The off-season begins. Discuss.

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Strenuus, Apr 9, 2023.

  1. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    "Dame Era has run it's course". Uh NO! That's ridiculous. The only teams that get the Blazers a so called HAUL, are the worst teams in the NBA. And they are all rebuilding with youth. Top team's assets for trade, that they would consider trading, are older players with large contracts as well. And their draft capital is end of round 1 fodder. I know you're not the biggest Dame fan, and want to move on. That's alright. But the Tom Foolery of thinking you can get a haul is silly, at best. At 59, I'm enjoying watching the greatest player in franchise history , and look forward to many more euphoric moments going forward. You don't trade generational players , unless that said player demands out like Durant.
     
  2. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    To me it sounded like he was saying that they might have to push forward on one of those deals they “turned down” and “live with the results” because that’s the cost of “trying to win now”.
     
  3. Predator

    Predator The Godfather

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    teams have no reason not to milk us for all they can, so I’m sure Cronin is going to find out quickly that asking costs are gonna be sky high.

    “we know you need to do this or Dame is gonna ask out…”

    And that team still isnt good enough. Treadmill team. Really poor defensively and our GM just said Sharpe and Simons are both 2 guards.
     
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  4. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    I'd find it hard to believe that's the best Joe could do. Danny Ainge, individually, helped the Lakers back to contention. Even if the Blazers don't get Wemby, or the #2 pick to deal for Bridges, i could see lesser deals for OG or Collins available on the lower side. Those players can help the Blazers. I think depth can be had as well with not being a repeater tax team team. Because the Blazers have been bad for multiple years, their future draft capital has a higher value now.
     
  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I didn't attack other posters. What I implied was it's illogical to think Cronin is a bad GM who loses on trades, but should be the one to trade Dame.

    and LOL at the "Dame era has run it's course"
     
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  6. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

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    I'm not suggesting Portland 'dump Dame' (and you don't think I think that—you're just making stuff up).

    I'm not really here for the fan concern over Dame's patience level. It is what it is at this point. He signed a supermax extension with Jody/Bert/Cronin/Chauncey all aboard—eyes wide open. I think we all want the team to accelerate its timeline. But in my opinion the easiest path to contention (actual contention, mind you) for this team is by nailing high draft picks. Period.

    They have less chips than most of the other players at the table; going 'all-in'—based on a clear-eyed look at the marketplace—is a quick trip back to the 4 seed.
     
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  7. tykendo

    tykendo Don't Tread On PDX

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    The Blazers have "less chips". I don't think so, due to the fact , their draft capital will have higher value than current contending teams , because of record alone. I think lots of teams will be moving good player this offseason searching for better fits. Joe & Staff have done a nice job of getting the Blazers in a place to make quality, season changing moves. I'm gonna stay positive. Being negative is too hard on the heart and soul.
     
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  8. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    But it wasn't until yesterday where his verbage has changed. It's all I'm saying. I feel it's ultimatum time with dame even if he has said he's loyal. It's a really weird time and it's been about 5 years in the making.
     
  9. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Lmao. You win!
     
  10. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    You know, perhaps. But he's still a CJ type player so it's not going to be enough IMO. He's not a "get a 2nd star player" type asset in conjunction with the other pieces. He's good, not great.
     
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  11. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

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    Al Jefferson = KG
    3rd pick (Jeff Green)= Ray Allen

    Those trades actually happened and Boston won the title that season. So why not Ant/pick5/Nas for Jaylen Brown?
     
  12. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    That's fair from both you and @AmirIcon . I get it.
     
  13. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Because it takes a really stupid GM to say yes to it? Lol.
     
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  14. AngryFan

    AngryFan Active Member

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    I think their teams were trying to do both those guys a solid by sending them to a team with a chance to contend. I also think values of proven players have changed since then. Gobert, etc go for a kings ransom these days.
     
  15. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    If I have a choice on being Utah in the Gobert trade or Minnesota, I would rather be Utah this summer. I don’t want to see our team pay through the nose for a guy that might not even move the needle for us.

    Is Joe capable of getting a Gobert haul for Dame? I have my doubts. I think it’s more likely that he’s the dude who sells the farm to get a marginal upgrade like Gobert.
     
