Steve Kerr- "MVP Award Is Locked Up"

I really don't understand all the confusion going on.

Steve Kerr is not a moron, I respect what he has to say A LOT.

And he was not just so excited about what happened that he overexagerrated about the MVP award being Locked Up.

Listen guys, If being down by 18 with 10 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, and SINGLEHANDEDLY bringing your team to victory (BY 18 FREAKIN POINTS) Then really, I guess I don't know what Most Valuable Player means.

I swear, I guess MVP means who gets the most assists. People would see the reason Kobe doesn't have 10 assists a game if they actually really watched the games, because either his team doesn't come through and make the shot, or when he passes to them, they end up passing back to him and bail him out of the 24 second shot clock violation.

Give Kobe the damn MVP award so we can all shut up. But then again, if he does win MVP, we're gonna be hearing it for days and months about how he wasn't worthy of it.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting xclutchx:</div><div class="quote_post">If kobe was playing for the Suns they would be #1 in the west and their would be no question about him deserving to be MVP. At least thats my assumption.
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Why? that team would be doing about as good as the lakers are now. Is the 32 year old kurt thomas that much better than mihm? is boris diaw that much better then devean george (at least before nash helped him out) shawn marion wouldn't be playing that well with kobe since KB takes about 26 shots a game, we see that with odom. so i see no reason how kobe would help the suns, while like i said nash would help the lakers.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Johnnybrasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash is more valuable for the fact he took a team that some in pre-season didn't even expect to make the playoffs and turned them elite. Who does nash have that makes his team much better than the lakers? aside from the matrix? he's taken boris diaw, a guy last year who was considerd a draft bust, and turned him into a MIP candidate. he has, raja bell, james jones, and kurt thomas playing center in the west and some people are expecting these guys to have a chance at conference finals.

If nash was playing on the lakers, Brown would be avergaing like 15 points and 8 rebounds, mihm would be like 18 and 8, odom would be dominating games more. Its not even close.</div>

Once again. Flawed logic. We can't determine who is more valuable to their team by saying how much better the player would be playing for ANOTHER team. That makes no sense.

Again I ask you... Does Nash add more wins to the Suns w/out Nash than Kobe adds more wins to the Lakers without Kobe? Answer that question first.

As for your claim that the Suns are not that much better than the Lakers... come on now. Raja Bell... Shawn Marion... Boris Diaw... Kurt Thomas. As Shape pointed out... experience alone gives them a big advantage... how many close games have the Lakers lost vs how many close games have the Suns lost? The fact that the Suns fare better than the Lakers in close games goes to show you what experience can do. Alas, their only advantage is not experience. According to the stats in the article I posted Shawn Marion plays no better with Nash on the court than without him. He is a legitimate All-Star calibre player who does not need Nash to make him better. I cannot say the same about Lamar Odom. Marion plays without the ball... he scores on catch and shoots, transition baskets and offensive put backs. Marion would actually be a perfect complement to Kobe Bryant because he doesn't need the ball and rebounds unselfishly. Marion would be an offensive minded Horace Grant playing with Kobe. Remember that Shawn Marion in his own right is an all-star, could be NBA first or second team, and has even been talked about as an MVP candidate AND he is on Nash's team. Can't say the same for Kobe.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fiyah:</div><div class="quote_post">Once again. Flawed logic. We can't determine who is more valuable to their team by saying how much better the player would be playing for ANOTHER team. That makes no sense.

Again I ask you... Does Nash add more wins to the Suns w/out Nash than Kobe adds more wins to the Lakers without Kobe? Answer that question first.
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Ok i'll answer, the lakers minus kobe would lose more games then the suns minus nash. However i could argue that the raptors without chris bosh in the lineup could theoretically not win another game this season. So that mean bosh is more important to the raptors winning than either kobe or nash are to their teams. are you willing to proclaim bosh the mvp then?

and i agree with shape the mvp is not based on who's on or who's not on the roster. People could have argued Magic johnson didn't deserve to win any MVP's becuase he had kareem and worthy on his team. just like people will now say nash has marion or billups has the wallaces etc.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Johnnybrasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok i'll answer, the lakers minus kobe would lose more games then the suns minus nash. However i could argue that the raptors without chris bosh in the lineup could theoretically not win another game this season. So that mean bosh is more important to the raptors winning than either kobe or nash are to their teams. are you willing to proclaim bosh the mvp then?

and i agree with shape the mvp is not based on who's on or who's not on the roster. People could have argued Magic johnson didn't deserve to win any MVP's becuase he had kareem and worthy on his team. just like people will now say nash has marion or billups has the wallaces etc.</div>

Good point.

Also, Fiyah, I could point out that not a single person mentioned Marion as an MVP candidate until later last year. Whoa! That was the year Nash arrived! Hmmm... That's not putting Marion down. Love the man. But ask Marion or Amare what Nash means to the team and their game.

I get your point, just don't agree. but we shall see. It's all speculation at this point.

j

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, that proves nothing about making his teammates better</div>

Do you have any concept of what stats are? That was not how many more points kobe scores when....whatever B.S. you said.

