<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8990/eddycurrycontractrv2.png"> There Those numbers make me sick. Im glad its not Bulls money
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8990/eddycurrycontractrv2.png"> There That's what I was going on about earlier.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post"> I would probably choose Tyrus Thomas over Eddy Curry, mainly because of the difference in age and the contracts. You're right, Curry is one of the few centers who can average 20 ppg playing in the paint. The only problem is he's giving just as much, if not more, on the other end of the floor. And on top of that, he's still a terrible rebounder and turns the ball over to much. Now there's no doubt he's a better player than Tyrus is right now. But, if I was an NBA GM, I couldn't justify giving him over $8 mill a year (and its increasing a lot).</div> Curry’s contract isn’t bad. You just said he’s one of few centers who can average 20 PPG in the paint. Considering the dearth of quality centers in this era of basketball, Curry could be making a lot more money. For a 20 PPG big man, $8 million a year with a $0.8 million yearly increase isn’t too bad at all, especially considering he’s only 24 and will only get better. Defensively he is bad, no questions about it, but Curry doesn’t allow more points than he gives up. He himself scores about 20 PPG, but you also have to take into consideration that his presence creates open shots for his teammates. Curry gets quite a few “hockey assists” and the fact that he often gets doubled before he touches the ball gives everyone open looks. His offense definitely outweighs his defense. I think people overexaggerate his rebounding. The Knicks are one of the best rebounding teams in the league—they’re fifth in RPG, second in rebounding differential, and fourth in rebounds allowed. It’s not just because of David Lee either—he only played 56 games this season and Quentin Richardson, the Knicks second leading rebounder, only played 49 games. Curry has turned the ball over frequently, but some of it is due to poor entry passes by the Knicks guards. Sometimes they give it to Curry with 3 seconds on the clock and don’t let him know while his back is towards the basket. Also he’s starting to adjust to the double and triple teams which have been coming now that he’s on every team’s “radar”. The double teams were especially quick after the flurry of injuries. Curry then became the #1 focal point of every defense since he was usually the only scorer on the floor. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M Two One:</div><div class="quote_post">Simply, the Bulls have definitely got the upper hand in that trade. Tyrus has much more potential for one. Second, the Knicks are still suffering from the trade despite Curry's play for the organization with or without the injuries. I'm very happy we don't have Eddy Curry anymore because he would have demanded a large contract in the future, which can go to more talented players that we already have.</div> How do they definitely have the upper hand in this deal? Tyrus Thomas has shown signs but far too inconsistently to already claim the Bulls as the victor in this deal. And how does Tyrus have much more potential? Curry is already one of the best at his position. Tyrus has a long way to go. The Knicks’ suffering is mostly due to injuries. The only players who played over 70 games were Curry, Frye, and Marbury (but he only played 2 games in April). The Knicks could have very well made the playoffs this season. Crawford only played 58 games, Lee played 56, Francis played 44, Richardson played 49, and Robinson played 64. (Note: I didn’t count Crawford’s 30 second game or Lee’s two games when he was testing his leg strength). But you get my drift. The Knicks were eliminated from contention in the final week of the season despite most of their key players out. Had the Knicks been more healthy, they could have easily been in the playoffs. The trade had nothing to do with their struggles this season. Eddy will demand a large contract, but so will every one of Chicago’s young players. Either way the Bulls might be capped out in the next year or so. It’s also not a coincidence that the Bulls’ glaring weakness is the lack of a post presence. Had Curry, a 20-point post scorer, still played for Chicago, they would probably be favorites to at least make the Finals. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you write that the Knicks got the better end of the deal when we ripped them of their youth for a few years? Then you write that he's a slightly better version of Swift. Why are you comparing them now when Curry has had more experience in this league? That doesn't even make any sense from a professional stand point. Thomas has made more of an impact in his first year then Curry could've hoped for. Do you even watch any of the Bulls games? Ben and Curry wouldn't happen either. Do you have any idea how much money Curry is going to cost down the road? We wouldn't have the ability to re-sign Deng, Gordon and Nocioni who are all more valuable to this organization. People often avoid the money situation. The Bulls made a great decision ridding of Curry and Chandler as a matter of fact. Two high rollers that aren't worth their price. Both players are better off where they are now and the Bulls are better off without them. That is the point of a trade.</div> Ripped our youth for a few years? We’re pretty set when it comes to youth. Last year the Bulls had our lottery pick, but we also had two late first rounders: Mardy Collins and Renaldo Balkman, who are more valuable than Tyrus Thomas would be. We also have a late pick but in a deep draft. The Knicks’ youth core is very solid. Curry has much more to work with than Tyrus Thomas. He’s already amongst the top in free throw attempts and points in the paint. Tyrus Thomas played college ball for a year. Eddy Curry was a year younger and came straight out of high school. He was also in a very different situation. It’s also difficult for a player of his mold to adjust to the NBA, especially from high school. Gordon, Deng, and Nocioni don’t really provide the Bulls with anything they don’t have. Curry would have been a nice asset since he gives them an inside presence. If not Gordon or Deng, Curry is at least more valuable than Nocioni. Still, even if you think the Bulls faired well in the trade (which I agree with) I don’t think they clearly have the upperhand in the deal. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> The Bulls won the Eddy Curry trade for a number of reasons. First and for most, they where able to get rid of Eddy Curry who was going to demand an excess of 60 million dollars on the free agent market, while receiving two unprotected picks, both of which turned out to be lottery picks. So they not only saved money, but also are now in position to potential draft one of the many touted big men in this years draft. Including the two big prizes at the end of the rain bow Greg Oden and Kevin Durant.</div> Eddy Curry is making 50, not 60 million. $50 million for a center who scores 20 PPG in the paint at age 24 is a solid contract. Realistically speaking, it’s very unlikely their 1.7% chance of winning the lottery becomes a reality, so you might want to forget the Durant Oden pipedreams. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Meanwhile, since the Eddy Curry deal the Knicks have not made the playoffs either year. Curry has continued to be a liability to his team on the defensive end of the court. Meanwhile, with the first of the two lottery picks the Bulls selected Tyrus Thomas. Despite not putting up impressive numbers his rookie season, mostly due to lack of playing time, Tyrus has already proven to be a better defensive player than Eddy Curry, and has shown flashes of the potential that he has to become a future star in the league. At a mere 20 years old Tyrus earned his spot in the Scott Skiles rotation during the second part of his rookie season, and has become a fan favorite for his incredible athletic plays, and presence defensively. So who really won the trade?</div> I don’t feel like getting into the whole thing last season, but I’ll be brief: basically, Curry came into camp out of shape with the whole heart thing and struggled in the 42 different starting lineups, badmouthing from the coach, etc. The second season we should have really made the playoffs, but injuries killed our chances, which were still alive in late April. Curry is a liability on defense, but makes up for it with his offense. His bad defense is also something which can be worked on whereas Tyrus Thomas will have a harder time developing on the offensive end. You see, Tyrus Thomas, who averaged 5.2 points, 3.7 rebounds, is showing inconsistent flashes of being a star, while Eddy Curry can already be consider a low-tier star. Since you don’t know how well Thomas will develop, when you get rid of all the speculation, the Knicks have the upperhand in this deal as of now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you compare their rookie seasons, Tyrus is actually having a better season in less minutes per game. Here are his numbers compared to Curry their rookie year. Eddy Curry Tyrus Thomas </div> That’s pretty convenient for you if you look at the stats like that. Did you consider that Curry came straight out of high school and had absolutely no mentor? Curry also played under a different coach. You just can’t look at “who had the better rookie season” because every situation is different. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post"> This is just my opinion, but I would never give up 2 lottery picks for Eddy Curry.</div> Please back up your opinion.
