<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jkidd51524 @ Mar 24 2006, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Getting shut down in the half court had nothing to do with JKidd. We had nobody to go to. Kerry Kittles wasnt going to take someone 1 on 1, and niether was keith van horn or kmart or tod mcahulph(however you spell his name) We didnt have a go to guy like the suns have.</div>The suns go to guy started with Nash and I feel Nash was a better go to guy in the half court than Kidd. Nash was able to penetrate and dish or score better than Kidd. Kidd is great in the fast break game and on defense but Nash is definitely the better offensive player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 24 2006, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Suns live and die with their offense so with Kidd they woul not run alot and the scoring would be down. 1 good defensive player would not change the mess they have in defense. I seriously doubt they would win their division with Kidd.</div>I am not sure if you watched basketball that much a few years ago, but when kidd had a bootlegged Suns team during their finals appearences (Kmart as Amare, Jefferson as RJ, Kittles as Joe Johnson, etc..), Kidd was tops in league in assists, Nets were top fastbreaking team, and Kidd was robbed of MVP twice. He also got his team to fianls twice, and even this year, people say Kidd is the perfect PG.
Man Kidd has got nothing on his team. He makes players into what they are yet Nash has always been surrounded by talent.This year it looks like Nash is playing but they are playing just as good as each other. Defense is key and Kidd wins that section but I'm to lazy to argue today lol.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 24 2006, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am not sure if you watched basketball that much a few years ago, but when kidd had a bootlegged Suns team during their finals appearences (Kmart as Amare, Jefferson as RJ, Kittles as Joe Johnson, etc..), Kidd was tops in league in assists, Nets were top fastbreaking team, and Kidd was robbed of MVP twice. He also got his team to fianls twice, and even this year, people say Kidd is the perfect PG.</div>We are talking about this year though, not a few seasons ago.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Mar 24 2006, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>hey did you forget about Eddie House, Leandro Barbosa, James Jones, Kurt Thomas and Boris Diaw, or did you purposely leave them out? Yeah, that's what i thought.</div>All those guys were not scoring options before they showed up with the Suns. Nash's run and gun offense helped them get easy baskets and Nash has made them look like great offensive players.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Mar 24 2006, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Man Kidd has got nothing on his team. He makes players into what they are yet Nash has always been surrounded by talent.This year it looks like Nash is playing but they are playing just as good as each other. Defense is key and Kidd wins that section but I'm to lazy to argue today lol.</div>Are you kidding me? Carter, Jefferson and Krstic are nothing? Understatement of the day. Nash would love to have that offensive talent on his team. Like I said before, only Bell and Marion were known as scorers on the Suns team right now, Nash's run and gun style gets them easy baskets thus making them look like great offensive players. Nash makes his players' better.What the heck does that mean??? Offense is way more key for a pg then defense. A pg is supposed to run a teams' offense so you're saying that guarding 1 man well is more important then running your WHOLE team's offense? Come on.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Mar 24 2006, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We are talking about this year though, not a few seasons ago.All those guys were not scoring options before they showed up with the Suns. Nash's run and gun offense helped them get easy baskets and Nash has made them look like great offensive players.</div>Youc an't compare them this year, though. They ar ein 2 totally different seasons. But, Kidd brought VC's 14PPG in Toronto last year to 27PPG in NJ, is making Krstic and RJ into stars, and is the main reason nets are even in playoff chase. Suns>>>>>>Nets as a team, even if you take both PG's away. I still take Kidd over Nash, as I am 100% sure he would do a better job with Suns than Nash.And once again, it isn't Nash's offense. he had a better team with Dallas, but they were a worse team. D'Antoni's offense makes Nash thrive.
I blame Nellie for not seeing how great of a point guard Nash is in a free flowing offense though I also say Marion is a big part of Nash's success since Marion thrives in the style the suns play now. Neither Barbosa or Marbury could play that style. Almost all of the suns offense starts with Nash. Kidd is a great player but I think Nash gives other teams more nightmares on how to stop him. He can kill you by his scoring or passing and Kidd is mainly just passing.
