<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (STAT @ Jan 20 2007, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I read somewhere that Gilbert is 11/11 this year in buzzer beaters....who's clutch now?</div> 11/12 now, he had the ball and kirk hinrich ran up to him to foul him, kirk fouls him, Gil shoots the ball up gets 3 shots at teh buzzer.
I gotta pick Wade, I might be biased but Wade is the better player, he has gotten his team to the playoffs more and has won a ring and winning is what matters. Also Wade is one of the best if not the best slasher inthe league. Wade also has a reliable mid-range jumper and three point shot. Both can pass the ball well, Arenas is easily the better shooter, and Wade is the better slasher. So they are equal but the title gives the edge to Wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Jan 20 2007, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade is a creation of david stern. These new nba ruels + the way he is officiated make him look better. All he can do is drive. And defenders cant' do anything about it. Early on in games, defenders get touch fouls on the perimeter so they soften up their d and let wade drive. Great freelance defender but is a bad man to man defender. He'd be a kevin johnson type of player in the handcheck era. No way near the player he is now.Arenas on the hand is just a flat out stud. Doesn't rely on penetration and calls to score. Jumper, 3 point shot, lay up, anything, he can do it. He is also clutch as hell......Now let's see how many responses I get.</div>LMAO this is the sh*t I was talking about last night with you.You make the handcheck era seem like it was a totally different time and you could fu*king tackel players. If AI was a 30PPG scorer in the handcheck era, then Wade would be right where he is now as well. He hasn't always gotten the calls he does now but has always shot a high % and for the past 3 seasons been at or over 24PPG. He is much better at finishing at the rim than GA, and for that matter anyone else in the league outside of LeBron James. He is a much better man to man defender than you give him credit for, he did a great job on Kobe when he was depended on. Nowhere near a lockdown defender, but still better than GA. Wade is also a much better playmaker and better rebounder.As I said in my 1st post, outside of possibly scoring (where you yourself have said GA is really, really inconsistent) Wade takes just about every category. And give me the guy who has come up way more clutch in big game situations than GA ever has. Yes, GA hasn't had as many oppertunities as Wade, but LeBron totally bitched him out in the playoffs. Wade is probably one of the 3 or 4 most accomplished playoff and big game players already in the league and it isn't just because he's had Shaq.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jan 20 2007, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>LMAO this is the sh*t I was talking about last night with you. You make the handcheck era seem like it was a totally different time and you could fu*king tackel players. If AI was a 30PPG scorer in the handcheck era, then Wade would be right where he is now as well. He hasn't always gotten the calls he does now but has always shot a high % and for the past 3 seasons been at or over 24PPG. He is much better at finishing at the rim than GA, and for that matter anyone else in the league outside of LeBron James. He is a much better man to man defender than you give him credit for, he did a great job on Kobe when he was depended on. Nowhere near a lockdown defender, but still better than GA. Wade is also a much better playmaker and better rebounder. As I said in my 1st post, outside of possibly scoring (where you yourself have said GA is really, really inconsistent) Wade takes just about every category. And give me the guy who has come up way more clutch in big game situations than GA ever has. Yes, GA hasn't had as many oppertunities as Wade, but LeBron totally bitched him out in the playoffs. Wade is probably one of the 3 or 4 most accomplished playoff and big game players already in the league and it isn't just because he's had Shaq.</div> You're still saying he's a better playmaker and rebounder than Arenas. Arenas does what he needs to do to win, he's said it many times that he can go out and score 50 points a night but he wants to win! Gilbert has been slowing down on scoring due to his shoulder and is as a result setting up plays and rebounding MUCH more often. Besides this season gil's shooting average has gone down the past 2-3 weeks due to him playing through a hurt shoulder. Gilbert Arenas is arguabely the strongest PG in the NBA, sure Wade can finish but Arenas can do it just as well. Gilbert's been practicing defense and as of late has been doing a much better job, and we saw this in the Jazz game gaurding Deron Williams not letting him make any amazing shots. Gilbert Arenas's streakiness has gotten much better this year. Gilbert is more clutch than Wade is! During the regular season there are countless times he has won games and during the post season he has also done it a couple times but HE'S ONLY PLAYED 16 PLAYOFF GAMES and still is not that far off wade's game winners. How did LeBron bi*ch him out in the playoffs, oh let me guess, because he missed those freethrows ooooh nooo, Arenas didn't even listen to him, he said htat in the press conference after the game.
