the game in the 9th inning but Molina couldnt pull through. Atleast we took 1 of 2 in Detroit. I still think were in good shape with Carpenter and Suppan pitching the first two in St.Louis.
"Some pitchers, such as Mark Buehrle and Todd Jones, claimed it is a common--if not well-kept--secret among pitchers." according to Wikipedia.I don't get how pine tar would help you throw a ball. Wouldn't it decrease velocity since it improves grip? I'm assuming it would increase control but not enough to cancel out the velocity of the release.Nonetheless, even after washing off his hand or w/e, he pitched 7 shutout innings.On Sports Illustrated, it says they just though it was dirt but LaRussa said the ball was doing funny things. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/base...e.ap/index.html
Kenny Rogers is a cheater.But the Cards still should have been able to hit him from the 2nd inning on if they wanted this win.BTW Flores gave them yet another scoreless 7th. This guy is so damn clutch, I'm telling you guys.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Oct 22 2006, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>BTW Flores gave them yet another scoreless 7th. This guy is so damn clutch, I'm telling you guys.</div>He's clutch because he pitched 1 shutout inning when his team was down 3 runs? Usually that's not considered clutch, but I guess you define clutch differently than everyone else. My cousin, Pujols, wasn't clutch. 0-3.. damn. I'll call him about that and give him a pre-game prep talk before game three.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ Oct 22 2006, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Oct 22 2006, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>BTW Flores gave them yet another scoreless 7th. This guy is so damn clutch, I'm telling you guys.</div>He's clutch because he pitched 1 shutout inning when his team was down 3 runs? Usually that's not considered clutch, but I guess you define clutch differently than everyone else. My cousin, Pujols, wasn't clutch. 0-3.. damn. I'll call him about that and give him a pre-game prep talk before game three. </div>Clutch: To perform well under situations of intense pressure.Pitching in the playoff, every pitch is thrown under intense pressure.He hasn't allowed a run in 6.2 Innings thus far in the playoffs and has a WHIP under 1, 1 Win, no Losses, 4 K's, 1 Walk..... That's clutch. :thumbsup:
That's definately not a dirt mark. Although it didnt have much of an affect on the game last night becuase it was gone after the second inning and the cardinals still couldnt hit him, it is bothering me that he has been possibly getting away with this all post-season long. Now that I think about it, he does have a history of struggling in the playoffs, until magically this year. Its not that im complaining either, good effort by the Tigers last night, it's just that I hate Kenny Rogers with a passion. I never really liked the way he showed off on the mound with all the intensity he has but last year when he punched that camera dude was the topping on the cake. If the Tigers do win the World Series, I hope they come back and be like "Everyone can keep the ring,except Rogers because we just dont like cheaters"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"Some pitchers, such as Mark Buehrle and Todd Jones, claimed it is a common--if not well-kept--secret among pitchers." according to Wikipedia.I don't get how pine tar would help you throw a ball. Wouldn't it decrease velocity since it improves grip? I'm assuming it would increase control but not enough to cancel out the velocity of the release.Nonetheless, even after washing off his hand or w/e, he pitched 7 shutout innings.On Sports Illustrated, it says they just though it was dirt but LaRussa said the ball was doing funny things.</div>Pine tar helps increase velocity and spin on the ball. And their was alot of spin on the ball.Regardless, he still did pitch 7 shut out innings afterwards but that may be due to the fact that the whole incident got into the Cardinals heads.By the way, LaRussa never said anything about the ball doing funny things. He was just the message boy. It was actually Eckstein,Speizio,and players watching the game from the clubhouse that informed LaRussa that the ball was doing funny things.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jenkz @ Oct 23 2006, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"Some pitchers, such as Mark Buehrle and Todd Jones, claimed it is a common--if not well-kept--secret among pitchers." according to Wikipedia.I don't get how pine tar would help you throw a ball. Wouldn't it decrease velocity since it improves grip? I'm assuming it would increase control but not enough to cancel out the velocity of the release.Nonetheless, even after washing off his hand or w/e, he pitched 7 shutout innings.On Sports Illustrated, it says they just though it was dirt but LaRussa said the ball was doing funny things.</div>Pine tar helps increase velocity and spin on the ball. And their was alot of spin on the ball.Regardless, he still did pitch 7 shut out innings afterwards but that may be due to the fact that the whole incident got into the Cardinals heads.By the way, LaRussa never said anything about the ball doing funny things. He was just the message boy. It was actually Eckstein,Speizio,and players watching the game from the clubhouse that informed LaRussa that the ball was doing funny things.</div>The Same mark was there during the Yankee game he pitched.The Tigers should had to forfiet and the Yankees should be placed in the World Series to play the Cards.
If it was pine tar...The thing is in the past, pine tar was always in the glove, not on a bare hand.And when you throw a baseball, it's supposed to roll off your fingers, not your thumb.So I don't get how that would benefit a pitcher at all if it's on your thumb.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chang @ Oct 23 2006, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If it was pine tar...The thing is in the past, pine tar was always in the glove, not on a bare hand.And when you throw a baseball, it's supposed to roll off your fingers, not your thumb.So I don't get how that would benefit a pitcher at all if it's on your thumb.</div>The ball doesn't normally sit there, so you wouldn't get any on the ball that you didn't want to. In the glove and on the fingers, some gets on the ball by mistake. Easier to only doctor the pitches you want.
Woody Paige brought up a pretty good point as to why the spot was on his thumb today. Im not quite sure what he said now, but he convinved me that it was pine tar all the way.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jenkz @ Oct 23 2006, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's definately not a dirt mark. Although it didnt have much of an affect on the game last night becuase it was gone after the second inning and the cardinals still couldnt hit him, it is bothering me that he has been possibly getting away with this all post-season long. Now that I think about it, he does have a history of struggling in the playoffs, until magically this year. Its not that im complaining either, good effort by the Tigers last night, it's just that I hate Kenny Rogers with a passion. I never really liked the way he showed off on the mound with all the intensity he has but last year when he punched that camera dude was the topping on the cake. If the Tigers do win the World Series, I hope they come back and be like "Everyone can keep the ring,except Rogers because we just dont like cheaters"</div>I definately think he was cheating. Once the playoffs began he went from throwing 84-85 to 91-92 out of nowhere and nobody thought anything of it. The same spot was there for all 3 playoff games and the first time somebody noticed it and said something he magically goes and wipes it off before the umpires can talk to him then claims it was dirt? I dont think so. I also love the assumption that the second half of that game was legit. Who is to say he didnt move the Pine Tar to somewhere else, such as in his glove?
So, the experts on ESPN said Tigers in 6. Tigers keep playing like they did in games 1 and 3, this series is over in 5.