  16. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    Okay, I'll play along. I don't think the "Dame era" has run it's course, but what about it has been that great of an "era" from a team standpoint? Great individual numbers, but from a team standpoint, it has been almost entirely mediocrity. One Western Conference Finals appearance with 0 game wins, and we got there because Ant usurped Stotts intentions and we ended up beating the dysfunctional Thunder and the baby Nuggets. On the other side, we were swept as a #3 seed, and swept out of the majority of Playoff appearances we were in. We are sub .500 3 of the last 4 years. That is not to say it is Dame's fault, but if it is his era, than that is the history of it. He has had some miraculous, thrilling individual moments, but in terms of team results during that era, what exactly are we holding on to if that "era" happens to be finished?

    We have averaged a #7 finish in 11 seasons. We have an average of 2 Playoff wins per season during that time. What is there to cling to so tightly? We all have a different view of what we want for the Blazers. Some are content with it just being entertainment regardless of outcome. Some people are happy with a contender once or twice in their lifetime as a memory. Some people want a contender much more often. I am somewhere in the middle. I enjoy the entertainment, but at some point after seeing the basically the same thing over and over again, would like something new and preferably better if it hasn't been great.

    It's been since 2000 since this franchise has a Conference Finals win, so it doesn't seem like I'm pressing too hard to look to the next generation or "era" as it's been since when Watford and Little were born that we were a contender. This is not placing blame on any one player, coach, or front office person. Just ready for something different and hoping for something better. Given out #8, #6, #13, #13 finishes in the last 4 seasons, that doesn't seem to be going too far out on a limb.
     
  17. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    What do we have to cling to? The clutchest player in Blazer history. Surely that deserves a proper roster.
     
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  18. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Also add that I disagree that with some people saying that Dame presents our best chance at winning a ring.

    Dame by himself will never be enough to win a ring. We know this because we have seen it time and time again. Dame isn't good enough to will us to a series victory. He needs help. Is there a path to put enough talent around Dame to win a ring before he's past his prime? It is seeming very unlikely.

    What teams have won a ring after quickly putting together a roster of superstars in recent memory? Here are the champs from the past 20 years:

    Warriors - drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond
    Bucks - drafted Giannis and developed Middleton after trading for him at 22 years old.
    Lakers - signed LeBron and traded for AD.
    Raptors - traded for Kawhi with an already complete team.
    Warriors - drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond and signed Durant
    Warriors - drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond and signed Durant
    Cavs - signed LeBron, drafted Kyrie, traded for Love
    Warriors - drafted Curry, Klay, Draymond
    Spurs - drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu, and traded for rookie Kawhi.
    Heat - drafted Wade, signed LeBron and Bosh
    Heat - drafted Wade, signed LeBron and Bosh
    Mavs - drafted Dirk, traded for Kidd
    Lakers - drafted Kobe, traded for Pau
    Lakers - drafted Kobe, traded for Pau
    Celtics - drafted Pierce, traded for Garnett and Allen.
    Spurs - drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu
    Heat - drafted Wade, traded for Shaq
    Spurs - drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu
    Pistons - acquired Billups, Sheed, Ben, Hamilton
    Spurs - drafted Duncan, Parker, Manu

    So which scenario from the past 20 years would fit our current situation?

    The Raptors? Who is our Siakim? Who are we going to get on Kawhi's level?
    The Bucks? Okay, let's so we're able to go get an equivalent to Jrue, who is our Middleton? is it Grant or Simons?
    The Mavs? Are they a good comparison to our current situation? An aging superstar player who still has something left in the tank. Okay, let's go with the Mavs. What did their roster look like the year that they won?

    Dirk
    Kidd
    Jason Terry
    Caron Butler
    Shawn Marion
    Tyson Chandler
    JJ Barea
    Peja Stojakovic
    Brendan Haywood

    Can we build a team of veteran players who can defend in a matter of a couple years? Probably not. So maybe the Celtics with Pierce are a better comparison? Who is going to be our Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen?

    Most of the teams who have won in the past 20 years either drafted their superstars (Warriors, Bucks, Lakers, Spurs) or they had LeBron decide to go there and they added pieces. The chances of us pulling off what the Mavs or Celtics did is very very slim. Yes, Dame is the best Blazer of all time, but do we have better odds of putting a championship team around him or do we have better odds building around Sharpe and our lottery pick? Get the huge contractors off our team and try to make a run. I'd love to get Vegas' odds on either direction.
     
  19. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    How do you get one of those in short order?
     
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  20. AngryFan

    AngryFan Active Member

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    What that list really shows is that the Blazers need a top 5 player. It sucks but I think it is going to take going all in and having it blow up in our face for fans to realize that Dame isn't on the level of the guys that lead their teams to championships.
     
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