[quote name='GArenas' post='267255' date='Jan 21 2007, 12:18 AM']You're still saying he's a better playmaker and rebounder than Arenas.[/quote]Because he is. He's a much better playmaker and racks up more assists despite having less to work with and having ball in his hands less than GA. He's only better at rebounding by a bit, but again, still a better rebounder. He could have shot 50% foir the past 2-3 weeks and still be 3-4% lower than Wade. No, he can't, and mostly every non-biased person who has watched both players will tell you the same thing. Again, Wade is a better defender. Much better off ball defender, and better on ball defender. Just because Arenas has improved in this area doesn't make him better than Wade. GA has had only one truly great playoff moment, and that was game 5 vs the Bulls. He had a better team around him than Bron did but couldn't get his team over the hump. He was shutdown in 2nd round of 04-05 playoffs vs the Heat, shooting 38%, 68% from FT line, and only 23% from 3 (same series that Wade put up 31/8/7 on 54% shooting, all the while sweeping the Wizards despite Shaq not playing half the series, and in games he did play he didn't play well). If he made those free throws the series could have went to 7 games, where Wizards definately had a great shot to win. Bron outplayed him in the clutch in the series, and GA couldn't get series to 7 games. GA is a great clutch player, but until he shows more in playoffs I can't put him above Wade, who carried his team in NCAA torunament, had 2 game winners in first ever playoff series, carried his team in 2nd round of playoffs vs best team in league as a rookie, if not for his injury would have gotten to Finals in 04-05, shot 70% and had over 30PPG through first 5 games against best defensive team in league in the Pistons, and single handedly won the Heat a ring. Add ontop of that what he has done in regular seasons, and I just can't put GA above that.BTW, of course he said Bron didn't get into his head! WTF do you expect him to say?
How would what bron said get into his head at all, it's not like LeBron's the word fo god or something. You do realize that Gilbert is a compeltely different player than 2 YEARS AGO. And what is to say that if he can do it in the regular season he can't do it in the playoffs? You say that he had only one good playoff moment? How about taking the Cavs to OT in game 6? You obviousely have not been watching him play, you have not noticed that every single aspect of his game has improved DRASTICALLY in the past couple of months. Gilbert is known for finishing if you've ever watched the Wizards, I'm sure someone will realize that, sure Wade can get to the line but thats about the full aspect of his game. He has such little range and pretty much plays the rules not hte game. You have absolutely no backup on your facts that Gilbert is a worse play maker/rebounder than Arenas. If Gilbert hadn't hurt his shoulder he'd be shotting above 50%. BTW, gil doesn't show up in the post season right? http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Scori...-1&splitDD=
Wade is the better player....no doubt IMO. Wade is such a more versatile player that Arenas is. Wade is almost as good as a scorer as Arenas is, he is a better rebounder, a better playmaker, he can get to the hole and finish better, and he is a better defender. Arenas is having an amazing season, and im not going to take anything away from him, but Arenas has to prove himself in the playoffs before he can be put on the same level as Wade. If Gilbert could lead his team to a finals appearance this year or to the ECF, I would give him alot more credit.
