<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cubuffsman78)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>My biggest problem with the list is Deion Sanders....how was he revolutionary? Is the league filled with fleet cover men that have no interest in contact?</div> Deion was revolutionary. Say what you will about him not tackling. No one in the history of the game covered receivers like he did. Champ Bailey and DeAngelo Hall are not on his level. He singlehandedly cut off half of the field for offenses to work in the passing game. Name a corner that covered better than Deion? There wasn't one. Ask the best CBs in the game who they try to base their skills around and they'll tell you Deion. I know Hall will...he's spoken before about Deion being his idol.</div> Madison & Surtain in their day were pretty good as is McAlister w/ Balitmore and those 3 are more well rounded. Prime time could cover but he had a very little, if any skills or desire, in run support. Deion will always be remembered in my mind for being a mercenary.</div> Who cares if he was a mercenary! That doesn't make him any worse. Surtain and Madison were not on the level of Deion. They didn't shut down a side of the field. The only other CB I can remember getting close to having the ability to shutting down a side of the field is Rod Woodson before he moved to safety. Champ Bailey is as close as we get to Deion today. You're right he wasn't a good tackler, but look at the influene he had on teams he played for. The 49ers defense was playing sub-par in 1994. Deion joined the team after a few weeks into the season cause he was playing baseball and all of a sudden the play of the defense took a turn for the better. He influenced better play out of the entire defensive unit. I remember clearly seeing they were a different team after Deion joined.
I'd like to see Leroy Butler get some mention...Deon is questionable but he definately was a playmaker so he is revolutionary.
[quote name='blackadder'][quote name='cubuffsman78'][quote name='MKIV_Supra'] Define what makes him a better player than Lewis. What has he done that Ray hasn't?[/quote] Personally I'd take Mike Singletary over both of them and he should be on that list. The 46 defense was revolutionary and that Bears team was the best defense in the history of the NFL in my opinion. Singletary was the key cog that made it work. He is the best MLB in the history of the game.[/quote] I would too. [quote name='BF1']Also, Brian urlacher has TD catch. Just one more facet he brings than ray[/quote] Mike Vrabel has 2. Does that make him the better LB? Seriously, Ray has been known to knife his way through opposing offenses & allegedly people who disrupt his entourage.[/quote] About the Ray comment, half of me is thinking that you are making some sort of joke about the post Super Bowl incident involving Ray.
[quote name='MKIV_Supra'][quote name='blackadder'][quote name='cubuffsman78'] Personally I'd take Mike Singletary over both of them and he should be on that list. The 46 defense was revolutionary and that Bears team was the best defense in the history of the NFL in my opinion. Singletary was the key cog that made it work. He is the best MLB in the history of the game.[/quote] I would too. [quote name='BF1']Also, Brian urlacher has TD catch. Just one more facet he brings than ray[/quote] Mike Vrabel has 2. Does that make him the better LB? Seriously, Ray has been known to knife his way through opposing offenses & allegedly people who disrupt his entourage.[/quote] About the Ray comment, half of me is thinking that you are making some sort of joke about the post Super Bowl incident involving Ray.[/quote] Call OJ, maybe he can explan how ray would have killed that guy, "if" he did it
[quote name='BearsFan1'][quote name='MKIV_Supra'][quote name='blackadder'][quote name='cubuffsman78']Personally I'd take Mike Singletary over both of them and he should be on that list. The 46 defense was revolutionary and that Bears team was the best defense in the history of the NFL in my opinion. Singletary was the key cog that made it work. He is the best MLB in the history of the game.[/quote] I would too. Mike Vrabel has 2. Does that make him the better LB? Seriously, Ray has been known to knife his way through opposing offenses & allegedly people who disrupt his entourage.[/quote] About the Ray comment, half of me is thinking that you are making some sort of joke about the post Super Bowl incident involving Ray.[/quote] Call OJ, maybe he can explan how ray would have killed that guy, "if" he did it[/quote] He did it for the money? I doubt it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MKIV_Supra)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MKIV_Supra)</div><div class='quotemain'> About the Ray comment, half of me is thinking that you are making some sort of joke about the post Super Bowl incident involving Ray.</div> Call OJ, maybe he can explan how ray would have killed that guy, "if" he did it</div> He did it for the money? I doubt it.</div> Look up, you might get it
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MKIV_Supra)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'> Call OJ, maybe he can explan how ray would have killed that guy, "if" he did it</div> He did it for the money? I doubt it.</div> Look up, you might get it</div> Yeah I know. He had a book that would talk about if he did commit the murder, it would have explained what he would have done. It was going to be on television before it was cancelled and later he said he wanted to do the book and television thing because he wanted the money.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MKIV_Supra)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>Seriously, Ray has been known to knife his way through opposing offenses & allegedly people who disrupt his entourage.</div> About the Ray comment, half of me is thinking that you are making some sort of joke about the post Super Bowl incident involving Ray.</div> What me joke? Nah!! Is your other half still taking a post thanksgiving dinner nap?
