That was more than just a simple gaffe, which Biden is famous for. Biden was clearly out of it, on his Jurassic feet, there. Showing why we don't need old people running this country anymore. I don't care who anyone else votes for. Me, I am unable to vote for evil. So I could never vote for Trump nor Biden, ever. In fact, American politics have been so corrupted that, I don't currently see even one politician in America that I could ever vote for.
I agree 100% about your age concerns for a position such as the president of the United States. I also agree that we should not support evil. That brings to mind an interesting question... If you refuse to take action to limit evil does that make you better or worse than those who enable or encourage evil?
How do you "take action" against evil, when evil is your... only choice? Oregon is worth so few electoral points. Presidential candidates who campaign in Oregon are already on their way to California before the wheels on their planes even cool off, and we all know it. Because, Oregon never tips the scale one way or the other in a presidential election. So it isn't worth their time spent wasted here. Lastly. Flipping the narrative to place blame on those who didn't vote, away from those who did vote for candidates who are evil, is illogical. Blame those who voted for evil, not those who can see the evil and choose not to vote for them. That doesn't seem to have been your intention though, from what I can see. But that is the way I see it.
It's a question that I struggle with. If you don't vote your intentions aren't counted. I voted for Bernie Sanders against Trump because I wanted it on the record that a vote that could have gone left for the leading candidate didn't. And after that the DNC actually made changes. Not enough, but it did help force change. There's no question that Biden is less evil than Trump. Trump turned out to be even more evil than I thought he could be. However, I see your point that supporting the candidate that "they" want us to simply because "they" gave us a candidate as shitty as Trump also makes me feel played. Under Trump I actually saw what appeared to be the beginning of the end of any semblance of democracy in the United States of America. That was terrifying. And I will vote against that as strongly as possible every time. As much as I dislike Biden, he doesn't represent the end of democracy.
Agree with Road Ratt, both sides are so evil, neither get my vote. Voting for one or the other is like deciding how I want to kill my great grandchildren. With poison or fire. Hint, I do not want to kill my great grandchildren. I want to build a better future for them. I do not trust either side. All of them are shoveling smoke.
In a democracy we can debate policy differences and try to change bad policies. And strengthen good ones. Biden has bad policy on Gaza. He has much better ones on unions and civil rights. One candidate is for democracy and one wants to end it (along with all civil rights, labor and environmental gains from 1930s on). That is not equivalent. I find it interesting but unsurprising that Road Ratt wants to be treated with consideration due to his disability. He can't always control his emotions or what he posts. But he is merciless about Biden's non-existent dementia, the only evidence for dementia is essentially Trump says so. Actually I can't understand how Biden can be so deep in dementia he can't tie his shoes (again no evidence) and also be evil mastermind destroying the world.
A democracy that leaves Americans on our sidewalks while the vast majority of Americans, and polls prove this point, believe that they shouldn't be there, isn't a democracy in the first place, imo. If democracy means going to fight in a war to come home to growing homelessness across America, growing more and more homeless, even under Biden. Biden didn't get Americans universal health care, so 50-60 thousand Americans go to their graves prematurely every year. I could go on and on. But as long as we all get to overlook America's problems in every debate, we can literally make America out to be whatever we wish it to be, not what it currently is. My point is: If this is democracy, than people have a poor sense of how a democracy is suppose to work. In my opinion, we don't live in a democracy if our government can ignore the will of it's own citizens. We don't live in a democracy if we throw America's money at our military while Americans sit on our sidewalks, our schools need money, our infrastructure is crumbling, we all drink bottled water because our water system is older than I am. Etc., etc. etc. . But it seems pointing out our failing as a country somehow never matters. My point again is: America is a flaming turd on a stick. It didn't get in this condition because of just one party. Therefore, just blaming one party, or one person for America's "failing" democracy, is wrong thinking. And is simply deflecting blame. If both the democrats and republicans can just shift blame, as they wish, they already debate from a fantasy world of their own making. Rose colored glasses and all. Yes, Trump scared the hell out of me too. But, Biden scares me just as much while he looks away from America's problems to serve... his donors wishes over Americans wishes. I think people need to ask themselves who our democracy is working for. It certainly isn't working for the homeless that even democrats are banning. Banned for being homeless, that is heartless. Personally I don't believe America is even a humane country, much less a democracy. Alright. I am not sure where to go from here without beating a dead horse on the issue. Take 'er easy.