It all depends on who the Bulls get in the draft this year. If they end up getting Joakim Noah(projected around 9th) who the Bulls wanted last year then I would say the Knicks actually win this trade. Thomas is an athletic freak, but he has never really impressed me that much. He'll show flashes, but he will never be a franchise player. I see Thomas and Noah both being solid role players, nothing more, nothing less and I would definitely say Eddy Curry is worth that. I still don't think this trade winner will be determined until 3-4 years down the road when these players start to reach the beginning of their primes.
Did you sit their all day typing that up? Haha I know I saw you looking at this thread for a while, but dang. I will reply to my part and let the others address theres because I really don't have that much time on my hands right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Eddy Curry is making 50, not 60 million. $50 million for a center who scores 20 PPG in the paint at age 24 is a solid contract. Realistically speaking, it’s very unlikely their 1.7% chance of winning the lottery becomes a reality, so you might want to forget the Durant Oden pipedreams.</div> Oden and Durant are unlikely, but are still a possibility. Its a 1.9% chance that we get the number one overall pick, and a bit higher for the number two I would guess. However, regardless of where we land we still improve our team dramatically due to the depth in this draft with names like Brandon Wright, Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Yi Jinalain, etc. we will receive an instant upgrade, without having to pay anyone 50 million dollars. Paying a center, who plays no defense, 50 million dollars might not be a bad thing for the Knicks, but personally I would rather save that money and resign Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, and Andres Nocioni. Then give Curry that much money and be in the position the Knicks are right now, losing two straight lottery picks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don’t feel like getting into the whole thing last season, but I’ll be brief: basically, Curry came into camp out of shape with the whole heart thing and struggled in the 42 different starting lineups, badmouthing from the coach, etc. The second season we should have really made the playoffs, but injuries killed our chances, which were still alive in late April. Curry is a liability on defense, but makes up for it with his offense. His bad defense is also something which can be worked on whereas Tyrus Thomas will have a harder time developing on the offensive end. You see, Tyrus Thomas, who averaged 5.2 points, 3.7 rebounds, is showing inconsistent flashes of being a star, while Eddy Curry can already be consider a low-tier star. Since you don’t know how well Thomas will develop, when you get rid of all the speculation, the Knicks have the upperhand in this deal as of now.</div> Whatever excuse you might have for not making the playoffs the fact remains that you still have not even gone to the playoffs with Eddy Curry earning an excess of 8 million dollars a year, so like you said in your post its "speculation". I actually believe its easier to help a person learn the game offensively then it is to teach someone defense. Curry has been in the league five years now? Yet he still is a below average rebounder for his size, and is a complete slug on the defensive end. I would rather go to battle against an elite team like the Spurs, Pistons, and Heat with Ben Wallace in the middle over Curry any day. What's the point of scoring points on one end, if your just going to give them right back? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That’s pretty convenient for you if you look at the stats like that. Did you consider that Curry came straight out of high school and had absolutely no mentor? Curry also played under a different coach. You just can’t look at “who had the better rookie season” because every situation is different.</div> Tyrus Thomas spent one year in college, and came into the league at age 19. Wonder how much he learned in college during that semester. You act like Tyrus actually came into the league knowing every fundamental of the game because of the time he spent in college. The Bulls brought in several veteran big men to tutor Curry upon drafting him, some names that come to mind are Corie Blount, Jerome Williams, and Antonio Davis. So he did have a "mentor" to look towards. Right now it sounds like your making excuses for Curry and the trade more than anything. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsownNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">It all depends on who the Bulls get in the draft this year. If they end up getting Joakim Noah(projected around 9th) who the Bulls wanted last year then I would say the Knicks actually win this trade. Thomas is an athletic freak, but he has never really impressed me that much. He'll show flashes, but he will never be a franchise player. I see Thomas and Noah both being solid role players, nothing more, nothing less and I would definitely say Eddy Curry is worth that. I still don't think this trade winner will be determined until 3-4 years down the road when these players start to reach the beginning of their primes.</div> Hypothetically speaking Gators if the Bulls win the NBA title within the next few years will they have won the trade? Because the trade is basically what put the pieces in place to build this roster we have now. If we had paid Curry all that money, it would likely mean we would never have signed Wallace, nor have enough money to resign our other young guys.