Anyhow, the rest of your argument about Steve Nash is pretty legit, because obviously he makes his teammates better, Marion, Raja Bell, Diop (was he actually bad b4 or did he just not get playing time) and Amare when he comes back.

But something you have to consider, the PG's job is to create opportunities for teammates and control the game. So of course Steve Nash is going to do those things- yes better than anyone since stockton, but it's easier to "make teammates better" from the PG position where thats your bread and butter, your role (no pun intended) on the team.

SG's are paid to score...Phil Jackson and Kobe love lamar odom because it takes the pressure off of Kobe from being the primary ball handler and play maker. Lamar Odom can do that, which allows Kobe do what he does best...and when he's doubled- he passes out to the open man (he's still working on that on lol). Anyhow, right now- I'd say the MVP is a toss up, there are great arguments for either Nash or Kobe.

 

81 points is ONE GAME. This is a long season.
Dirk is the MVP frontrunner right now.
To all you Kobe/Chaunce/Nash fans, and I like all those players, here is the evidence:

Lakers are 6-6 when Kobe goes under 30!
17-13 when Kobe has 30+
Analysis: Kobe's heroics don't improve the team all that much

Suns are 9-6 when Nash has under 10 assists
19-9 when Nash has 10+ assists
Analysis: Suns are decent when Nash is off his game; when he's on, they're a very good team

Pistons are 17-3 when Chauncey has under 20 points
19-2 when Chauncey has 20+
Analysis: They're unstoppable with or without Chauncey. How can he be the MVP?

Mavericks are 21-9 when Dirk goes under 30
12-1 when Dirk goes 30+
Analyis: Mavs are good without Dirk in top form; with Dirk in top form they're almost UNSTOPPABLE

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">I have to say Nash is the MVP frontrunner right now.
The key stat for me for an MVP candidate is this:
What is your team's record when you score 20?
WHen you score 30?
40?
And so on.
Kobe has had several 40+ games that ended up in a L. That is not just Not valuable to your team, that shows that you're SCREWING THE TEAM UP. By contrast, when we talk about the other MVP candidates, on their high scoring nights, their teams win. If Dirk scores 20+, the Mavs have a 90% chance of winning. He scores 30, they win, period. If you score over 40, and the team lose, how can you be you considered the most valuable player? You singlehandedly lost the game for your team. If you take more shots, the other guys have no chance to get into a rhythm and/or get hot or get confidence. You should win the LVP - Least Valuable Player on those nights, and Kobe has had a couple of nights like that.</div>

Hmmm.... go and check the stats. Compare the Lakers win % on nights Kobe scored more than 40 points to their win % on nights he did not. I am confident you will find that their win % when Kobe scores points is much higher than their win % when he doesn't.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyhow, the rest of your argument about Steve Nash is pretty legit, because obviously he makes his teammates better, Marion, Raja Bell, Diop (was he actually bad b4 or did he just not get playing time) and Amare when he comes back.</div>
Diop is on the Mavs. Diaw was never bad before, looking at his numbers he's doing what he could always do, just with more minutes and more confidence from his coach. His numbers this year are 11.9 PPG | 6.4 RPG | 5.9 APG | 1.02BPG | 33.1 MPG

If you look at his first season, he averaged 4.5 rebounds in 25.3 MPG, that would equate to 5.9 RPG in 33 MPG.

In his second season, he averaged 2.3 APG in 18.2 MPG, which would be 4.1 APG in 33 MPG. This year he's averaging 6.4 RPG and 5.9 APG on a faster paced team. In comparison to other years he's playing SF/PF/C as opposed to PG/SG/SF, so obviously being close to the basket with more rebound oppurtunities, you'd expect his rebounds to go up. Also in comparison to other years, his teammates are a lot better in terms of making shots and finishing, and this system emphasizes ball movement, so you can see where the assists increase comes from. The biggest one I see though is D'Antoni's confidence in him. Mike played in Europe before, and when Boris does something like get a travel with the "Euro step", Mike encourages him and tells him it's okay because he knows that's not a travel in Europe. Mike also doesn't emphasize that fact that he can't shoot, instead he emphasizes the fact that he can rebound, pass, score a little, defend, play all positions, and is athletic.

I've heard a lot of people saying Billups should not be MVP because his team is good, or full of All-Stars [Tayshaun and Rip aren't All-Stars at their positions] but what kinda of argument is that? Okay, let's say the Pistons lose Billups, they're still a Top team in the East according to most, though I don't even think better than someone than New Jersey outside of having a better frontcourt. So they're a 45-47 win team, let's say, because that's not a 50 win team without him. Now, with Billups they're on pace to 71 wins in the year, that's about a 23-25 win difference, so why isn't he valuable again?

