Politics Supreme Court rules West Virginia transgender athletes can compete on female sports teams

How would you measure the lack of male puberty? Paperwork? Hormone levels?
"Science and facts" is Ben Shapiro talk, but I understand the appeal to expertise.

I personally think paperwork should be enough: proof of puberty blockers starting before age 14. Proof of current prescription for blockers and/or estrogen HRT at the beginning of each season. When you start checking levels you're going to start reckoning with cis women who have higher testosterone levels being banned because of a quirk of genetics. I do not want that to happen, and I really dislike the olympic committee's rulings to that effect.

Also, as an aside, I think sports should be co-ed bracketed by age before 7th grade.

The trick is getting HRT/blockers into the hands of the kids in time. You know how there's always a bill up for vote in Oregon about putting in a Sales Tax with the promise that they'll definitely get rid of income tax or property tax to compensate? And it always gets voted down because everyone knows that they won't lower income or property taxes. That's how I feel about that rule about trans people who didn't have a male puberty. Like, it sounds totally reasonable right? But until we get accessible and accepted childhood hormone therapy, that rule would just be a ban.

I would be all for it, though, if we got the gender therapy we need.

There will be follow-on issues like how a lot of teens who get the HRT they need in time will be more likely to be stealth than current trans women are. In this way, matters of privacy (HIPAA or otherwise) need to be considered. And of course there will be the protests and walk-outs and angry carrying on... but it's better than "no blanket bans but every school is individually allowed to ban trans athletes"

 

Excellent points, and all very valid concerns. I'm good with paperwork as proof. That would mean a doctor was on board and verified everything.

That's all I've really ever suggested.

What age and when, I'll trust your judgement. 14 seems late to me, but I hit puberty at like 9.

 

Thank you for merging with a different thread. That previous title was just a head scratcher, confusing, and offensive. Look at the person who started it though, what should we expect.

There is another lawsuit in California involving the DGPT and Natalie Ryan, a trans woman professional disc golfer, that is worth looking at.

Transgender disc golf athlete sues after being told she cannot compete in California event

Idk if the rule allowing trans women to compete as long as they transitioned before the age of 12 is a good one. Does that go too far? Not far enough? Idk. This is a complex (or maybe it isn't) issue with seemingly slippery slope arguments on both sides.

 

It's getting harder and harder to transition early. So as @Everything Beagle said, trans people are getting punished twice.

I have yet to see actual evidence that cis girls and women are harmed by the presence of trans girls and women.

 

The solution to me seems to be universal healthcare and making sure medical decisions are made between patients and doctors.

 

(I suggested 14 but it doesn’t matter much) I mean, it’s not my favorite solution to be sure but it’s the one I feel like might actually get a little traction. But unless there’s socioplitical acceptance of the medical needs, it’s a non-starter.

 

14 would be my cutoff to get on blockers to participate in sports; I think back to my time, and I was 5’6” at 12 and 6’0” at 15. If I’d started blockers on my 14th birthday, I’d have been 5’9”, which is what my sister ended up being. I would have really liked playing girls’ basketball in HS, and at 5’9” I’d have been an undersized PF (our girls’ team had a center who was 6’2”).

 

I don’t have enough info to know either, but is a once male 18 year old (I’m using your term, because I don’t know what else to use) trans girl, lose their strength, power and speed simply by transitioning? Like it just goes away? Honest question. On the flip side, does a 18 year old trans boy acquire strength, power and speed? I don’t see many trans boys all of a sudden playing football or basketball. Please educate me on this…..
@crandc the only reason I even posted in this thread is because in my opinion, I don’t want my daughter getting injured. I’ve seen what can happen in co-ed leagues.

 

Yes. There are studies (not many because there’s no money in studying trans women) that show after one year on Estradiol (the estrogen pill I take as part of my hormone replacement therapy), trans muscle mass and overall strength falls to the level of a comparably sized woman.

I want to offer up an example of sports with trans people working out well: the roller derby league here in Portland (the Rose City Rollers) allows trans women and non-binary people to play on their teams. One of my friends is a jammer on one of the teams, so I’ve been watching a lot over the last few seasons. In a high contact sport like derby, trans people have no advantage. One of the top 4 jammers is trans (most of the trans players are jammers because trans women stereotypically are pretty lanky), but the other three are cis. The injuries are a little one sided, though it’s trans people getting injured more often since the cis blockers have football player muscle mass on them.

Trans women are not going to injure your daughter, John. Please trust me on this. This is probably because no D1 team will have even one trans woman except possibly as a bench warmer walk-on. But also it’s because estrogen works really well at turning you into a girl.

 

Thanks for taking the time and having patience with me. I have NO experience with this and my only take can be on what’s best for my daughter out there. I’m curious about the other side though as well. Do you have any knowledge of a trans boy or man going out and killing it in the field of competitive sports? Just wondering if the process is opposite with them?

 

Yeah there was that wrestler who started on testosterone in HS and got on a college men's team. His story has been passed around a lot; Texas forced him to wrestle women because he was a "biological female" and it was a total shambles. There's also been a few trans men who have won bodybuilding competitions (though not since like the 70s).

Here's the thing: we haven't had many opportunities; this is still the age when legends are made for us. We don't have enough athletes to make a Top 100 Trans Athletes list, let alone a Top 100 basketball or Top 100 soccer. Our era is now, and the future... if we're allowed.

 

I think @Everything Beagle answered @THE HCP questions. I really have nothing to add.

 

Thank you both.

 

Hey, for real, thank you. This stuff is intimidating at first, but keeping an open mind about it is really appreciated.