<div class="quote_poster">Blur Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did you sit their all day typing that up? Haha I know I saw you looking at this thread for a while, but dang. I will reply to my part and let the others address theres because I really don't have that much time on my hands right now. Oden and Durant are unlikely, but are still a possibility. Its a 1.9% chance that we get the number one overall pick, and a bit higher for the number two I would guess. However, regardless of where we land we still improve our team dramatically due to the depth in this draft with names like Brandon Wright, Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Yi Jinalain, etc. we will receive an instant upgrade, without having to pay anyone 50 million dollars. Paying a center, who plays no defense, 50 million dollars might not be a bad thing for the Knicks, but personally I would rather save that money and resign Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, and Andres Nocioni. Then give Curry that much money and be in the position the Knicks are right now, losing two straight lottery picks. Whatever excuse you might have for not making the playoffs the fact remains that you still have not even gone to the playoffs with Eddy Curry earning an excess of 8 million dollars a year, so like you said in your post its "speculation". I actually believe its easier to help a person learn the game offensively then it is to teach someone defense. Curry has been in the league five years now? Yet he still is a below average rebounder for his size, and is a complete slug on the defensive end. I would rather go to battle against an elite team like the Spurs, Pistons, and Heat with Ben Wallace in the middle over Curry any day. What's the point of scoring points on one end, if your just going to give them right back? Tyrus Thomas spent one year in college, and came into the league at age 19. Wonder how much he learned in college during that semester. You act like Tyrus actually came into the league knowing every fundamental of the game because of the time he spent in college. The Bulls brought in several veteran big men to tutor Curry upon drafting him, some names that come to mind are Corie Blount, Jerome Williams, and Antonio Davis. So he did have a "mentor" to look towards. Right now it sounds like your making excuses for Curry and the trade more than anything.</div> I'm pretty sure he actually was in college 2 years. It's just one year he got redshirted.
Haha! Well, you've been working on this for a few hours I see. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How do they definitely have the upper hand in this deal? Tyrus Thomas has shown signs but far too inconsistently to already claim the Bulls as the victor in this deal. And how does Tyrus have much more potential? Curry is already one of the best at his position. Tyrus has a long way to go. The Knicks’ suffering is mostly due to injuries. The only players who played over 70 games were Curry, Frye, and Marbury (but he only played 2 games in April). The Knicks could have very well made the playoffs this season. Crawford only played 58 games, Lee played 56, Francis played 44, Richardson played 49, and Robinson played 64. (Note: I didn’t count Crawford’s 30 second game or Lee’s two games when he was testing his leg strength). But you get my drift. The Knicks were eliminated from contention in the final week of the season despite most of their key players out. Had the Knicks been more healthy, they could have easily been in the playoffs. The trade had nothing to do with their struggles this season. Eddy will demand a large contract, but so will every one of Chicago’s young players. Either way the Bulls might be capped out in the next year or so. It’s also not a coincidence that the Bulls’ glaring weakness is the lack of a post presence. Had Curry, a 20-point post scorer, still played for Chicago, they would probably be favorites to at least make the Finals.</div> The injuries portion doesn't even make sense in your argument there because I already mentioned that. I see you too also miss certain points to responses. Even without the injuries though, your team would've only contended for the final two spots in the Playoffs. Which is good and I am not insulting that especially considering that the team has been in the dirt the last few seasons as the Bulls were for five years. That just happens. Now, go back and re-read my other responses because I don't like to re-write the same crap in detail over and over. Look for where I pointed out that we have ripped up your youth for a few years. Also, comparing a player [Curry] who never reached the height of his potential and has nearly peaked to a player [Thomas] that is a rookie in the league who has a lot of potential still and is absolutely nowhere near his peak is rediculous and has no ground for argument. You can write that Curry is currently better all you want