I like this trade for the Suns... I mean they give up Marbury and Hardaway and this is what they get - GREAT potential in Lampe and Milos Vujanic - 2 first-round draft picks - relief from their cap situation, allowing them to sign a good free agent This might not be that good for this year, but they eventually definitely get the better end of this trade (if they get a good player either in the draft or the free agent market). I give this trade a thumbs up for thinking in the future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Prophecy:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns will have roughly about 8 million in cap room. And that's not even if they resign anyone. If they resign someone like Dice they could only end up with about 3 or 4 mil in cap. Which is basicly nothing now a days. I don't agree with this trade really.</div>Not sure what you mean, the Suns WILL have more than 20 million under the cap next season... then it's trying to get Kobe or Rasheed or Nash -- knowing the Suns they'll end up with Rasheed who will cause problems and most likely be injured, wasting 20 million per year for 6 years or until Colangelo can trade him for nothing!! The Suns lose BIG right now... this season is a flush, and the Colangelos have just admitted it by pulling this trade. I am happy they save all that money, but what's it good for if they can't get Kobe? Rasheed and Nash won't help much, it'll be Kobe or bust. Oh and those 2 draft picks? The Suns might have 3 picks, the Knicks, their's (if the Spurs don't get it, not sure what the conditions are for the pick), and the Cavs (if the Cavs MAKE the playoffs) in the next draft... but who's in it that the Suns can use? Pavel Podkolzine, Emeka Okafor, and perhaps Ha Seung-Jin. Pavel and Emeka are gonna be top 5, which would be unlikely any of the picks would land in... and Seung-Jin is projected in the mid-1st round range, so he's not worth taking 7th-10th which I project one of the picks will land on. What they are going to do is draft Ben Gordon or some tall skinny Euro player (whom they don't need) -- YES the Suns definately are going Euro... that's what D'Antoni wants, he's a Euro-type coach. I am down on this trade (from the Suns' perspective) unless they can sign a top free agent, get good draft picks (which I doubt, based on the 2004 weak draft), and Milos Vujanic turns out to be outstanding! P.S.>> I HATE MCDYESS... I hope he gets boo'd, I haven't forgotten what he did!! He's on that list with John Paxson... 'cept Dyess can redeem himself if he plays well and signs back with us next year for the Vet MINIMUM!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">Not sure what you mean, the Suns WILL have more than 20 million under the cap next season.</div> Yea they sure will, actually it's more than 30 million under the cap next year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple N Gold:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea they sure will, actually it's more than 30 million under the cap next year.</div> The number just keeps rising and rising huh. Let's hope the Suns sign someone right this time around, Penny Hardaway was a waste.
So this is what needs to happen to get posts in the Suns forum, eh? Seriously, though, I'm pissed off. Not because I think the Suns are getting the raw end of the deal or anything, but because I have become such a huge fan of Marbury that I really hate to see him go. I mean REALLY hate to see him go. He was what made the team run, he said he loved it here in Phoenix, he said Phoenix was a new start. However, in every in depth interview with Steph he always says he wants to play for NY eventually so this was inevitable. The season is more than over, unless these guys really overachieve. Barbosa is a decent PG, but still makes a lot of mistakes because he is young and still adapting. Would JJ go to PG for the time being with CJ going to SG? I would despise that. The other thing about Marbury was that he was the only one who can create his own shot. Marion still hasn't learned to get himself shots and Amare is out right now. About the draft picks, with the Suns' luck, the Knicks will get on a roll and win the NBA Finals. I dunno, right now I'm confused and need to analyze the trade some more. I'll type more once I can get the feelings back in my hands (just got done playing some ball and it's freakin' freezing outside).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">So this is what needs to happen to get posts in the Suns forum, eh? </div> YES! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">because I have become such a huge fan of Marbury that I really hate to see him go.</div> Yeah me too, Marbury reminded me of KJ, and I was his biggest supporter... I'm really glad he's happy going to NY though. He's a good guy, nothing like I thought he was in Minnesota and New Jersey, and he's definately one of the best PGs in the league!! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">The season is more than over, unless these guys really overachieve. Barbosa is a decent PG, but still makes a lot of mistakes because he is young and still adapting.</div> Yup, but he sure is fast... reminds me of Clyde Drexler, MAN he's fast!!