[quote name='GArenas' post='267281' date='Jan 21 2007, 12:45 AM']How would what bron said get into his head at all, it's not like LeBron's the word fo god or something.[/quote]Well, for starters one of the only times you will ever see GA go 0-2 at the line is when LeBron told him that if he missed it that Bron would win it. Let's say bron had NOTHING to do with it....he still missed 2 very critical free throws that could have help send the series to 7 games. Bron, out of all people, outplayed him in the clutch. You do realize Wade is, also, but all throughout his career he has been very clutch, especially in playoffs, right? Did they win the series, let alone that game?!? No. I have watched about 10-12 Wizards games this year. His scoring is still very streaky, his playmaking is still not at Wade's level, he is dtill not a better rebounder than Wade, nor is he a better defender. Again, jsut because he has improved does NOT mean he is better than Wade. Wade, despite playing in 7 or so less games than GA, has scored more than 40 baskets at the basket than Arenas, and is shooting about 10% better at the rim than Arenas. And outside of 5ft from the basket, Arenas is shooting only 3% better. Want proof? Check the NBA Hotzones at NBA.com. Yes, GA is a more versatile scorer, much more versatile. But Wade is more efficient and consistent game to game. I told you in my 1st post I'd probably give the edge to GA in scoring, but do not tell me he is better at finishing at the basket or getting to the line. Even when Wade never got the calls he gets now he was probably top 2 in league at finishing at the basket (next to Bron). And Wadeved in 05-06 playoffs that when defenses play him loose to prevent driving that he can hit set jumpers from midrange consistently (as seen against Pistons where most of his shots were made outside of the paint). He is not a bad jumpshooter. Average, but not bad. Uh, for one thing, since his rookie season Wade has put up at least 5.2RPG, whereas Arenas has never had a season of more than 4.7RPG. Wade has had a slow rebounding season, but still over half a rebound more per game.Wade is a better playmaker. Period. Since his rookie season he has had more APG every season. Not to mention this year, with considerably less to work with than Arenas, and with ball in his hands probably less than Arenas, he has nearly 2APG more. Wade is a FANTASTIC playmaker, clearly better than Arenas. Watch Wade play and pay attention to his playmaking and passing ability, you'll be surprised. Was he not outplayed in the clutch in that series? Did he not have better players around him than James? Did James not average more PPG, APG, RPG and shoot a better %? Did he not miss those 2 free throws to possibily send it to a game 7? And as great as GA was in that series, look at what Wade did against Pistons and Mavs, both statistically and in clutch and when his team needed him to carry them on his back.
Well, GArenas, don't know if you're watching the Dallas game, but Wade is proving and showing why he is a better playmaker than Arenas, and that he isn't totally one dimensional as a scorer.
He didn't choke. He was injured nearly the whole game but still had 12pts and 4ast in the final 14min of the game against what many call one of the best defenses in the league. Haslem clanking 2 free throws, Walker making bad plays, and Williams missing a free throw, all in the finals few minutes, is what killed the Heat.
How about the two free throws Wade missed? I was suprised that Williams missed one, but anyone could pretty much tell that Haslem is at best a decent free throw shooter. Also, judging by www.82games.com, Arenas means more to his team than Wade does. When Wade is on the court, his team is +1.1. When he is off the court, his team is -14.8. When ARENAS is on the court, his team is +6.3. Whe he is off the court, his team -24.7. Wade and Arenas also play pretty much the exact number of minutes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Jan 21 2007, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How about the two free throws Wade missed? I was suprised that Williams missed one, but anyone could pretty much tell that Haslem is at best a decent free throw shooter. Also, judging by www.82games.com, Arenas means more to his team than Wade does. When Wade is on the court, his team is +1.1. When he is off the court, his team is -14.8. When ARENAS is on the court, his team is +6.3. Whe he is off the court, his team -24.7. Wade and Arenas also play pretty much the exact number of minutes.</div>That was early in the 3rd quarter. All those things I listed happenned in the last 4 minutes or so.That is a bit misleading. They both mean just as much to their team, but Wade has much less to work with this year. No one has been consistent, everyone has been injured, and the coaching position is questioned. Meanwhile Arenas has had consistent play from role players, and 2 all star caliber players in Butler and Jamison. Heat are 0-6 without Wade this season.