and I won't disagree, but that's just useless anyway comparing a player with years of experience to a rookie. We all know since the beginning of the year that you're just a Tyrus Thomas hater anyway. I didn't care much for him either if you remember, but he's proven that he has improved his overall game. He isn't so sloppy anymore and works hard for his minutes. Also, Curry wanted more money then what our guys do and I'd much rather have the players we have now. Deng is one of the most coveted players in the NBA today because of so many factors. Then we have Gordon and Nocioni as well. No need to explain Gordon. Noce being extremely versatile; before he came into this league he wasn't much of a three point shooter and Skiles wanted him to make that a part of his game and he did. Now he's one of the better three point shooters and a tough bastard to boot. We will all have our own opinions of who got the better deal and that's cool. More power to you, really. But, I'm going to side with our guys and the media.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Curry’s contract isn’t bad. You just said he’s one of few centers who can average 20 PPG in the paint. Considering the dearth of quality centers in this era of basketball, Curry could be making a lot more money. For a 20 PPG big man, $8 million a year with a $0.8 million yearly increase isn’t too bad at all, especially considering he’s only 24 and will only get better. Defensively he is bad, no questions about it, but Curry doesn’t allow more points than he gives up. He himself scores about 20 PPG, but you also have to take into consideration that his presence creates open shots for his teammates. Curry gets quite a few “hockey assists” and the fact that he often gets doubled before he touches the ball gives everyone open looks. His offense definitely outweighs his defense. I think people overexaggerate his rebounding. The Knicks are one of the best rebounding teams in the league—they’re fifth in RPG, second in rebounding differential, and fourth in rebounds allowed. It’s not just because of David Lee either—he only played 56 games this season and Quentin Richardson, the Knicks second leading rebounder, only played 49 games. Curry has turned the ball over frequently, but some of it is due to poor entry passes by the Knicks guards. Sometimes they give it to Curry with 3 seconds on the clock and don’t let him know while his back is towards the basket. Also he’s starting to adjust to the double and triple teams which have been coming now that he’s on every team’s “radar”. The double teams were especially quick after the flurry of injuries. Curry then became the #1 focal point of every defense since he was usually the only scorer on the floor.</div> I really think the value of the traditional back-to-the-basket center has become overrated. Out of the contending teams, I only see Miami and San Antonio as being built around that type of player. In the past, they were absolutely essential for teams, but that's not the case anymore, IMO. Especially in the Eastern Conference, where the trend seems to be moving towards being long, athletic, playing a faster pace and spreading the floor. Curry's certainly a rare commodity, but I don't think that just because he's difficult to find we can inflate his value a lot. The main reason I consider him overpaid is because he really only impacts the game on one end of the floor. His defense truly is terrible and while I don't have the stats to back it up, his ineffectiveness is one of the main reasons the Knicks D is so awful. Not only does he give up points to the player he's guarding, but his help defense is slow and penetrating guards will very rarely find resistance. I mean, there's a reason a columnist came up with the term "Eddy Curry line" for a player who's turnovers per game are greater than their combined assists, blocks, and steals. That's in a fantasy context, but it really points out his impact on the floor. As for his turnovers, you can point to the poor entry passes from his guards, but I'm only buying that to a certain extent. He had a turnover problem before New York and its only compounded since he's arrived. While his rebounding is improved, I put more of that on the number of shots that the Knicks put up and his increased minutes. He's still lazy on the boards and doesn't establish proper position when the shot is missed. Now, there's no denying his ability to score. But, you're not just paying $8 mill for that. Next season it'll be around 9. The year after it'll be about 9.7. And in 3 seasons, when the team will finally be his (Marbury and Francis' contracts finish) and his value will be at its best, you'll be paying him $10.5 million. Unless he really dedicates himself to improving his weaknesses (unlikely, given how he's approached his career so far) that's just too much, in my opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blur:</div><div class="quote_post">Oden