OT The Lightning Are Banning Some Penguins Fans From Wearing Pittsburgh Gear In Tampa

If you think protection from government is the only reason why we have freedom of speech, I think you would be wrong. It wasn't only the government that the founding fathers were trying to get away from. It was the East India Company too.

 

The Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, are the frame work for our government. Our government can't tell me I can't wear my Blazers gear, but if you're a Clippers fan, you can tell me I can't wear my Blazers gear in your house - your private residence. You own that property, so you get to set the rules.

Same is true for the freedom of speech. The government cannot censor my opinions, but if I go online a start bad mouthing the company I work for, or say other things they they feel damage their brand and negatively impact their profits, they have every right to fire me from their employment. This was the root whole Duck Dynasty "controversy" a couple years ago. The First Amendment guarantees that the US Government cannot censor Phil Robertson's homophobic opinions, but it does not guarantee him the right to host a crappy cable TV show in perpetuity. He's entitled to express those opinions, but he is not entitled to be paid to express them if his employer feels they negatively impact their business.

BNM

 

I get what you're saying, but you're wrong. A company can refuse service to just about anyone, except for things like race, sexual orientation, etc. If someone comes walking into a nice restaurant wearing sweats and smelling like they haven't showered in a week, they can ask them to leave. A business has rights too.

 

You said it better. Well put.

People think that freedom of speech entitles them to do or say whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, to whomever they want.

It simply does not. It was put into place because the founding fathers got tired of being persecuted for disagreeing with the King of England. Freedom of speech allows us to say that we think Obama is horrible, or that Bush was awful, without having to worry about repercussions from the government. That's the whole point of freedom of speech.

 

There is however, a fine line here. If that business is issued a business license by the local government, they must abide by the terms of that license, which usually includes specific language stating that they cannot discriminate based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. Local zoning laws usually also dictate that they must comply with the American's with Disabilities to allow access to their business for people in wheelchairs and with other physical limitations.

This is a good thing as it does help protect peoples basic civil rights. But, it also doesn't give people the right to be complete assholes. I can make you leave my place of business if you are being disruptive and disrespectful to my employees and other customers, but I can't refuse to serve you my crappy fast food chicken, because you're white, gay and/or Presbyterian.

BNM

 

Totally, that's where I was going with that. There is a limit to what a company can do, as there should be.

 

I hope you don't think that that's been my personal stance, because it never has been. I'm one of the people who says that the Second Amendment can be regulated because the first amendment has.

 

BNM nailed it.

It is laughable that those who say homophobic, sexist, misogynist crap and get publicly criticized cry that their "free speech" has been denied. No it hasn't. You have the freedom to say crap and I have the freedom to say it is crap.

There is no right to a platform and no right to be free of criticism or consequences.

Back to the subject - arenas, unless publicly owned, can presumably legally ban people from wearing gear of another team. But I have the freedom to say it is stupid and petty. It's not like carrying profane or abusive signs, or screaming obscenities and threats, which arenas should regulate (ironically often do a poor job).

 

No, definitely not directed at you specifically. I have just seen a lot of people bring up freedom of speech whenever someone does or says something stupid. And most of the time it has no relevancy. The other one that gets brought up a lot is separation of church and state. People seem to have a hard time understanding those two principles.

 

I love this.

 

Are we taking baseball out of Toronto then?

In all seriousness though, hockey in Florida and LA has always bugged me, but since I'm in Texas, I hope Houston gets a team soon

 

When the fuck did anyone say any of that?

 

Not in this thread, MM, I was speaking generally and I've heard it a zillion times. Excuse me, I've heard it the fuck a zillion times.

 

We have also all heard it a zillion times

 

Because MM knows that Crand is actually Meyers Leonard in disguise, and he's doing his best to expose the fraud!

 

Talk about being insecure to the point of absurdity. What an insult to their team.

 

Huh? Ya, I suppose? I'll have to look into that because I certainly don't have an issue with them being gay. As conservative as I am, I believe you are born gay, and it's not a choice.

My issues with Erik are his hyperbolic posts, and being the first to say I told you so. And CrandC with every post seemingly being a platform for some agenda.

So ya, pure coincidence

Maybe you can point out to people that dont like my posts that they have a problem with people with cancer