<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 18 2007, 01:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No, you're wrong. Nobody would have taken on Raef's contract in a deal last summer unless we sweetened the deal with that pick. It's honestly not an opinion, it is a fact. That's why Ainge pulled the trigger on this devilish deal (in you guys' eyes), because he knew that was his only opportunity to move it.</div>but who's to say he couldn't have gotten a better deal. maybe he did indeed think Telfair was gonna be a good PG for the team.it is specualtion. What's been reported is that he was told to get rid of Raef's contract. How he did it was up to Ainge. I'm of the opinion that he coulda done better with the #7 pick in the draft, you're satisfied.difference of opinion is all it is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ May 18 2007, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>but who's to say he couldn't have gotten a better deal. maybe he did indeed think Telfair was gonna be a good PG for the team. it is specualtion. What's been reported is that he was told to get rid of Raef's contract. How he did it was up to Ainge. I'm of the opinion that he coulda done better with the #7 pick in the draft, you're satisfied. difference of opinion is all it is.</div> I'm not "satisfied" and I don't think "oh, this was a great move!" But I understand the reason for it, it was simply a financial move. And yes, if we packaged different players, we could have gotten more on paper, but this was the only opportunity Ainge had to deal Raef's contract (if you honestly can't see that, you're blind). What has been reported about the organization giving Ainge orders? I've heard it on FSN from Greg Dickerson (around the team/organization a lot), I've heard it from the Celtics Pride guys (Jeff Hickman, Patrick Gilroy), and my common sense also told me. Nobody is going to take Raef LaFrentz' $11-12M/year contract, which had THREE years left on it at the time, in a trade unless we overpaid. How can you not see that?
You keep talking about wasting Pierce's prime and finding Brandon Roy playing time as the two biggest criticisms of using the #7 pick instead of trading it. If we drafted Roy then some combination of Allen/West/Green would've been traded effectively eliminating any logjam at the position. Remember at the beginning of last season both Green and Allen had proven nothing to anyone. Of course the pick also could have been dealt for something of value instead of Telfair who had just lost all his minutes to Steve Blake and Juan Dixon on a horrible team.Secondly Ainge just wasted a year of Pierces prime by putting together a team filled with young guards who aren't ready to compete at a playoff level. If we'd brought in Roy, who was considered before the draft the most NBA ready player available, or traded the pick for a forward/center then the Celtics are instantly much more competitive and barring the injury to Pierce are probably a playoff team. While we're waiting for Wally's and Lafrentz's contracts to become trade bait Pierce would have Roy to play along side him and Jefferson. How would that be wasting his prime? The way it is now he could end up with just Jefferson and Brandon Wright with no trade bait unless Ainge is ever able to pull the trigger on a deal that doesn't cripple the franchise for years. I'm not too optimistic about Danny's capability of landing a marquee player that doesn't have knees made of porcelain. He'll probably trade Theo's deal for Mike Dunleavy straight up.
[quote name='Living_Legend33' post='358857' date='May 18 2007, 06:47 PM']You keep talking about wasting Pierce's prime and finding Brandon Roy playing time as the two biggest criticisms of using the #7 pick instead of trading it. If we drafted Roy then some combination of Allen/West/Green would've been traded effectively eliminating any logjam at the position. Remember at the beginning of last season both Green and Allen had proven nothing to anyone. Of course the pick also could have been dealt for something of value instead of Telfair who had just lost all his minutes to Steve Blake and Juan Dixon on a horrible team.[/quote] That is all speculation, you don't know that they would have been dealt at all. Gerald Green's value was actually much higher back then and they were very impressed with TA in camp. Yeah, "let's just trade for a center." That is so much easier said than done, it's not even funny. And for the millionth time, yes... we could have traded that pick and gotten a better player in return, but it was a financial move going in. I've also agreed that it wasn't the best deal in the world at all, but I do understand it. Look, I would have loved Brandon Roy in Boston. He has been my favorite rookie from the get-go, I loved him at Washington, but it wasn't the worst trade known to man like you're trying to make it sound, and another 2-guard wasn't needed. Danny's trades have been beyond questionable, except a couple, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to go out there and improve this team this summer unless he does screw up. He has admitted to making some bad decisions, maybe he has learned from it. I'm not ready to get all negative right now.