They won't have 30 million after this season. They are like 15-20 million over now and they have about 30 million in expiring. So that will be about 10-15 mil.(probably closer to the 15 though). btw scorbutic, their pick is likely lottery, and there is a possibility that the Knicks won't get good chemistry right away, which could ruin their chances at the playoffs, so they could potentially have 2 lotto picks I'm glad the Suns got rid of Penny. I'm a huge Magic fan, but I hate Penny now. He's an injured arrogant SOB. In a fairy tale land, this would be the best case scenario. pg-barbosa and vujanic, live up to their potential and play great ball sg-kobe, sign him from free agency sf-marion, superstar pf-amare, superstar c-Okafor, Suns high lotto With Lampe who develops into a great 6th man.
I don't like this trade from Phoenix's point of view, they give up an All-Star point guard (Marbury) and good shooting guard (Penny) for scraps from the Knicks table. McDyess may never relocate his All-Star calibre skills; Eisley and rest are just plain garbage in the crazily talented and dominant Western Conference. It seems that the Suns have decided to scrap the season and rebuild for the future. Given that they'll find themselves in a situation to acquire Kobe Bryant in 2004, that appears to be what they're looking towards. New York, in the short term, definitely came out on the better end of this deal.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sportsrock37:</div><div class="quote_post"> btw scorbutic, their pick is likely lottery, and there is a possibility that the Knicks won't get good chemistry right away, which could ruin their chances at the playoffs, so they could potentially have 2 lotto picks In a fairy tale land, this would be the best case scenario. pg-barbosa and vujanic, live up to their potential and play great ball sg-kobe, sign him from free agency sf-marion, superstar pf-amare, superstar c-Okafor, Suns high lotto With Lampe who develops into a great 6th man.</div> Yes they could have 2 lotto picks and the 14th pick (Cavs make playoffs but as the 8th seed) but we're just not that lucky besides I don't want a lot of picks in THIS draft... the 2003 draft was good, but the 2004 isn't the best draft to have a lot of picks, but then again who knows what the 2005 draft will shape up to be? It's hard for me to judge the 100 Euros in the draft, so perhaps they are great, I just wouldn't know!! Okafor isn't NBA Center material, Stoudamire is taller and bigger... but Okafor would make an awesome 6th man coming in to play defense, ya know that thing the Suns don't do? He's in the Ben Wallace mold... but they can wait for Ike Diogu which plays the same style. Okafor out of the 3 is obviously the best scorer.
If Pheonix was going to throw in the towel, they should of done it a year ago. Then they would have a shot at Lebron . Today marks Pheonix's rebuilding period. They have obviously given up on this season, and probably the next one too (unless they get Kobe in the off-season). The truth is that Pheonix wasn't going to win a title anytime with their squard anyways. They are taking a risk this way and are banking on the patience and loyalty of their fans. It will probably take about 3-5 years to fully analyze who got the better deal of this trade. btw, they would be fools to trade Marion or Stoudimire.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">Not sure what you mean, the Suns WILL have more than 20 million under the cap next season... </div> It's simple adding and subtracting. Dyess= 13.5 Googs= 11.5 (roughly) Ward= 6.0 S. Williams= 1.0 --------- 32. million expiring The Suns payroll is 63 million 63 - 32. ---------- 31 million. The current salery cap is set at 42.5 Therefore they have 11.5 mil in cap. BUT, you must figure in rise in contracts. Which is about 3.5 mil in all. There fore bringing them to around 8 mil in cap.
As far as I know the salary cap is a joke... if the cap is 42.5 then 26 out of 29 teams are currently over that, 17 of those teams are 10+ million over. The tax threshold on the other hand is what teams are worried about. The info I hear is 60 million is what the Suns are looking to spend (currently they are at roughly 63) -- so according to your math, they will have 31 million used next year... 60-31 = 29 million (more than 20). Somebody with a better understand of the cap can clear this up... I haven't spent much time reading about how the cap works or how teams can exceed it by almost 50 million (New York).
the Suns will save $20 million to $25 million in salary and luxury tax costs through the 2004-05 season.
Well, the cap space also helps for a possible sign-and-trade scenerio. It makes their options more flexible.
