I guess I really needed some green font here. I am aware of the basic facts. Was poking fun at all these Republicans and the Republican-dominated states that are easing up on simple restrictions that really help to curb the spread of COVID. You can’t save people from themselves. If you remove mask mandates in states, many people are going to not wear masks. I realize I’m being fairly general here, but it’s mostly Republicans and Republican-dominated states fighting back on mask mandates.
Saw this on the twitter, applies equally to S2: "Twitter is interesting because most people labeled “centrist” on this site are in real life just progressive Dems with an understanding of the legislative process and a pragmatic view on how to achieve policy goals." barfo
I've always felt that there are (at least) two axis when it comes to defining one's political views. There's the typical conservative vs. liberal axis (which is, itself, something that a lot of people would disagree with as a 2D axis) and then there's the revolutionary vs. pragmatic axis. Often times, people confuse, say, progressive with revolutionary. If you don't demand single-payer health care or nothing, you're not really progressive. You can believe in single-payer health care but recognize it's not possible politically right now so want move health care in the right direction even if not as far as one would like. The first perspective is "revolutionary progressive" and the second perspective is "pragmatic progressive." IMO, the liberal/conservative axis is what you believe in and the revolutionary/pragmatic axis is your tactical disposition to achieve your beliefs. Granted, these axes aren't 100% independent--I'm not sure you can be a revolutionary centrist.
Yep, I'm reluctantly in the pragmatic progressive camp. Reluctant because I want more but pragmatic because I know you can only achieve so much. Baby steps but in the right direction. As long as I see progress I'm happy.
It seems to me that he's closer to a republican than he is a progressive and doesn't want to piss off his donors too much.
But people like that are why Bernie Sanders isn't president. Rather than voting for somebody who would actually push hard for progressive policies they make excuses not to. In a negotiation, if you ask for exactly what you want you'll always receive less.
Bernie isn't president because he couldn't get as many votes as Hillary or Joe. It's literally that simple. People vote for - or against - candidates for all sorts of reasons. So, if Bernie were President, would Joe Manchin be more progressive? I'm open to arguments why he would, but I don't immediately see it. barfo
Yep, that's correct. Because people are convinced to vote against their own interests, with the help of a bought and paid for DNC. Joe Manchin would have far more pressure applied to him if Bernie Sanders were president. No question about it.
Not sure what you mean? Joe Manchin is voting against his own interests? I'd say he is voting very selfishly for his own interests, against the interests of his voters, his party, and his country. Edit: oh, sorry, I think you meant that the voters who voted for someone other than Bernie were voting against their own interests. That should have been obvious to me. I'm just not sure that's true, or, even if it was true, that it would have any effect. Why do you think Bernie pressuring Manchin would result in Manchin caving? What power does Bernie have over Manchin that Biden doesn't? barfo
That's the thing. Biden has the power to push public opinion against Manchin if he doesn't support the policy. He's choosing not to use it. Trump used that power incredibly effectively, and Bernie would use it as well.
Trump used the power effectively against his own party members - and ineffectively against the American people - as he lost the presidency and his party lost the senate and house because of his tactics. I would argue that Biden, smartly, is working not to lose the support of the American people by trying to find a compromise that works for many people. I think Bernie makes a lot of sense in his suggested policies - but Biden makes more sense in his ability to recognize the physics of the situation. The USA is a big big boat to turn around and Biden is starting the process of turning it - where Bernie wants to treat it like a whitewater raft. I am going to argue that Biden's ability to recognize the physics will lead, in time, to the direction Bernie preaches for.
The party members are the problem. Not the American people. The American people are not going turn against a president for forcing the enactment of popular legislation... Biden forcing that legislation through early in his presidency would show that its good for most Americans without costing most Americans more money. Trump did it to force unpopular legislation, AND STILL KEPT HIS BASE!
Every registered voter can vote in the Democratic primaries. I would argue that if the American people were so gung ho about Bernie - they would have done so and won him the nomination. Given that they were not - the party members that elected Biden over Bernie seem like a good representation of the American people. But, as mentioned before, lost the general elections for the presidency and both chambers of the legislative arm of government. Given that, the logical thing for Biden to do is not to follow suit - but do what he believes and what the American people have voted for - both in the primary and the general election - a left leaning centrist.
Actually no. Registered independents cannot vote on many democratic or republican primaries. Just one way the primaries are undemocratic and rigged to consolidate power between two major parties. Which is less competition than pretty much any industry or business in the world. Shocking that a candidate who actually wants to move power from both parties to the people instead would have trouble winning a primary for either party... Again, none of that has anything to do with the fact that forcing through popular legislation would not hurt the democrats. Trump was hurt by forcing through incredibly unpopular legislation and generally being an embareassing and despicable human being.
Sorry, but that is just a silly take. If you say I am not one or the other - do not come and complain you can not vote in their primaries. If Bernie fans want to influence the Democratic primaries - where Bernie runs - they should register as Democrats. It is not an unreasonable idea. Can't have your cake and eat it too. If you are married to the idea that you are not an independent - do not complain about the Democratic party primaries. If you care about what happens there - register as one.
What does he gain by pushing public opinion against Manchin? Manchin is from the reddest state in the country. He doesn't care what people from other states think. He cares whether West Virginians will re-elect him. Can Biden (or Bernie) push WV public opinion against Manchin for not being more progressive? Seems unlikely. The outcome would simply be to make Manchin angry, and to increase the odds of another Republican senator when his term expires. That doesn't help anyone. It's trivial to change registration if one wants to vote in a primary. barfo
A big issue that people don't seem aware of (or ignore for convenience sake) is that all Democrats don't have the same priorities and incentives. If you want to win the Senate, you have to win states that don't tilt towards your party at the national level--which means the only people from your party who can win there are ones who are less like your national party. Obviously. If that state was similar to your national party, you'd win that state at the national level. So Democratic senators from red states are more conservative, often much more conservative, than the national party. The types of pressures that affect the party at a national level don't affect individual Democrats from states that tilt conservative. Manchin doesn't have the same incentives that Chuck Schumer does, or that Joe Biden does. His incentives lie in being just conservative enough to be acceptable to a majority of West Virgians (people from one of the redder states in the nation) and being just liberal enough to be acceptable as a Democrat. Putting "progressive pressure" on Manchin is meaningless--that's not a pressure he experiences. Even the Democrats in West Virginia are not extremely progressive. The progressive activists in other states don't matter even a tiny bit to Manchin. They don't affect his electoral calculus. That's the reality that Biden, Schumer and other elected Democrats have to deal with. Saying "Just put more pressure on him" sounds great, but only if you ignore the political realities at play.
