<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jul 15 2007, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Heat had a lot of offense, but it's starting to downgrade. They lost Kapono, their 3rd leading scorer last season. Antoine Walker is too inconsistent to be an option if Wade or Shaq goes down. Posey is getting out of shape, and could be on his way out of Miami. Jason Williams and Alonzo are both up there in age. It definatly would not hurt to bring in a good 3rd scoring option with Shaq being old and fragile, and Wade missing games here and there.</div>If steve francis goes there, he'll just rot on the bench. I agree they could use a 3rd option though, possibly trade some of their depth for a star.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jul 15 2007, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Scoring is a problem for the Heat actually, seeing that they ranked 28th in the league in PPG. They really only have one consistent scoring option right now, and that's Wade. Shaq is a good option, but he's always missing a large amount of games. Past them, they really don't have any reliable options, and Francis would fix that.</div>How would Francis fix that? He's as inconsistent as they come, turnover prone, injury prone, can't really shoot the ball very well, and he actually hurts them even more on the defensive end.
Francis COULD help the Heat, but he'd have to play mostly off ball and would have to feel comfortable with being a distant 3rd scoring threat. He IS a better player than Williams, and probably even more consistent and better decision maker (how many times have you seen Williams take a ridiculous pullup 3pt shot and clank it?), so I think it could work out assuming his attitude is in check.
The Heat do need more scoring but I really dont know how Francis would work, we obviously need help at the PG position but I dont see Francis being the type of PG we need, we really do need offense as it was pretty bad last year, I think having Jones a full season will help us but we also lost Kapono, Francis could help at scoring but I doubt he wants to come off the bench and share the ball with Wade and Shaq.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 15 2007, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Francis COULD help the Heat, but he'd have to play mostly off ball and would have to feel comfortable with being a distant 3rd scoring threat. He IS a better player than Williams, and probably even more consistent and better decision maker (how many times have you seen Williams take a ridiculous pullup 3pt shot and clank it?), so I think it could work out assuming his attitude is in check.</div>On the contrary, how many times have you seen Steve Francis dribble out of control and/or waste 19 seconds off the shot clock trying to look like Hot Sauce? J-Will is also a better shooter, and a MUCH better playmaker. Valo and I talked about this on AIM the other night, and agreed that J-Will is still one of the better passers in the NBA. J-Will may have questionable shot selection, but at the end of the day I'd trust J-Will taking a 3 over Francis. I'd also trust J-Will with the ball more than Francis.Francis is clearly more talented, but I think he hurts a team more than helps them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jul 15 2007, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>On the contrary, how many times have you seen Steve Francis dribble out of control and/or waste 19 seconds off the shot clock trying to look like Hot Sauce? J-Will is also a better shooter, and a MUCH better playmaker. Valo and I talked about this on AIM the other night, and agreed that J-Will is still one of the better passers in the NBA. J-Will may have questionable shot selection, but at the end of the day I'd trust J-Will taking a 3 over Francis. I'd also trust J-Will with the ball more than Francis.Francis is clearly more talented, but I think he hurts a team more than helps them.</div>As I said, he'd learn to have to play off ball more. The Heat don't greatly need a playmaker on the team as Wade does most of the ballhandling/playmaking and offense occasionally run through Shaq. Francis is more than capable of running the offense with Wade out. Williams shooting is valuable, but the Heat have NO slashers or guys who can really make things happen offensively outside of Wade/Shaq. This was clearly apparent in the playoffs. Francis can create his own shot and do it well, and while not the shooter Williams is, CAN shoot the midrange/3pt shot decently. With guys like Walker and Jones on the team, 3pt shooting isn't greatly needed. No players who can really be effective off the dribble and take over reigns of 3rd scorer IS something that is greatly needed.Francis won't cost a ton and he is a potentially high reward investment. I think he would be worth the signing.