I'm not blaming one party over another. I really don't like either party. We can change those problems by voting for quality representatives. That's what a representative democracy is.
If voting to change those problems worked, in the first place, your point might be valid. And we would both have nothing to debate here, as well. But when those changes don't happen even after we vote for a democrat or a republican. Than your point seems to have to no valid leg to stand on, that I can see. You can't make any change at all, if neither party actually... makes the changes. Personally I think I already showed why we don't even live in a functional democracy now, as it is. And yet it didn't seem to land. Like I said, beating a dead horse from here, my friend.
Change doesn't happen all at once in America. That is deliberate, and possibly the biggest reason our democracy survived Trump. However, supporting Bernie Sanders did force positive change within the DNC. Electing Obama did bring with it some positive change for many poor people, as well as same sex couples. Those changes happened as a result of a functioning democracy. We need to do better, absolutely. But we do have a functioning democracy.
Voting works. Change does happen. Maybe not as quickly as anyone would like, but there aren't slaves anymore (at least not as many). Women have the right to vote now. Etc etc. And on the flip side, abortion rights are gone because sufficient people voted for Trump to get him elected. Change - one direction or the other - will happen as a result of this election. It might not be as extreme as partisans on either side want, but change will happen. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise, but the world will go on turning without you in that case. barfo
My point keeps getting ignored while my posts get turned into a new angle of debate. Neither of us are using links, just our own logic. Which seems to leave us at a push here. This is why I am saying: beating a dead horse guys. If you can logically show me where it is fine for our president and government to ignore Americans, while our oligarchy takes home record profits and Americans sit on our sidewalks. I will listen. But as is, you are arguing for homelessness, underfunded schools, underfunded infrastructure, etc. . And yet, don't even seem to realize it. Please use a logical argument next time. I am done here.
Some of us this November will vote for less homelessness, less underfunded schools, and less underfunded infrastructure. Some of us this November will vote for more of those things. Some of us will refuse to admit that it makes a difference whether there are less of those things or more of those things. barfo
I agree with much of what you've expressed and I voted for the third party candidate in th 2016 election. Now the landscape is completely different but Joe Biden is a hawk and Trump is a crook...the vote this time around is a vote for either tolerance and civil rights and social services or intolerance and authoritarian rule where church and state ar one and the press is muzzled. Choices are clear even though both have warts...one is much more malignant. The descriptor would be the vastly lesser of two evils, not that they aren't both evil.
Let's see. Coal fired plants now need to capture emissions or be shut down. Federal government agencies cannot discriminate against LGBTQ people. Women in the military can take leave if they need reproductive health care including abortion. Millions of dollars of student loan debt cancelled. Trump didn't and wouldn't.
Therein lies the problem. As an autistic person, I cannot vote for evil. Never will be able to. I find it hard to see how anyone, who is supposedly a patriotic American, could. The argument, others are using, that we must all hold our noses and pick the lesser of two evils. Equates in my head to: you must vote democrat! Which is an illogical argument, as evil is evil. There truly is no lesser of the two. That would be like saying: The guy who only killed his wife, is lesser of the two evils when compared to the guy who killed his wife, then proceeded to kill the rest of his entire family too. Which, I would hope everyone can see, is an illogical argument. People can vote for their evil. But I simply can't.
There is a difference between an ocean and a drop of water, even though they are both wet. There is a difference between a guy who swats a fly and Hitler, even though they both killed living beings. There is a difference between eating one Cheeto and eating the entire bag, even though they are both disgusting. barfo
Nobody in this conversation is arguing for any of those things. You applying that position to people who do not hold that position is not conducive to productive conversation. It isn't that the conversation cannot be productive (as you seem to be claiming), rather that you are refusing to engage in conversation in a productive manner, in favor of apparently ignoring the issue all together. If so, that's unfortunate.