Lol, Gil has had a shoulder injury the past 3 weeks, he's hit 2 game winners since then so don't gimme the he's injured excuse. Arenas hasn't been out, and he's been injured so we don't know what our record would be without him....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jan 21 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lol, Gil has had a shoulder injury the past 3 weeks, he's hit 2 game winners since then so don't gimme the he's injured excuse. Arenas hasn't been out, and he's been injured so we don't know what our record would be without him....</div>I'm not using it as an excuse liek you use GA's shoulder for his 43% shooting, bottom line is he did miss a 3 to tie game. But Wade certainly showed up when it counted, having a great end of 3rd quarter and 4th quarter (tying game on multiple occasions, even hitting a 3 right in defenses face, making plays for teammates, etc..), and his teammates didn't show up (first half missing a ton of open shots Wade got them, including a missed dunk by Haslem, and then in last 5min of 4th his teammates were crap). He led his team to a near defeat of the best team in the NBA, going for 31/6/6 on 12-21 shooting, no Shaq or Riley, and scoring by nearly all jumpshots which many consider his weakness. Arenas' shoulder is fine. Much easier to work through than what Wade has gone through this season, and the fact that he hasn't rested at ALL since the offseason during the summer of '05 (also why LeBron hasn't quite been himself). This is my last post on this subject. Bottom line is the ONLY thing Arenas has on Wade is scoring and clutch ability during the regular season. Wade is a better playmaker, rebounder, defender (which is, afterall, half the game), and clutch player in playoffs.
You can't keep saying that Wade is more clutch in the playoffs while Arenas is more clutch during the regular season. What makes you think he can't do what he does during the regular season in the playoffs?
Becuase he has done nothing to prove to me he can. He hit one game winner against Bulls 2 years ago, then followed it up with a bad series vs the heat where Wade totally outplayed him and swept the Wiz. Against the Cavs Arenas was outplayed by Bron, both statistically and in the clutch. Say what you want about GA hitting the 3 to send it into OT in game 6, but he still missed those 2 clutch free throws after Bron talked to him. He couldn't get the series to 7 games, despite having better surrounding cast than Bron and having oppertunities in clutch situations. And in 04-05 he shot below 39% in both series'. And again, it isn't like we are comparing GA in clutch and playoffs to Pierce or KG. We are comparing him to Wade, who is one of the most accomplished players in playoffs and in clutch that is in the league. Outside of Kobe, Duncan and Shaq, you'll have a very hard time finding a player who is more impressive in the postseason.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jan 21 2007, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Becuase he has done nothing to prove to me he can. He hit one game winner against Bulls 2 years ago, then followed it up with a bad series vs the heat where Wade totally outplayed him and swept the Wiz. Against the Cavs Arenas was outplayed by Bron, both statistically and in the clutch. Say what you want about GA hitting the 3 to send it into OT in game 6, but he still missed those 2 clutch free throws after Bron talked to him. He couldn't get the series to 7 games, despite having better surrounding cast than Bron and having oppertunities in clutch situations. And in 04-05 he shot below 39% in both series'. And again, it isn't like we are comparing GA in clutch and playoffs to Pierce or KG. We are comparing him to Wade, who is one of the most accomplished players in playoffs and in clutch that is in the league. Outside of Kobe, Duncan and Shaq, you'll have a very hard time finding a player who is more impressive in the postseason.</div>Hmmm.... :g: Not from what I saw this last post season hahahahaha :HAHAHA:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (STAT @ Jan 24 2007, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm.... :g: Not from what I saw this last post season hahahahaha :HAHAHA:</div>Uh ohBitter about Shaq destroying the phoenix suns in 2000?But I doubt you even followed the suns in 2000.