There aren't many scorers left on the market, so Francis would be a quick fix for the Heat. He has a past of putting up 20 points and 7 assists a game, and in limited minutes, put up decent scoring numbers for the Knicks. It wouldn't hurt them to give him a shot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 15 2007, 06:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Francis COULD help the Heat, but he'd have to play mostly off ball and would have to feel comfortable with being a distant 3rd scoring threat. He IS a better player than Williams, and probably even more consistent and better decision maker (how many times have you seen Williams take a ridiculous pullup 3pt shot and clank it?), so I think it could work out assuming his attitude is in check.</div>I'm not completely sold on Francis fitting in Miami yet. He could be a potential starter for the team but in New York his confidence plunged. Due to the logjam in New York's backcourt Francis's minutes fell and now it seems as though the 20/6 Francis we knew in Houston is just a distant memory. I don't know if Miami can bring 'Stevie Franchise' back but I guess you have to take risks to assemble a great team.I don't think that Miami should sign him for more than 3 years. The Heat should put a team option on a third season. As I noted to before, Francis will be a risk and Miami should definetely stay clear of a longterm contract for an aging 30 year old who much of the media label a 'cancer'.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 15 2007, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not completely sold on Francis fitting in Miami yet. He could be a potential starter for the team but in New York his confidence plunged. Due to the logjam in New York's backcourt Francis's minutes fell and now it seems as though the 20/6 Francis we knew in Houston is just a distant memory. I don't know if Miami can bring 'Stevie Franchise' back but I guess you have to take risks to assemble a great team.I don't think that Miami should sign him for more than 3 years. The Heat should put a team option on a third season. As I noted to before, Francis will be a risk and Miami should definetely stay clear of a longterm contract for an aging 30 year old who much of the media label a 'cancer'.</div>He can still produce. 04-05 he had one of his best seasons ever, first half of 05-06 had 16/6/5, and then last year had to deal withy logjam and some injuries.Due to his reputation, he will be pretty cheap and won't be long term. That qualifies as fairly low risk. He still has the scoring ability to be the best 3rd option Miami has, can still dish the ball pretty well, and still one of the best rebounding PG in the game. He could be a very nice fit.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 16 2007, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He can still produce. 04-05 he had one of his best seasons ever, first half of 05-06 had 16/6/5, and then last year had to deal withy logjam and some injuries.Due to his reputation, he will be pretty cheap and won't be long term. That qualifies as fairly low risk. He still has the scoring ability to be the best 3rd option Miami has, can still dish the ball pretty well, and still one of the best rebounding PG in the game. He could be a very nice fit.</div>What Heat fans have to fear is that Francis will continue to only want to play limited minutes as he did when he was healthy on the Knicks this season. I remember that Isiah Thomas wanted him to play more minutes, not dissapear when he was on the floor, and appear to be more of a leader. Francis on the other hand just wanted to take the back seat. As I said, a three year contract with a team option will minimize risk but I feel as though Francis is deciding what kind of player he wants to be. I think the Heat need to have talks with Francis about what kind of role they will expect out of him before a signing because it is clear that he has the potential to start.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 15 2007, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What Heat fans have to fear is that Francis will continue to only want to play limited minutes as he did when he was healthy on the Knicks this season. I remember that Isiah Thomas wanted him to play more minutes, not dissapear when he was on the floor, and appear to be more of a leader. Francis on the other hand just wanted to take the back seat.</div>He didn't know how to mesh with Marbury/Crawford/Richardson/Nate/50834557 other of those same type of players on the Knicks (for that matter, Marbury has had trouble with it as well). And I wouldn't really consider 28MPG as limited considering how loaded that backcourt is.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As I said, a three year contract with a team option will minimize risk but I feel as though Francis is deciding what kind of player he wants to be. I think the Heat need to have talks with Francis about what kind of role they will expect out of him before a signing because it is clear that he has the potential to start.</div>A talk is nice, but won't do anything, as seen with Payton on the Lakers in 03-04. Basically they need to pinpoint the team's weaknesses, and see if Francis is a better option than Williams. They know what he brings to the table.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 16 2007, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He didn't know how to mesh with Marbury/Crawford/Richardson/Nate/50834557 other of those same type of players on the Knicks (for that matter, Marbury has had trouble with it as well). And I wouldn't really consider 28MPG as limited considering how loaded that backcourt is.</div>Isiah Thomas offered Francis more minutes when Stephon Marbury went down but he just dissapeared when he went on the court. 28 MPG is solid minutes for a backup but It's not necceseraly what he did do for New York that bothers me, it's what he could have done for New York but didn't. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>A talk is nice, but won't do anything, as seen with Payton on the Lakers in 03-04. Basically they need to pinpoint the team's weaknesses, and see if Francis is a better option than Williams. They know what he brings to the table.</div>Everyone knows what Francis can do but the Heat need to make sure that he is ready to contribute.--What I'm trying to say in general is that Steve Francis is capable right now of being 20/6 like he was on Houston. From what we saw in New York however, he didn't want to be that kind of player anymore. The Heat will want Francis to be the third option but they need to make sure he won't repeat history and do what he did in New York.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 15 2007, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Isiah Thomas offered Francis more minutes when Stephon Marbury went down but he just dissapeared when he went on the court. 28 MPG is solid minutes for a backup but It's not necceseraly what he did do for New York that bothers me, it's what he could have done for New York but didn't.