I wasn't saying they would've been traded, but that if Roy was drafted they could've been traded to get someone pretty good who would balance the roster. Trading for a center is harder said then done, but it's not impossible, and they could've traded Allen/Green/West for a PG as well. It didn't have to be a center.While another shooting guard may not have been needed it's worth it to upgrade the position when you have the chance, especially when the guys currently occupying it are all unproven.What it comes down to is a difference in philosophies and opinions. You think Green, West, and Allen are worth giving time to develop, while I would've just given their time to Roy because he's the better player. You seem to like drafting based on need, whereas I'd base it on talent. One thing we can both agree on though, is that things are about to either get very negative or very positive within the next few days.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 18 2007, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What it comes down to is a difference in philosophies and opinions. You think Green, West, and Allen are worth giving time to develop, while I would've just given their time to Roy because he's the better player. You seem to like drafting based on need, whereas I'd base it on talent.</div> That's something I want to get straight right now: had we kept that pick, drafting Brandon Roy was a no-brainer and a half. I don't support drafting based on need over BPA, I was just stating that we didn't necessarily need another SG and getting financial relief (and/or a trading chip) wasn't a bad idea. But there is no question that Brandon Roy was the best player in this draft from the start, and if we kept it we obviously would have/should have taken Roy, but the deal doesn't baffle me. So, I just wanted to get that straight before this "argument" (which was just us talking in circles and not changing our opinions, which was expected) dies down.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 18 2007, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's something I want to get straight right now: had we kept that pick, drafting Brandon Roy was a no-brainer and a half. I don't support drafting based on need over BPA, I was just stating that we didn't necessarily need another SG and getting financial relief (and/or a trading chip) wasn't a bad idea. But there is no question that Brandon Roy was the best player in this draft from the start, and if we kept it we obviously would have/should have taken Roy, but the deal doesn't baffle me.So, I just wanted to get that straight before this "argument" (which was just us talking in circles and not changing our opinions, which was expected) dies down.</div>Oh come on, you really wouldn't have taken Patrick O'Bryant? Just admit it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 18 2007, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh come on, you really wouldn't have taken Patrick O'Bryant? Just admit it. </div> I actually would have traded out of the draft for a 2009 pick so we can pick Jeremiah Rivers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 18 2007, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I actually would have traded out of the draft for a 2009 pick so we can pick Jeremiah Rivers. </div>Good lord. The only thing that even comes close to that would be if we ended up with #3 and Hasheem Thabeet was still available. :shok:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 18 2007, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>this was the only opportunity Ainge had to deal Raef's contract (if you honestly can't see that, you're blind).</div>again this is specualtion on your part, and I can honeslty see that and say it because you're not a member of the organization. How do you know it was the only opportunity?he may have been able to be patient and make a better trade, we'll never know.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 18 2007, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What has been reported about the organization giving Ainge orders? I've heard it on FSN from Greg Dickerson (around the team/organization a lot), I've heard it from the Celtics Pride guys (Jeff Hickman, Patrick Gilroy), and my common sense also told me. Nobody is going to take Raef LaFrentz' $11-12M/year contract, which had THREE years left on it at the time, in a trade unless we overpaid. How can you not see that?</div>I'd heard it too, though not directly.also you mentioned it first that Ainge was told to move Raef.sorry if I took your word for it.so it makes your point even more speculative that this was the only opportunity to move Raef.I too can see that moving Raef's contarct was good, but can we agree that Ainge didn't get the best deal possible? He shoulda got more for the #7 pick. Even if trading it moved Raef's burgeoning contract. I think he wasn't patient enough.