Vintage said he'll evaluate the trade more from a cap perspective, and he's great at that. I just read an article on the Suns website that said they'll have around $26.5 million off after this season. I'm not sure where that leaves them at, but that article said that isn't enough money to sign someone like Kobe to a max contract. With Lampe that leaves White, Voskuhl, Amare, Harvey, and Lampe as the go to guys in the frontcourt. I don't think that's enough PT for everyone, so who will be the odd-man out? Will the Suns use this year to develop Lampe and keep White playing? I already don't like the PF/C carousel (sp?), and this just adds a little more to it. The Suns are already excited about Vujanic, but if Barbosa can play the way he is playing tonight, I don't think the Suns will have too many problems at PG. I'm still worried about where the offensive production will come from in a go-to guy standpoint. Will the reins to the team officially be handed over to Amare or will the Suns give it to Marion in hopes he will develop a true scorer mentality? Have the conditions of the pick that was traded been announced? Now I'm going to be paying even more attention than I already have to draft prospects. Questions is, where are the Suns going to use two lottery picks at? If Vujanic is the man at PG, Marion at SF, Amare at PF, Lampe at C that leaves SG. I really think JJ is good enough to stay as the Suns' SG of the future so I don't think the Suns should pursue an SG in the draft. The Suns also already have backups at every position basically, and who wants to waste two lottery picks as bench players. Maybe a sign and trade can be worked out so the Suns will get a big free-agent name. However, in a couple years the SUns will then have to worry about Amare's and Zarko's contracts which might put them in a salary pickle again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">With Lampe that leaves White, Voskuhl, Amare, Harvey, and Lampe as the go to guys in the frontcourt. I don't think that's enough PT for everyone, so who will be the odd-man out?</div>I forgot to mention this as well... what I wanted to say was the Suns are now too stocked in the front court, with Cabarkapa, Googs, Harvey, Marion, McDyess, Stoudamire, Lampe, Voskul, White, and Williams. Of course some are going on the IR, but this will add to the PT problem D'Antoni has been having... and now they have a thin backcourt, unless they really think they can give Eisley a lot of PT. Ward is being cut as soon as the trade is official (saves even more money, then the Knicks may pick him back up) so really that leaves Barbosa, Jacobson, JJ, and Eisley -- not only does that backcourt look horrible on paper, it's not very deep!! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns are already excited about Vujanic, but if Barbosa can play the way he is playing tonight, I don't think the Suns will have too many problems at PG.</div>The Suns aren't the only ones high on this guy... I've been hearing how the Knicks have this awesome point guard playing over seas since he was drafted... guess the Suns now have an awesome PG not playing for them but if and when he comes over, he's more than welcomed to join the backcourt, it's thin if he's as good as I hear, then he should do nicely. Besides he might be good trade bait. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting sunsfan1357:</div><div class="quote_post">Have the conditions of the pick that was traded been announced? Questions is, where are the Suns going to use two lottery picks at? If Vujanic is the man at PG, Marion at SF, Amare at PF, Lampe at C that leaves SG.</div>The 2004 pick is unconditional as far as I know, the Suns get the pick no matter what. Not sure about the other 1st round pick... it's probably not next year's pick (I think NBA rules state you can't trade back-to-back draft picks). If the Suns are going after Kobe then the SG pick would be useless, Kobe, JJ, and a rookie? The draft picks are probably gonna be traded like they usually do... I really hope they know what they are doing, cause I sure don't
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The trade represents a major shakeup for both teams. In exchange for its best player, Phoenix will go under the salary cap next summer and will have at least $8 million to offer to a free agent class that includes Kobe Bryant.</div> So, I am not sure how you guys keep on getting that they will have 20 mil or more. Source
I never said they will have $20 million. They will have freed up around $26 million, but they won't have $20 million available (or atleast I don't think).
The rebuilding for the Suns seems to start yet again. This has to be frustrating for Shawn Marion, who will be their go-to guy for several seasons but won't see the playoffs probably for that same stretch. With Stoudemire, Cabarkapa, Barbosa, Lampe, and their upcoming picks, the Suns will be well stocked in several seasons, but for now they should be seen as a lottery bound team. I wouldn't be surprised if the Suns finished last in the Western Conference after this. ...which means that I also wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with one of the top three picks in the draft this year.