With Nash and the Suns, if Nash goes out, they have 0 playmaking, well actually now they'd have Diaw, but they'd go to suckiness, from a 50ish win team, they become a high 30-low40 win team. If Marion goes out, it kills almost all their inside scoring, destroys their help defense, and takes away 12 RPG, and 22 PPG, again they become a high 30-40 win team. Either way, it doesn't take away value to the team from what Nash is doing for the team.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">experience alone gives them a big advantage... how many close games have the Lakers lost vs how many close games have the Suns lost?</div>
Actually while the experience is there, Phoenix has been quite weak in overtime, though it may be due to them having foul problems in most of the OT games. What makes them good down the stretch is that they have so many shooters, and just keep coming at you. Most teams can't keep up with that, even if they miss, they don't get down, they just score in the next 2 posessions.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I have to say Nash is the MVP frontrunner right now.
The key stat for me for an MVP candidate is this:
What is your team's record when you score 20?
WHen you score 30?
40?
And so on.
Kobe has had several 40+ games that ended up in a L. That is not just Not valuable to your team, that shows that you're SCREWING THE TEAM UP. By contrast, when we talk about the other MVP candidates, on their high scoring nights, their teams win. If Dirk scores 20+, the Mavs have a 90% chance of winning. He scores 30, they win, period. If you score over 40, and the team lose, how can you be you considered the most valuable player? You singlehandedly lost the game for your team. If you take more shots, the other guys have no chance to get into a rhythm and/or get hot or get confidence. You should win the LVP - Least Valuable Player on those nights, and Kobe has had a couple of nights like that.</div>
Lakers are 8-5 when Kobe scores over 40 points
Lakers are 6-6 when Kobe scores under 30 points

That can be interpreted 2 ways, they need him to score big to win, or since he's normally taking a lot of shots anyways, the days he isn't making his shots is when he's scoring less than 30.

 

SORRY This is a repost cause by the time i edited people put new messages:

81 points is ONE GAME. This is a long season.
Dirk is the MVP frontrunner right now.
To all you Kobe/Chaunce/Nash fans, and I like all those players, here is the evidence:

Lakers are 6-6 when Kobe goes under 30!
17-13 when Kobe has 30+
Analysis: Kobe's heroics don't improve the team all that much

Suns are 9-6 when Nash has under 10 assists
19-9 when Nash has 10+ assists
Analysis: Suns are decent when Nash is off his game; when he's on, they're a very good team

Pistons are 17-3 when Chauncey has under 20 points
19-2 when Chauncey has 20+
Analysis: They're unstoppable with or without Chauncey. How can he be the MVP?

Mavericks are 21-9 when Dirk goes under 30
12-1 when Dirk goes 30+
Analyis: Mavs are good without Dirk in top form; with Dirk in top form they're almost UNSTOPPABLE

 

i dont think kobe will get it, there are so many other players that are leading their teams in more W's, nash would probably get it

 

SORRY This is a repost cause by the time i edited people put new messages:

Fiyah your confidence doesn't mean much cause i checked it out

81 points is ONE GAME. This is a long season.
Dirk is the MVP frontrunner right now.
To all you Kobe/Chaunce/Nash fans, and I like all those players, here is the evidence:

Lakers are 6-6 when Kobe goes under 30!
17-13 when Kobe has 30+
Analysis: Kobe's heroics don't improve the team all that much

Suns are 9-6 when Nash has under 10 assists
19-9 when Nash has 10+ assists
Analysis: Suns are decent when Nash is off his game; when he's on, they're a very good team

Pistons are 17-3 when Chauncey has under 20 points
19-2 when Chauncey has 20+
Analysis: They're unstoppable with or without Chauncey. How can he be the MVP?

Mavericks are 21-9 when Dirk goes under 30
12-1 when Dirk goes 30+
Analyis: Mavs are good without Dirk in top form; with Dirk in top form they're almost UNSTOPPABLE

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">SORRY This is a repost cause by the time i edited people put new messages:

Fiyah your confidence doesn't mean much cause i checked it out

81 points is ONE GAME. This is a long season.
Dirk is the MVP frontrunner right now.
To all you Kobe/Chaunce/Nash fans, and I like all those players, here is the evidence:

Lakers are 6-6 when Kobe goes under 30!
17-13 when Kobe has 30+
Analysis: Kobe's heroics don't improve the team all that much

Suns are 9-6 when Nash has under 10 assists
19-9 when Nash has 10+ assists
Analysis: Suns are decent when Nash is off his game; when he's on, they're a very good team

Pistons are 17-3 when Chauncey has under 20 points
19-2 when Chauncey has 20+
Analysis: They're unstoppable with or without Chauncey. How can he be the MVP?

Mavericks are 21-9 when Dirk goes under 30
12-1 when Dirk goes 30+
Analyis: Mavs are good without Dirk in top form; with Dirk in top form they're almost UNSTOPPABLE</div>

Clearly you checked the wrong stats. Did I not say that their win % increases when Kobe scores 40 + points? Why then would you seek to prove me wrong by looking up stats on their win % when he scores 30+?

 

if the lakes make the playoffs in maybe 5th or 6th place then kobe deserves the mvp... its as simple as that...