He is agreeing with me. He is showing that Nash wasn't nearly as effective in another offense, and only offense he is nearly as effective as Kidd is in the extremely fast paced fastbreak offense (which Kidd has proven he can do too). As for scoring, Nash's points come off of easy layups. Kidd could average 20PPG with Suns on the fastbreak. I agree Nash is a better scorer overall, but not that much better.
He proved my point that Nash isn't nearly as valuable in an offense outside of the one the Suns have now. I shouldn't have said agreed, but largely proved my point.
The Mavs still scored 105 ppg but Nash couldn't get them to score 110 points like the suns. lol. The nets were never close to that number.
Nets also never had Dirk, Antoine Walker, etc... Nash wasn't as effective as an individual because it was more about halfcourt offense, and Dirk was most productive. Nash leaving actually made Dirk better.
Dirk got better by his improvments in the off season by working on his one on one game. It had nothing to do with Nash leaving. Nash though fits better in the suns system than the mavs but either way he has increased the scoring of both teams.
Dirk does better without Steve because the ball was always in Steve's hand. Without Steve, it allowed Dirk to be more of a one on one player, instead of being a spot up shoote rto Nash setting him up.Yep, both players fit perfectly into the systems they are in at this moment. Nash's potential is reached with Suns, and Dirk is in a great position as the superstar on a great team built around him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Mar 24 2006, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Mavs still scored 105 ppg but Nash couldn't get them to score 110 points like the suns. lol. The nets were never close to that number.</div>The Mavs also couldn't hold there opponents to under 100. It doesn't matter about stats like that because Kidd gets the win when he does not even score.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 24 2006, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He proved my point that Nash isn't nearly as valuable in an offense outside of the one the Suns have now. I shouldn't have said agreed, but largely proved my point.</div>I agree with that as well. I just think he is doing great in the fast break offense.
I stated "who is better in their prime" which I think some people are not understanding. Anyhow, at this point in their respective careers, I don't see how one doesn't pick Nash. Nash is a bterr scorer, not just passer, but a superioir shooter from all angles. He is also much better at creating his own shot. The man shoots 51%, which is impressive for a center, even more so for a poing guard. However anyone knows that both these guys have made careers as passers, which at this point Nash is also better in. All you have to do is watch the teams play, and you will see that Nash is consistently creating for teammates in both the halfcourt and fullcourt. Jason Kidd however really only creates in the fullcourt, and is not near the drive and kick player Nash is. Right now, both play mediocre defense, and Jason has the edge in the rebounding department. Nash wins now.Look at their entire career however, as I stated, and this comparison is heavily in favor of JKidd. In his prime, Jason Kidd was a great defender, grabbing 2+ SPG. While he has never had the overall offensive reputoire Nash has, he has always been a superioir scorer on the fastbreak. Kidd might be the most underrated finisher at the basket of all time. In the passing department, Jason was in a league of his own, always being a 10+ assist threat throughout his career. If you compare Nash of now to Kidd of 3 years ago, Kidd was a better rebounder, defender, and slightly better passer. Not to mention he's been in the Finals twice in his career to Nash's zero. And you think Nash leading Phoenix from 20 wins to 60 was impressive? JKidd led the Nets from 20 wins to a Finals appearance in a one year span.Kidd wins it
Both teams were up and coming. Nash with Amare and Marion and Kidd with Martin and Jefferson. The nets were also in the weak east and if they played the suns in a series the suns would win. The suns however have to get through San Antonio and neither team could do that. The spurs are also better now than 2003 which makes it that much harder to get out of the west.
And Nets as a whole were VERY weak outside of Kidd. As I said before, Kidd made Martin into an all star, where outside of NJ he has been a nothing. Jefferson is only effective because Kidd gets him open looks. He would not fair well as an isolation scorer, as he still doesn't have a jump shot. The rest of the team isn't as good as Suns this year or last year, also. Yet, Kidd brought them through playoffs into Finals twice, brought SA to 6 games, brought the champion Pistons to 7 games, both of which I doubt Suns could ahve done last year.
I just came back from nets vs Suns, and guess what? Kidd is better. He STOPPED Nash. Nash had 0 points and only 5 assists. Suns scored season low 45 points through 3 quarters. Kidd did an amazing job on Nash defensively,and had 10/9/7.That is why kidd is better. period. BTW, the game was horrible. Thank god I'm gonna see Heat play nets on Sunday.