and Durant are unlikely, but are still a possibility. Its a 1.9% chance that we get the number one overall pick, and a bit higher for the number two I would guess. However, regardless of where we land we still improve our team dramatically due to the depth in this draft with names like Brandon Wright, Roy Hibbert, Al Horford, Yi Jinalain, etc. we will receive an instant upgrade, without having to pay anyone 50 million dollars. Paying a center, who plays no defense, 50 million dollars might not be a bad thing for the Knicks, but personally I would rather save that money and resign Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, and Andres Nocioni. Then give Curry that much money and be in the position the Knicks are right now, losing two straight lottery picks.</div> It is a possibility… just a very unrealistic one. And all of the players you mentioned are projected to go higher than #9. Granted, there usually is some slipping in the draft, but I would it’s pretty safe to say Wright, Horford, and Hibbert will be off the board before the Bulls select ninith. Maybe even Yi Jianlian. Had you kept Curry you wouldn’t be in the same position as the Knicks. They are totally different teams. And if paying Curry $50 million isn’t a bad thing for the Knicks and it worked out for the Bulls, then how do they have the clear-cut advantage? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Whatever excuse you might have for not making the playoffs the fact remains that you still have not even gone to the playoffs with Eddy Curry earning an excess of 8 million dollars a year, so like you said in your post its "speculation". I actually believe its easier to help a person learn the game offensively then it is to teach someone defense. Curry has been in the league five years now? Yet he still is a below average rebounder for his size, and is a complete slug on the defensive end. I would rather go to battle against an elite team like the Spurs, Pistons, and Heat with Ben Wallace in the middle over Curry any day. What's the point of scoring points on one end, if your just going to give them right back?</div> I wanted to stress the fact that the Knicks’ struggles had nothing to do with Eddy Curry. By that logic, I can conclude the Joe Johnson trade was bad for the Hawks since their record has barely improved after signing him to that huge contract, right? And what is “speculation”? Defense mostly entails the following: moving your feet, knowing your opponent, and playing smart. Most of Curry’s defensive deficiencies are mental. He’s slow at reading the opponent’s offense. It takes much less time and effort improving on defense. Gaining an offensive game is much harder. Even if Thomas develops on offense, he will never be as effective on offense as Curry is. Curry is pretty average on the boards. I wouldn’t say he’s bad. Like I said, if you look at it strictly from a numbers standpoint, he hasn’t improved, but the Knicks are one of the best (about top 3) rebounding teams in the league. His low rebounding numbers are due to the Knicks prowess on the board as a team. Frankly, he doesn’t need to average 10 RPG for the Knicks to outrebound their opponents. In fact, the Knicks are second in the league in outrebounding their opponents per game. You said you would rather play Ben Wallace, but he too is no different than Curry in the sense that his game is one-dimensional. What’s the point of preventing points on defense if you’re not going to produce any on offense? Curry is a liability on defense while Wallace is a liability on offense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tyrus Thomas spent one year in college, and came into the league at age 19. Wonder how much he learned in college during that semester. You act like Tyrus actually came into the league knowing every fundamental of the game because of the time he spent in college. The Bulls brought in several veteran big men to tutor Curry upon drafting him, some names that come to mind are Corie Blount, Jerome Williams, and Antonio Davis. So he did have a "mentor" to look towards. Right now it sounds like your making excuses for Curry and the trade more than anything.</div> Actually, he spent two years, as Gators said. And any year of college basketball is very vital to a player. There’s so much you can learn, especially for someone like Tyrus Thomas who played in the Final Four. Had Tyrus went straight to the pros from high school he would have been significantly more raw. Tyrus Thomas really came into the league at age 20 and he’s soon turning 21 in a few months. He definitely had an advantage in the age and experience department. Corie Blount—he averaged 59 games a season and 15 minutes in those games. How was he be a good mentor for Curry? During that time, the Bulls had no veterans and were simply a bad team. And after JYD and Davis came in Eddy’s 3rd year, he had his best years in Chicago. Tyrus Thomas actually came into a good situation and played with Ben Wallace who is perhaps the best mentor for him since they have similar playing styles. It’s hardly an excuse. You simply can’t compare two different rookies on very different teams and say who’s going to be better based on that one season. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting M Two One:</div><div class="quote_post">The injuries portion doesn't even make sense in your argument there because I already mentioned that. I see you too also miss certain points to responses. Even without the injuries though, your team would've only contended for the final two spots in the Playoffs. Which is good and I am not insulting that especially considering that the team has been in the dirt the last few seasons as the Bulls were for five years. That just happens.</div> That doesn’t make sense since the Wizards and the Nets both have identical records, so the Knicks would actually be competing for the final 3 playoff spots. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now, go back and re-read my other responses because I don't like to re-write the same crap in detail over and over. Look for where I pointed out that we have ripped up your youth for a few years. Also, comparing a player [Curry] who never reached the height of his potential and has nearly peaked to a player [Thomas] that is a rookie in the league who has a lot of potential still and is absolutely nowhere near his peak is rediculous and has no ground for argument. You can write that Curry is currently better all you want and I won't disagree, but that's just useless anyway comparing a player with years of experience to a rookie. We all know since the beginning of the year that you're just a Tyrus Thomas hater anyway. I didn't care much for him either if you remember, but he's proven that he has improved his overall game. He isn't so sloppy anymore and works hard for his minutes.</div> Our “ripped youth” was definitely expendable since we’re stacked. Curry has nearly peaked? He’s only 24-years-old and has barely scratched the surface of his potential. What you just said was simply incorrect. Tyrus Thomas definitely has potential, but the height of his potential isn’t higher than Curry’s. I mean, Tyrus Thomas averaged roughly 5/4 in 13 minutes and you already conclude that he will be better than Curry who just finished averaging roughly 20/7. Physically, Curry also has more to work with than Thomas. Your entire argument is based on Thomas eventually being better than Eddy Curry, which is hardly a given. What does it matter if he works hard for his minutes? Most rookies improve their overall game and work hard for their minutes. That’s not really stating much at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, Curry wanted more money then what our guys do and I'd much rather have the players we have now. Deng is one of the most coveted players in the NBA today because of so many factors. Then we have Gordon and Nocioni as well. No need to explain Gordon. Noce being extremely versatile; before he came into this league he wasn't much of a three point shooter and Skiles wanted him to make that a part of his game and he did. Now he's one of the better three point shooters and a tough bastard to boot. We will all have our own opinions of who got the better deal and that's cool. More power to you, really. But, I'm going to side with our guys and the media.</div> But that’s just your preference. Personally, I think the Bulls will be better off with a very good post presence to take their offense to the next level instead of having yet another perimeter player. If the trade faired well for both teams, why is Chicago “definitely” the victor? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I really think the value of the traditional back-to-the-basket center has become overrated. Out of the contending teams, I only see Miami and San Antonio as being built around that type of player. In the past, they were absolutely essential for teams, but that's not the case anymore, IMO. Especially in the Eastern Conference, where the trend seems to be moving towards being long, athletic, playing a faster pace and spreading the floor. Curry's certainly a rare commodity, but I don't think that just because he's difficult to find we can inflate his value a lot.</div> But looking back at the last 8 championships, 7 of them have gone to teams with a real strong post presence. It’s proven that in this day and age, a back-to-the-basket game is still one of the most effective ways to run an offense through and not many teams have a player that is good enough to do that. The fact that Curry is a “rare commodity” already makes him very valuable. I’m not saying he will ever be as good as Shaq or Duncan, but the Knicks have more to work with in Eddy than they would have Thomas and most likely whoever the Bulls choose 9th. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The main reason I consider him overpaid is because he really only impacts the game on one end of the floor. His defense truly is terrible and while I don't have the stats to back it up, his ineffectiveness is one of the main reasons the Knicks D is so awful. Not only does he give up points to the player he's guarding, but his help defense is slow and penetrating guards will very rarely find resistance. I mean, there's a reason a columnist came up with the term "Eddy Curry line" for a player who's turnovers per game are greater than their combined assists, blocks, and steals. That's in a fantasy context, but it really points out his impact on the floor. As for his turnovers, you can point to the poor entry passes from his guards, but I'm only buying that to a certain extent. He had a turnover problem before New York and its only compounded since he's arrived. While his rebounding is improved, I put more of that on the number of shots that the Knicks put up and his increased minutes. He's still lazy on the boards and doesn't establish proper position when the shot is missed.</div> Still, there aren’t many good centers in this league, so a center that puts up even decent numbers is bound to be overpaid. Curry made 8 million a year last season, which is relative to his production on the court this year 20/7. His defense is bad, but he more than makes up for it with his offense. Like I said, he doesn’t log many assists on the stat sheet, but the fact that his teammates score from his presence, is just as good as an assist. He turns the ball over, but it’s more relative to him playing more minutes and having the ball in his hands more. Regardless of his turnovers, it’s undeniable that he’s still extremely effective on offense. Like I said to Blur, the Knicks are one of the best in the league in the rebounding department, so his numbers are inevitably going to be lower than it could be. It should also be noted that he gets back tips to other teammates, which is why the rebounding is pretty evenly distributed throughout our frontcourt. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now, there's no denying his ability to score. But, you're not just paying $8 mill for that. Next season it'll be around 9. The year after it'll be about 9.7. And in 3 seasons, when the team will finally be his (Marbury and Francis' contracts finish) and his value will be at its best, you'll be paying him $10.5 million. Unless he really dedicates himself to improving his weaknesses (unlikely, given how he's approached his career so far) that's just too much, in my opinion.</div> Last season Curry showed that he was dedicated to the game. Last year on offense he just barreled into his defender. This year he establishes great post position, does a much better job staying out of foul trouble, and above all stays poised when things aren’t going his way and he’s frustrated. During the summer, Mark Aguirre and Curry primarily worked on his offensive game and it GREATLY improved from last year. This offseason, Aguirre said defense will be the main focus. I’m not saying he’ll be great on offense, but it’s very possible for him to not be a liability next season.
I'm editing this and deleting it because I'm not bothering to get into this further as it is only going to continue later with no point.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I really think the value of the traditional back-to-the-basket center has become overrated. Out of the contending teams, I only see Miami and San Antonio as being built around that type of player. In the past, they were absolutely essential for teams, but that's not the case anymore, IMO. </div>Teams with Shaq and Tim Duncan have won 7 of the last 8 championships. With Pistons being the exception in 2004 Finals, while Malone was injured. I don't think Curry's contract is terrible, it obviously depends on how hard he plays during the next 5 years. However Jermaine O Neal makes 20 mill, Jamal Magloire makes 8, Rasho makes 8, Ben Wallace makes 15.7 mill, Ratliff makes 12, Damp makes 8, Nene, makes 10, Kmart 12, Camby 8, Kwame Brown makes 8, Foyle makes 8, Sheed makes 12, Murphy makes 8, Kaman will make 12, Chandler makes 9, LaFrentz makes 11.
<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine O Neal makes 20 mill, Jamal Magloire makes 8, Rasho makes 8, Ben Wallace makes 15.7 mill, Ratliff makes 12, Damp makes 8, Nene, makes 10, Kmart 12, Camby 8, Kwame Brown makes 8, Foyle makes 8, Sheed makes 12, Murphy makes 8, Kaman will make 12, Chandler makes 9, LaFrentz makes 11.</div> That would be the point of why we only have Ben Wallace because we needed a strong presence on the defensive end. Nocioni for instance is not tall enough or more notably strong enough to successfully defend large players no matter how tough he is. He was really the only guy last season who would be good enough to defend big and rough guys like Shaq. That isn't going to work out in the long run.