CelticFan, that was the price he had to pay to actually move Raef's contract. I don't have to be a part of the organization to tell you that this was the only opportunity he had to move an $11M/3year contract of a well below average player with chronic knee problems. It would be like moving Wally's contract this summer, except harder since Wally can still actually play when healthy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ May 22 2007, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fifth overall pick and Ratliff for Pau Gasol Think Memphis bites?</div> Add Gerald Green and likely Delonte West, and they might consider it. But you've got the right mindset, we now HAVE TO go out and bring in a guy like Gasol/Jermaine. Someone. A veteran All-Star player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 22 2007, 11:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Add Gerald Green and likely Delonte West, and they might consider it. But you've got the right mindset, we now HAVE TO go out and bring in a guy like Gasol/Jermaine. Someone. A veteran All-Star player.</div>Trade to the pacers and the pacers can draft Conley Jr.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ May 22 2007, 11:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Trade to the pacers and the pacers can draft Conley Jr.</div> If Atlanta is smart, they will pick Conley at 3. They need a point guard so bad and Conley is a good prospect. If not, and they take a Brandan Wright or Al Horford, Memphis could possibly take Conley at 4. It depends.
no that would be retarded celticballa ok they need a PG EVERYONE knows that but theres wayy to much talent that you cant pass on just for conley and honestly conley could easily drop to 11. memphis took lowry last year they wudnt look at conley
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pistol @ May 23 2007, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>no that would be retarded celticballa ok they need a PG EVERYONE knows that but theres wayy to much talent that you cant pass on just for conley and honestly conley could easily drop to 11. memphis took lowry last year they wudnt look at conley</div> I don't see Conley slipping past Atlanta (3), Memphis (4), and Milwaukee (6). He won't slip down to 11. Also, Lowry looks like a nice young point guard (who I really like, by the way), but Conley is certainly the much better prospect with more upside. Memphis would certainly consider Conley.
Boston Trades Theo Ratliff #5 overall pick Delonte West Sebastian Telfair Maybe a future pick (top 5 protected), if necessary Memphis Trades Pau Gasol S&T Chucky Atkins for some of the MLE We get ourselves an All-Star 7 footer, that wants out of Memphis anyway, and a decent veteran point guard for a reasonable price (who also won't re-sign with Memphis)... while keeping Gerald Green. Memphis rebuilds, gets the #4 and #5 pick and gets either Conley/Wright with 4 and either Horford/Brewer with 5. They get a nice young guard in Delonte and they get about $12M in cap relief at the end of the year. While it's a bit of a low-ball offer without Green in there, I think this does make a lot of sense for both teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 23 2007, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boston TradesTheo Ratliff#5 overall pickDelonte WestSebastian TelfairMaybe a future pick (top 5 protected), if necessaryMemphis TradesPau GasolS&T Chucky Atkins for some of the MLEWe get ourselves an All-Star 7 footer, that wants out of Memphis anyway, and a decent veteran point guard for a reasonable price (who also won't re-sign with Memphis)... while keeping Gerald Green. Memphis rebuilds, gets the #4 and #5 pick and gets either Conley/Wright with 4 and either Horford/Brewer with 5. They get a nice young guard in Delonte and they get about $12M in cap relief at the end of the year.While it's a bit of a low-ball offer without Green in there, I think this does make a lot of sense for both teams.</div>I'm not sure Memphis takes that. It's possible, especially with their current ownership situation. I'm sure getting rid of 12 mill in salary is appealing to somebody trying to sell a team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 23 2007, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boston TradesTheo Ratliff#5 overall pickDelonte WestSebastian TelfairMaybe a future pick (top 5 protected), if necessaryMemphis TradesPau GasolS&T Chucky Atkins for some of the MLEWe get ourselves an All-Star 7 footer, that wants out of Memphis anyway, and a decent veteran point guard for a reasonable price (who also won't re-sign with Memphis)... while keeping Gerald Green. Memphis rebuilds, gets the #4 and #5 pick and gets either Conley/Wright with 4 and either Horford/Brewer with 5. They get a nice young guard in Delonte and they get about $12M in cap relief at the end of the year.While it's a bit of a low-ball offer without Green in there, I think this does make a lot of sense for both teams.</div>If I were Grizzlies I would do this in a heartbeat, why, because getting the 4th and 5th picks are huge.
