Stifled Voices, Disillusioned Posters and the Death of a Community

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by ly_yng, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    He was a good kid. Really a genius. Great poster who kept the site afloat.

    That's what everyone who gets banned is, right?

    Ed O.
     
  2. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    With all due respect, weren't a number of posters on the Blazers board banned on another site, which led to them coming here? What would you say to any moderators at that site who posted a message similar to one you have just made?
     
  3. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Two or three were banned. I guess that's a number, sure.

    And I would say, "Hey! Good call. Just because someone is young it doesn't excuse them being a pain in the ass, and repeatedly attempting to downgrade the site through personal attacks and nonsensical posts is in no way excused by their alleged intelligence."

    I would also say, "I respect your opinion. You being a mod doesn't really mean your opinion is worth more, but it also should not be discounted merely because your name is in red."

    Of course, the circumstances are markedly different. The people that were banned at BBF were banned with very little warning by moderators that had almost no contact with them until the decision was made to cap their asses. In this case, it was an ongoing circus and even the defenders of those being banned claim that they were protesting the policies of the admins by acting up.

    Further, the aftermath of the BBF bannings were CMs shutting threads down and attacking posters who wanted to know why the rules had suddenly changed. In this case, the Admins are the ones who made the decisions and are the ones who are participating in the conversations afterwards.

    Ed O.
     
  4. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    I think that pretty much sums it up. For my part, I feel I was quite open to reasonable dialog. My impression of their impression of "reasonable dialog", however, is that we should have done whatever they wanted, or they were going to protest, get mad, and take our ball and go home. And that's neither reasonable nor dialog.

    Much like your recent post in the nets forum, I don't see any constructive response to it. I get that you're mad about all of this, and I am too, but as much as I'd like to keep these folks around, I don't see how we can keep around folks who pretty openly say screw the rules and screw you.
     
  5. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    Hey all, kobimel posting from Jerusalem. I'm fine, by the way. A message from War_Poet:

    4 were banned here, I guess that's a number.

    You're ignoring users for not being in blue.

    None of the posters were given warning before their ban. Kid Chocolate hadn't even posted in a month. GMJ was threatened, but didn't do anything after being threatened. Pegs said something out of line, but not nearly up to par with the bickering and name calling on the Blazer board. I (War_Poet) wasn't notified at all, about a ban.

    Something that started this whole disagreement was Denny adding a new rule claiming he could oust posters from their second accounts. changing the rules on the fly! Tim and BG7's threads were closed.

    What did you expect them to do? Stand outside of the court with their head's hung while they let everyone else play with their ball?
     
  6. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Actually there were dozens banned over the years that we posted there. ABM and maxiep are the only ones that had any significant impact on the migration from my perspective. I added the "or three" on the off chance I forgot someone.

    I'm ignoring no one. I don't lend the same weight to everyone's opionion because the Admins have the most at stake in this venture and if I have to choose between rabble rousers and the admins that make this site possible and enjoyable, I'll choose the Admins.

    I don't believe you. Sorry. I just don't. I saw GMJ start shit in the Blazers forum within days (and maybe hours) of his getting banned. I didn't complain about it to anyone (other than as a poster in the thread itself), and I don't know that that is the reason that he was banned, but I find it hard to believe that your version of events is accurate based on what I saw in the weeks and months leading up to the decisions on the part of the Administrators. I trust in the admins and their decision-making much more than I do you.

    Ed O.
     
  7. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Err... no. Your response, though, is pretty indicative of how they seemed to see things.

    To keep the metaphor going, nobody was forcing them out while everyone else played. They had every opportunity to play here (under extremely permissive rules) just like everyone else. But like everyone else, they needed to play by the rules. They're perfectly free to suggest rule changes, and they're perfectly free to go somewhere else if we don't agree to those changes. But if they want to stay and play, they have to respect the rules even if they don't agree with them.

    Just like on the court. If a group of guys are playing, and you propose that if you score, you get the ball back, you're perfectly free to. If they don't agree to your rule though, and you still try to keep the ball after you score, there's gonna be a problem. It's really not any more complicated than that.
     
  8. ghoti

    ghoti A PhD in Horribleness

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    They only chose that option when no others were presented.

    Was that the outcome that was best for S2?
     
  9. ly_yng

    ly_yng Active Member

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    You've also said that the rules are intentionally very vague. One consequence of that is that the line between what is a rule, what should be a rule and was is clearly wrong becomes fuzzy. Posters are going to take more liberties with the rules if it's not clear where the lines are.

    It seems to me that rather than trying to clarify these lines for the posters, you just decided to take the easy way out and ban them.
     
  10. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    But see, that's the point. Other options were presented. We valued those guys a lot, and we worked for quite a while to accommodate what, to me, seems to be pretty unreasonable behavior and requests on their part. But I generally tried to stay out of that business, assuming that guys like you, Mr. Commissioner, knew what you were doing. Other options were presented, but none of those, as best I could tell, would have relieved those guys of their desire to have an axe to grind someone.

    So was that the best outcome?

    The outcome that was best for S2 would have been for them to continue to post and contribute here while not going out and trying to grind an axe on the site because Denny had the temerity to not let them have their way on pretty much everything.