I think I'm going to write a book about which bones on Joe Theisman that I would have broken had I been LT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>I think I'm going to write a book about which bones on Joe Theisman that I would have broken had I been LT.</div> I wish he would've ripped out his tongue...then we wouldn't have to hear him on Monday nights...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MKIV_Supra)</div><div class='quotemain'>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi.../content.1.html I am insulted. How could they not put Ray Lewis up there but put Brian Urlacher?</div> Once again they completly ignore the first 40 years of the NFL.</div> People care enough about the first 40 years of the NFL enough to dress like them on throwback day. That is about it. The NFL, back then, didn't even have players of any other race than caucasian. When did others get to participate? I think the 60's. I completely understand when people make distinctions between "Modern Era" football, and before. The league change dramatically when owners decided that winning was more important than their racial preferences. Now, having included *all* people in my post, I will now say that Ray Lewis as a defensive middle linebacker, would DESTROY anyone from any era of football. He's bigger, faster, and probably hits harder than anyone at his position. If he were playing in the first 40 years of football, he would destroy everyone in that era, simply on his mass and speed alone. I don't care how tough you think those guys were. He is just as tough, and he's bigger and faster. Ray Lewis wins, hands down. I laugh and mock you when you say that anyone from the first 40 years (who where proven to be smaller and slower) were better than anyone today.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP-33)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'd like to see Leroy Butler get some mention...Deon is questionable but he definately was a playmaker so he is revolutionary.</div> Leroy revolutionized the game at least in GB by being the creater of the Lambeau leap. Obviously if you're combining skill and a guy who revolutionized the game the first name I think of is Reggie White. Not just for being the greatest DE ever to play but for what he did as far as leading the players to free agency era and for Green Bay by making it a place for players of colour to come. As far as the Ray VS. Brian debate it's so hard to pick cause of all the variables in a team game. Ray is an excellent motor and leader but how much of his success was created by the line in front of him. We saw after the line didn't dominate Ray wasn't nearly the same player cause he thrives on them taking up blockers so he can shoot through the holes. Right now though I'd have to go with Ray but only cause we've basically seen his whole career. I think Urlachers still getting better and now on a better team with time could definately finish as the better of the 2. Guess we'll wait and see
Leroy Butler is actually probably the best blitzing Safety maybe to ever play. Fritz Schumur really created the blueprint that involved Leroy Butler almost like another LB. Now a lot of teams use their SS like the Pack did Butler back then. Butler was really the 1st of the Roy Williams and Troy Polamalu.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CanadianFavreFan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP-33)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'd like to see Leroy Butler get some mention...Deon is questionable but he definately was a playmaker so he is revolutionary.</div> Leroy revolutionized the game at least in GB by being the creater of the Lambeau leap. Obviously if you're combining skill and a guy who revolutionized the game the first name I think of is Reggie White. Not just for being the greatest DE ever to play but for what he did as far as leading the players to free agency era and for Green Bay by making it a place for players of colour to come. As far as the Ray VS. Brian debate it's so hard to pick cause of all the variables in a team game. Ray is an excellent motor and leader but how much of his success was created by the line in front of him. We saw after the line didn't dominate Ray wasn't nearly the same player cause he thrives on them taking up blockers so he can shoot through the holes. Right now though I'd have to go with Ray but only cause we've basically seen his whole career. I think Urlachers still getting better and now on a better team with time could definately finish as the better of the 2. Guess we'll wait and see</div> There shouldn't even be a Ray vs. Brian debate on this topic. Neither were revolutionary defensive players. What has Urlacher done that's so revolutionary? What did Ray do that was revolutionary? When I think about revolutionary, I think about players who changed the game of football. That's why Butkus gets mention. That's why Mike Singletary should get mention over both of those players because of the 46 defense that changed how offenses played for a while. Ronnie Lott was a revolutionary player. LT is obviously the most revolutionary player of all time and I would personally put Deacon Jones right after LT. A name that's not on that list that I think should be is Reggie White.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>Reggie White is #6 actually on there.</div> Ahh my bad...I skimmed it a week ago and hadn't looked at it again. I just didn't remember him being on there.
Where is Julius Peppers?? He has now created what great DEs should be, 280 pounds with 4.4 speed, he could play any position on the field. DEs that resemble him rise their draft stock, and that is why Mario Williams got picked first.
Didn't Jevon Kearse do that? I will admit Peppers is a becoming something the position hasn't seen before
[quote name='The Return of the Raider'][quote name='Zackman'][quote name='MKIV_Supra']http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0611/gallery.nfl.defenserevolutionaries/content.1.html I am insulted. How could they not put Ray Lewis up there but put Brian Urlacher?[/quote] Once again they completly ignore the first 40 years of the NFL.[/quote] People care enough about the first 40 years of the NFL enough to dress like them on throwback day. That is about it. The NFL, back then, didn't even have players of any other race than caucasian. When did others get to participate? I think the 60's. I completely understand when people make distinctions between "Modern Era" football, and before. The league change dramatically when owners decided that winning was more important than their racial preferences.[/quote] The NFL did exclude blacks from 1934-1946. The "Modern Era" in the NFL is Post WW II. There are many black HOF players that starred in the Modern Era in the 1950's. George Blanda is a good example of a player who played in the early Modern Era in 1949 and then earned the NFL MVP award playing for your Raiders in 1970 at the age of 43! He's proof a player from the 40's could play at the highest level in the AFC era. There were lots of players from the 1950's (black and white) way better than George Blanda. [quote name='The Return of the Raider']Now, having included *all* people in my post, I will now say that Ray Lewis as a defensive middle linebacker, would DESTROY anyone from any era of football. He's bigger, faster, and probably hits harder than anyone at his position. If he were playing in the first 40 years of football, he would destroy everyone in that era, simply on his mass and speed alone. I don't care how tough you think those guys were. He is just as tough, and he's bigger and faster. Ray Lewis wins, hands down. I laugh and mock you when you say that anyone from the first 40 years (who where proven to be smaller and slower) were better than anyone today.[/quote] This thread isn't even about which players were better! <u>Read the freakin title</u>! It's about players who were <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">Revolutionary!</span> Stay on topic chum.