</div>He wanted to contribute, but couldn't adjust to those other players who were just like him. As I said, Marbury is the same way. When Marbury went down at end of season, Francis finished out season averaging 25/5/4 in last 4 games, averaging around 45MPG.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Everyone knows what Francis can do but the Heat need to make sure that he is ready to contribute.</div>He knows he is at a bad spot in his career, and like Magloire, will look for this season to regain reputation. If he signs with Heat, he will play hard and do his best to contribute.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>What I'm trying to say in general is that Steve Francis is capable right now of being 20/6 like he was on Houston. From what we saw in New York however, he didn't want to be that kind of player anymore. The Heat will want Francis to be the third option but they need to make sure he won't repeat history and do what he did in New York.</div>He only played like 50 games in a LOADED backcourt last season. In 05-06 he averaged nice numbers with orlando before being traded. The guy will be a much better 3rd option than anything that the Heat have, and he won't be expensive and offers a few other things outside of scoring.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 16 2007, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He wanted to contribute, but couldn't adjust to those other players who were just like him. As I said, Marbury is the same way. When Marbury went down at end of season, Francis finished out season averaging 25/5/4 in last 4 games, averaging around 45MPG.</div>Well it is clear that he didn't fit in New York but the question is will he be able to fit in Miami. In more than one full season a player of Francis's caliber should have learned to adapt to the situation in a way that he can still contribute as much as possible. It seemed as though as you said he finally adapted at the end of the season but I'm sure Miami doesn't want to wait 2 seasons for Francis to fit in Miami.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>He knows he is at a bad spot in his career, and like Magloire, will look for this season to regain reputation. If he signs with Heat, he will play hard and do his best to contribute.</div>That's exactly where they need to make sure Francis's head is at.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>He only played like 50 games in a LOADED backcourt last season. In 05-06 he averaged nice numbers with orlando before being traded. The guy will be a much better 3rd option than anything that the Heat have, and he won't be expensive and offers a few other things outside of scoring.</div>Do you think those 2 seasons of being on that loaded backcourt effected his game? Through most of his time in New York he was forced to take the backseat and when Isiah asked him to step up it took him a while to adapt. The Heat need to be sure he's not comfortable taking the back seat.If he's ready to contribute like he did before the New York mess then it would be a wonderful signing for the Heat. We both agree on that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 16 2007, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well it is clear that he didn't fit in New York but the question is will he be able to fit in Miami. In more than one full season a player of Francis's caliber should have learned to adapt to the situation in a way that he can still contribute as much as possible. It seemed as though as you said he finally adapted at the end of the season but I'm sure Miami doesn't want to wait 2 seasons for Francis to fit in Miami.</div>No, I am not saying he finally adapted, but he actually had a chance to prove something when Marbury and Crawford went down. It's not a matter of him taking a backseat to another player, but when you have to do it with 3-4 other players who all play the SAME POSITION....it's tough.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think those 2 seasons of being on that loaded backcourt effected his game? Through most of his time in New York he was forced to take the backseat and when Isiah asked him to step up it took him a while to adapt. The Heat need to be sure he's not comfortable taking the back seat.</div>I don't think it effected his game. His injury might have, but as he showed at end of season, he still has the ability to score and do other things pretty well. All his injury and 2 poor seasons does is allow Miami to sign him for fairly cheap. He will have more freedom in Miami and will know from the start exactly what his role is. He won't have the problems in Miami that he did in NY.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 16 2007, 01:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think it effected his game. His injury might have, but as he showed at end of season, he still has the ability to score and do other things pretty well. All his injury and 2 poor seasons does is allow Miami to sign him for fairly cheap. He will have more freedom in Miami and will know from the start exactly what his role is. He won't have the problems in Miami that he did in NY.</div>What kind of numbers do you expect Francis to put up next season if he goes to Miami? He will likely share alot of his minutes with Jason Williams and I'm still not completely sold on him instantly going back to a 20/6 guy simply because he did take a back seat.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 16 2007, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What kind of numbers do you expect Francis to put up next season if he goes to Miami? He will likely share alot of his minutes with Jason Williams and I'm still not completely sold on him instantly going back to a 20/6 guy simply because he did take a back seat.</div>Somewhere around 15/4/5. There is no way he'll get 20PPG with a 28PPG and 20PPG scorer on the same team. With wade doing much of the ballhandling, I don't expect any more than 5APG tops. I think he will do good on the boards, grabbing around 5RPG.In other words, he will be effective as a 3rd option and give the team a much needed shot in the arm.
I'll say it one more time, and I'm not even gonna debate it with anyone: Francis is GARBAGE. I saw him in NY for quite some time there, and he was HORRIBLE. He has lost a step in his game with his knee injuries and all he does is add negative input into an already messed up locker room (in NY)>...it'd be a bad signing for anyone.
You won't know how bad Francis is till he plays for your team. This is basically what he still does: Dribble...dribble...dribble...dribble..dribble. Shot clock violation.
As I said before, Francis could in fact end up hurting the Heat but right now we don't have much of a choice, I mean who else is left on the market that has the offensive talent of Steve Francis, I think we need to take a risk with Francis and hope it works out because on paper it would fit perfectly, Steve Francis is a great offensive player and the Heat's offense struggled last year. If Francis can accept his role which I think our coaching staff can work with him on, this would be a good fit. It is a risk and it could either help us or bite us in the ass but I think we should go for it.