    But letting them have their way wouldn't have been bad for S2 because they appeared, from what I can tell, to be actively trying to piss people off, run them off, and actively antagonize other communities here.

    So, Mr. Commissioner (or Mr. Global Moderator on the new forums of the site that just de-linked us), what are you doing that's "best for S2"? Just tell me one more time, because I somehow missed the detailed set of options you laid out over the last several months to solve the world's problems.
     
  11. ghoti

    ghoti A PhD in Horribleness

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    I hope blaming me for failures that had nothing to do with me makes you feel better.

    I gave my input, which I believe was extremely useful. From your tone I assume you have no idea what it was, which doesn't surprise me and is indicative of the problem.

    As for the new forum, I'm extremely glad it exists because Nets discussion is why I became involved in helping run these message boards in the first place.

    I like the S2 community and wish that everyone could have stayed and posted together throughout the entire site.
     
  12. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Do you realize, right, that these guys were all members of the staff at one time or another, and thus, were actually in charge of enforcing the rules (for quite a while) they were breaking?
     
  13. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Not really, but it didn't make me feel any worse either.

    You gave next to no input. I don't remember seeing much of anything over the last several months from you. You know we can't dredge up all the mod forum stuff here, but feel free to PM me if there's something substantial I missed. I went back and doubled and triple checked and see very little. Really nothing of note in the threads full of hundreds of posts from other staff members on these subjects.

    Me too. You seem, however, to be pretty actively trying to undermine it, which is something I don't do to things I like.
     
  14. ghoti

    ghoti A PhD in Horribleness

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    I don't participate in e-drama. Adults handle things professionally and that is how I provided input. The advice I gave was 100% correct and the current situation is something that would have been avoided had those who needed it cared enough to actually listen. The fact that you don't know anything about it, yet feel comfortable being openly hostile is just one more demonstration why, unfortunately, there was a necessity for a Nets forum elsewhere.
     
  15. bbwMax

    bbwMax Member

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    I agree with the G-man, Could have all avoided this stupid E-drama had the people up top just listened, to say they went out to harm the site isn't right, they were pissed that a lot of the staff team were sucking the Blazers ass, which TBH I would've been too, you seemed to forget about them in the sudden rush of Blazer fans to S2, they were simply seeking attention IMO, attention that was needed, and as for you to catch MNFL in that clause was harsh, GMJ and co. were all tight and MNFL was a great Moderator and a great overall contributor, he was young hence his few immature outbursts.

    and as a result the 2nd biggest section is an admin and a mod down and S2 has lost some great posters. Just my view.

    And M21 has gone aswell :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2009
  16. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    cpaw - GMJ - KC - WP

    So basically the administration alienated the entire core of the Nets forum. Good job guys! :cheers:

    The Nets forum now pretty much consists of a bunch of Yi jockers. Every thread I read is Yi this Yi that. Others have moved on to greener pastures, and I don't blame them.
     
  17. MikeDC

    MikeDC Member

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    Yeah... your posting in this thread and a couple on the Nets board is certainly non-participation in e-drama.

    You provided no input.

    No, I do know something about it. The record shows that you said next to nothing. Again, feel free to PM me and show me where I'm wrong. I'm not being hostile, I'm simply pointing out that fact in response to your non-participation of this e-drama.

    Your response to that was more public dodge and weave instead of simply sending me a PM and showing me where I'm wrong. Because, you know, being one of the head staff members of this site means the professional, adult thing for you to do is to come into a public complaint thread, complain, and then publicly complain some more when you're called on it.

    That's very un-dramatic, I agree. :ghoti:

    So again, how about you just cut the shit. PM me, or take it to the staff board and show me. You know, all adult and professional-like. I'll be happy to publicly apologize if you show me to be wrong.
     
  18. ghoti

    ghoti A PhD in Horribleness

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    If anyone needed more evidence as to why the best posters, moderators and administrators were frustrated with the current admins of this forum, all they have to do is read your last four posts.

    What I have posted is as much information as I feel is needed. Those who read what I have actually written and not your uninformed interpretation of it (which I encourage anyone who cares to simply disregard) can either believe me or not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2009
  19. Really Lost One

    Really Lost One Suspended

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    I believe you. :cheers:
     
  20. Dumpy

    Dumpy Yi-ha!!

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    I see this thread has gotten off-topic. May I ask why it is permitted for the tag on the oral sex thread to be "Charles Barkley's penis?" If I remember correctly, when Barkley had a colonoscopy a few months ago, there were some strong negative reactions by the admins when a thread discussing the procedure was tagged with "Charles Barkley's ass." It may, in fact, have contributed to Kid Chocolate's first ban, but I have no knowledge of that. Obviously, you can run this site however you wish. I suspect, however, that one of the things that has frustrated some of these posters is an apparent lack of consistency between the way they were treated and the way other posters were (or are) treated. I've been a bit skeptical of that claim, but the "Charles Barkley's penis" tag now makes me wonder. Shouldn't that be removed, and the person who created that thread warned or disciplined somehow? What do you think? It's not just Mike and Denny I am asking. What does everyone reading this thread think? Would it frustrate you if you were disciplined or warned about behavior that others can apparently engage in? Again, Mike and Denny, you've created a great site here, but that should not necessarily prevent you from rethinking the site policies, or the way that they are applied. Just my two cents.
     

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